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time to create a polytheistic religion with 3 gods; Adonai, God, and Allah… it’ll unify those three religions into being confused and uncomfortable about my religion.
I call it the Tyrant god.
Oh look, a circle jerk.
rELiGiOn bAD!
They don’t all believe in the same God though. Jews and Christians sort of do, only in part. They at least share the old testament. Muslims have a totally different God though, and totally different texts.
they all technically believe in the same God, in one version said god has a son who sacrificed himself, then Muslims built on that as well.
even though the “vibe” and lore of each God is different, technically they are all the same entity.
It is fundamentally the same Abrahamic god, but Christians believe in Jesus and the Trinity stuff while Muslims do not.
Muslims believe in Jesus
Christians believe Jesus is god and have a Trinity thing going on.
Jews and Muslims have an entirely different concept of god than modern day Christians.
There is at least one Christian religion that believes Jesus is below God, while believing he is the Messiah, Gods son, and much of the rest of the Christian beliefs (Jehovah’s Witnesses). They don’t believe in the Trinity. Holy Ghost/Spirit is just a tool like the force to them, not a distinct person
It’s all about who the most important prophet is, and anyone that disagrees is wrong and we hate them.
Religion is wild.
To be a bit pedantic but Christians don’t believe Jesus was a prophet.
Matthew 21:11
And the crowds replied, “This is Jesus the prophet, from Nazareth in Galilee.”
Context is key I may have done 12 years of theological studies but I’ll be using AI to summarize this
John 8:58: This verse is found in the Gospel of John, where Jesus makes the statement “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” Moses and Exodus 3:14: In the Old Testament, God revealed Himself to Moses in a burning bush, declaring, “I AM THAT I AM.” This name, often translated as “I am who I am” or “I will be who I will be,” is a declaration of God’s eternal and self-existent nature, says the Bible Gateway. Jesus’s Claim: By saying “before Abraham was, I AM,” Jesus is claiming to be the same eternal, self-existent God who revealed Himself to Moses. Context: The statement is made in the context of a discussion with Jewish leaders who were disputing his authority. Implications: This verse is a central pillar of Christian theology, affirming Jesus’s divinity and eternal nature. The Jews’ Reaction: The people who heard Jesus make this claim were shocked and disturbed, understanding that it was a direct challenge to their understanding of God’s identity.
This is what makes him not a prophet.
I don’t see how you’ve made your point here. Jesus being a prophet isn’t mutually exclusive with his being the son of god, or so it would seem to a layperson like myself. If he can be the father, the son, and the holy ghost, it stands to reason he can be a prophet. Lots of hats, I believe he wore.
The key point that I’m trying to make here though is that all of the Jewish profits foretold of the Christ and he was the Christ as far as all the Christians see it. However, all of the Jews and islamists would call him a prophet as they do not believe that he was the Christ.
“Prophet” has a specific meaning, it’s not just a soothsayer. Prophecy is tied to the ends of eras, and for the Semitic people, most of their history was, at that point, servitude of one form or another, punctuated by suffering and occasionally vengeful conquest. The Jewish Prophets fortold the Messiah, who would lead them from suffering to paradise.
Christ, in Christian theology, upended that order. He said he was the new Law, and the only way to God was through him. He was pretty clear on the subject. It didn’t take long before new Prophecies came about - but now, the people of God weren’t just a specific tribe, they were potentially the whole species. So the prophecies had to be Apocalyptic.
Christ wasn’t a Prophet. He brought God’s message (according to him and his fans), but he didn’t say jack about the End Times.
Ok, so maybe (depending on the mythology one subscribes to) he wasn’t a Prophet. Nevertheless, it seems inarguable that he was a prophet. Dude was mad prophetic.
Thanks for your insight, I will study knto that topic deeper. I duckduckgoed whether Jesus was a prophet and that passage was what I found. I think the main argument for prophecy was that he was making grandeous statements about the future that were fulfilled, thus he fits the definition. But I’m just a casual reader and could be wrong.
I think in the context of this thread it’s amazing we could come up with two differing views so quickly.
See my reply to ochi in the other thread. Note I was raised Orthodox and from what I understand, reformist Christian sects do not place as much emphasis on the Trinity
Really? I’m no expert, but I wouldn’t think being the son of god excluded being a prophet.
The whole point of the holy Trinity is that Jesus is God not separate
My personal head Cannon is that God is nth dimensional programmer /scientist and our universe is equivalent to a simulation running on his computer. He built this place. Gave the people some rolls and was flabbergasted that they continually fucked it up and didn’t listen to the rules. So then he basically uploads himself to The matrix lives for 30 years experiences humanity and realizes that we are fundamentally fucked and forgives us after merging that slice of his consciousness back into the main consciousness.
Old English Crīst, from Latin Christus, from Greek Khristos, noun use of an adjective meaning ‘anointed’, from khriein ‘anoint’, translating Hebrew māšīaḥ ‘Messiah’
I would argue that Jesus, as Christ/Messiah is also a priest and prophet, thus fulfilling all of the various other prophecies about Him. He is these things and more: God’s decisive revelation of Himself to humanity, as well as one who redefines what humanity fundamentally is.
The reason why Christians have a tense relationship with the other “Abrahamic faiths” has to do with the understanding that Jesus is God. To deny Jesus’ divinity, from a Christian standpoint, is to define God apart from Jesus which is not consistent with Christian belief. The other problem comes from the idea (more or less later introduced into Christianity) that anyone who doesn’t believe in Jesus goes to Hell. This idea, so deeply held by many many Christians, actually misses what the gospel is all about: the minute Jesus forgives His murderers, He effectively declares that there’s no sin beyond His ability to forgive. Which means that all of humanity is forgiven, full stop.
Eastern (Orthodox) Christianity has a very interesting and different view: Hell and Heaven are the same place, just experienced differently—“Heaven” for those who love God on His terms, “Hell” for those who demand God behave on their terms. The basic idea there is that, in the end, most people will come face to face with Jesus and go “oh, it’s you! Cool!” and experience Heaven. But there are those who will see Him and still refuse (at least for a time—I believe that the scriptures are pretty clear that God is merciful and patient and that, given enough time, everyone winds up in “Heaven”).
destroy all abrahamic religions for the future of humanity
if only
but didn’t he free the slaves?
happy Pesach and all that
Jews don’t give a shit, it’s the Christian’s and Muslims who make the wars
Umm. Palestine?
Oh right. Not a war. Just a genocide.
zionism is at best a seller settler colonial project with a crude façade of “religion”.
So many jews denounce it,
i get it that you can point to extremists in any group and it shouldn’t be used as a case to demonize the whole religion.
not all Muslims are terrorists, same way that not all Christians are MAGA, or all Jews are Zionists.
those extremists will bend whatever faith system they gave access to to fuel their violence.
100% true lol
Muslims aren’t supposed to care, they’re supposed to view the other two as “almost Muslim”
Actually the hate is mutual. Muslims hate Christians and Jews, but Jews deffinetly hate Muslims and Christians and Christians hate Muslims and Jews. Abrahamic religions are the doom of the humanity.
Al-andaluz my beloved
Wait until you hear about Christians’ conflicts with other Christians! Also a lot of Islamist terror is directed at Muslims who follow Mohammed’s teachings the wrong way.
Was flabbergasted when I found out that there was a straight up murderous hate between different sets of Christianity. You can tell the book is the perfect word of a divine being, since it spawned so many different mutually exclusive interpretations
Honestly, God designed the bible, not so much that it would have many different interpretations, but that certain truths would be hidden from those that do not belong to Him. Just like when Jesus told parables, they weren’t understandable by everyone for the same reason.
There have been actual crusades inside europe against the ‘wrong’ type of christians
I dont think any Christian who has a sliver of religious education considers the bible to be the word of God. For starters some of the Gospels that are canon already start with an explanation that this is a recollected account. Then there is other chapters like the letters to the Romans and so on. As for the Torah it is also clear that it is containing some revelations but also a lot of interpretation and chronicles.
This is fundamentally different to the Quran, which we Muslims believe to be the word of God as revealed to the prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing be upon him) and preserved in full and in the original Arabic language. Also Muslims are obliged to treat Christians and Jews (people of the book) kindly and respectfully, unless persecuted or attacked by them.
There are hundreds (likely actually thousands) of Christian denominations:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations
Gonna need a lot more arms.
Doesn’t Islam also have multiple different sub-cults within that hate eachothers?
It’s more like the whole Muslim world vs Iran/Iraq
Sunni and Shia are not a 70s pop duo.
Islam isn’t unique in that way. The history of Christianity is just various groups fighting over how to believe correctly.
Absolutely
There’s nothing Christians/Muslims/Jews hate more than slightly different variety of Christians/Muslims/Jews. The other 2 are far behind.
I was told by nuns in catholic school that we had more in common with Jews than with Lutherans.
Guess leftists had to learn it from someone.
The denomination wars are real
The Dome of the Rock seems to be claimed by all three. Abraham attempted to sacrifice his son there, before he was stopped. Muhammed’s ascent to heaven took place there (figuratively, not literally), and Jesus threw the moneymen out of the temple at that location.
I always wondered what is so special about that location.
Islam and Judaism: this place is holy for important religious reasons
Christianity: this place rocks because Jesus beat up greedy capitalists.
Muhammed’s ascent to heaven took place there (figuratively, not literally)
Just looked it up, Muhammed died in Medina. I kind of assumed he died somewhere in the the vicinity of Jerusalem and that’s why his name is connected with the Dome of the Rock
The Dome of The Rock isn’t just a nickname for Dwayne Johnson’s head?
Jews don’t really hate anyone for not believing in their God. Unlike Christianity and Islam, Jews don’t believe that everyone has to follow their religion. They don’t really believe in Heaven and Hell, and they don’t proselytize to people who aren’t already Jews. Judaism is for the Jewish people and that’s it.
Gittin 57a:3-4
“Onkelos then went and raised Jesus the Nazarene from the grave through necromancy… What is the punishment of that man, a euphemism for Jesus himself, in the next world? Jesus said to him: He is punished with boiling excrement. As the Master said: Anyone who mocks the words of the Sages will be sentenced to boiling excrement. And this was his sin, as he mocked the words of the Sages. The Gemara comments: Come and see the difference between the sinners of Israel and the prophets of the nations of the world."Damn, that’s crazy. I’ve never heard of this. Got any other cool, obscure “scripture?”
Edit: after looking it up, I think the part right after is just as interesting:
The Gemara comments: Come and see the difference between the sinners of Israel and the prophets of the nations of the world. As Balaam, who was a prophet, wished Israel harm, whereas Jesus the Nazarene, who was a Jewish sinner, sought their well-being.
I’m curious: why do you think it’s more interesting, and why do you think the writers made a difference?
I ask this in good faith (even though I’m an atheist), as I have my own interpretation of this topic and would be keen to know yours.
I said “just as interesting,” to be a bit pedantic. But it’s interesting because I grew up a crazy form of fundamentalist Christian, which involved a lot of fuzzy support for Judaism, by definition, as well as political support based on Israel, because…uh…God or something.
But this portion, referring to Jesus as a sinner, would cause conniptions in any evangelical church. But the idea of Jesus as a sinner is far more interesting than a perfect Jesus. Like Batman vs. Superman.
No, but a key tenet is the belief that Jews have a “higher purpose” in life than gentiles, and unfortunately this manifests as ethno-religious supremacy in the more conservative circles. A lot of the rhetoric surrounding Gaza is that Jews have a biblical right to the land over…the people that actually live there.
maybe I’m naive but that concept “or la’olam” translates to " light to the world"
i grew up thinking it meant that we have the obligation to be a source of good to the world, like we don’t have a responsibility to be good to ourselves but to the whole world, we need to become scientists, engineers, … we aren’t superior to anyone, but we’ve been chosen to dedicate our lives to improve the world.
however in many conservatives circles that is interpreted as being superior and that everyone else will eventually accept it and they will willingly become our slaves. it’s insane how the same concept is interpreted so differently.
Well, it is true that unlike other religions, Jews don’t try to necessarily recruit new people, They do try to recruit non-religious Jewish people into religion, which is still bad. And the Jewish religion still has a bunch of terrible, racist, misogynistic and overall just terrible beliefs that are inherent to the religion. And there are still a bunch of Jews who just hate all other religions, especially Orthodox Jews.
Interesting. That’s almost the opposite of Baha’is. Baha’is don’t proselytize because everyone is a Baha’i. They just haven’t discovered it for themselves yet, and they have to do that, it’s not the job of the Baha’is to do anything but live the best way they can. Their “Kingdom of God,” or afterlife is also distinctly different from the concept of Heaven and Hell as well.
christians learned their lesson after the crusades. muslims are currently on their way of learning it
This is a really poor understanding of the crusades as well as religious violence in general.
please educate me on religious violence
Well for starts the crusades were about more than just religion, and it’s pretty obvious that they weren’t the end of Christian religious violence and that nobody “learned their lesson” from them.
were about more than just religion
of course but they also were about religion
they weren’t the end of Christian religious violence
I’d say they were the epitome of christian violence (against non-christians) and from then on it decreased overall
nobody “learned their lesson” from them
after enough of the desasters that were the crusades they stopped doing them altogether
are you kidding me? do you have any idea what they did in the name of the lord to the indigenous people of the new world throughout the 14th century onwards??
Number of deaths in the crusades- 1,000,000
Number of deaths in the colonization of the Americas- 59,000,000+
dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb
Ask Jews and Muslims if they believe in the trinity. It’s not the same god.
They all claim to believe in the god of Abraham so they are stuck with each other while disagreeing on fundamental stuff.
that’s like saying Toby Maguire and Tom Holland are Spiderman.
yes, they both are the same character, but different interpretations made by different people with different contexts.
this is the dumbest thing I’ve said which I think is sort of correct
The Trinity isn’t actually fundamental, it’s just a syncretic cope. The fundamentals are the same, everyone who doesn’t believe in your god is subhuman and deserves to be conquered for their “own good” but at least they aren’t women.
It is a fundamental. Christians worship Christ as God - which Muslims believe just to be merely a prophet and Jews believe to be a sorcerer and a blasphemer.
Just because only one group believes that Jesus was God doesn’t mean it isn’t the same God.
