Context is key I may have done 12 years of theological studies but I’ll be using AI to summarize this
John 8:58:
This verse is found in the Gospel of John, where Jesus makes the statement “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Moses and Exodus 3:14:
In the Old Testament, God revealed Himself to Moses in a burning bush, declaring, “I AM THAT I AM.” This name, often translated as “I am who I am” or “I will be who I will be,” is a declaration of God’s eternal and self-existent nature, says the Bible Gateway.
Jesus’s Claim:
By saying “before Abraham was, I AM,” Jesus is claiming to be the same eternal, self-existent God who revealed Himself to Moses.
Context:
The statement is made in the context of a discussion with Jewish leaders who were disputing his authority.
Implications:
This verse is a central pillar of Christian theology, affirming Jesus’s divinity and eternal nature.
The Jews’ Reaction:
The people who heard Jesus make this claim were shocked and disturbed, understanding that it was a direct challenge to their understanding of God’s identity.
I don’t see how you’ve made your point here. Jesus being a prophet isn’t mutually exclusive with his being the son of god, or so it would seem to a layperson like myself. If he can be the father, the son, and the holy ghost, it stands to reason he can be a prophet. Lots of hats, I believe he wore.
The key point that I’m trying to make here though is that all of the Jewish profits foretold of the Christ and he was the Christ as far as all the Christians see it. However, all of the Jews and islamists would call him a prophet as they do not believe that he was the Christ.
“Prophet” has a specific meaning, it’s not just a soothsayer. Prophecy is tied to the ends of eras, and for the Semitic people, most of their history was, at that point, servitude of one form or another, punctuated by suffering and occasionally vengeful conquest. The Jewish Prophets fortold the Messiah, who would lead them from suffering to paradise.
Christ, in Christian theology, upended that order. He said he was the new Law, and the only way to God was through him. He was pretty clear on the subject. It didn’t take long before new Prophecies came about - but now, the people of God weren’t just a specific tribe, they were potentially the whole species. So the prophecies had to be Apocalyptic.
Christ wasn’t a Prophet. He brought God’s message (according to him and his fans), but he didn’t say jack about the End Times.
Ok, so maybe (depending on the mythology one subscribes to) he wasn’t a Prophet. Nevertheless, it seems inarguable that he was a prophet. Dude was mad prophetic.
Words we use have meaning even if you don’t like them.
In English, the word “prophet” has a deep historical tie to foretelling the end times for Semitic people
It is a specific tradition you can’t just ignore. So when the question of “was Jesus a prophet” comes up, it’s important to be precise. Go ask any theologian if you don’t believe me. Conflating “prophet” with “soothsayer” was a HUGE sticking point when it came to medieval heresies.
I should note, I’m atheist.
And being “mad prophetic” is absurd. JESUS didn’t foretell the end times. He never once talked about what was to come outside extremely vague assertions like “believe in me and you’ll meet God”. If we go by the Gospel, he was clearly Not A Prophet.
Christians are the worst fucking book club I swear…
Thanks for your insight, I will study knto that topic deeper. I duckduckgoed whether Jesus was a prophet and that passage was what I found. I think the main argument for prophecy was that he was making grandeous statements about the future that were fulfilled, thus he fits the definition. But I’m just a casual reader and could be wrong.
I think in the context of this thread it’s amazing we could come up with two differing views so quickly.
See my reply to ochi in the other thread. Note I was raised Orthodox and from what I understand, reformist Christian sects do not place as much emphasis on the Trinity
Matthew 21:11
And the crowds replied, “This is Jesus the prophet, from Nazareth in Galilee.”
Context is key I may have done 12 years of theological studies but I’ll be using AI to summarize this
John 8:58: This verse is found in the Gospel of John, where Jesus makes the statement “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” Moses and Exodus 3:14: In the Old Testament, God revealed Himself to Moses in a burning bush, declaring, “I AM THAT I AM.” This name, often translated as “I am who I am” or “I will be who I will be,” is a declaration of God’s eternal and self-existent nature, says the Bible Gateway. Jesus’s Claim: By saying “before Abraham was, I AM,” Jesus is claiming to be the same eternal, self-existent God who revealed Himself to Moses. Context: The statement is made in the context of a discussion with Jewish leaders who were disputing his authority. Implications: This verse is a central pillar of Christian theology, affirming Jesus’s divinity and eternal nature. The Jews’ Reaction: The people who heard Jesus make this claim were shocked and disturbed, understanding that it was a direct challenge to their understanding of God’s identity.
This is what makes him not a prophet.
I don’t see how you’ve made your point here. Jesus being a prophet isn’t mutually exclusive with his being the son of god, or so it would seem to a layperson like myself. If he can be the father, the son, and the holy ghost, it stands to reason he can be a prophet. Lots of hats, I believe he wore.
The key point that I’m trying to make here though is that all of the Jewish profits foretold of the Christ and he was the Christ as far as all the Christians see it. However, all of the Jews and islamists would call him a prophet as they do not believe that he was the Christ.
“Prophet” has a specific meaning, it’s not just a soothsayer. Prophecy is tied to the ends of eras, and for the Semitic people, most of their history was, at that point, servitude of one form or another, punctuated by suffering and occasionally vengeful conquest. The Jewish Prophets fortold the Messiah, who would lead them from suffering to paradise.
Christ, in Christian theology, upended that order. He said he was the new Law, and the only way to God was through him. He was pretty clear on the subject. It didn’t take long before new Prophecies came about - but now, the people of God weren’t just a specific tribe, they were potentially the whole species. So the prophecies had to be Apocalyptic.
Christ wasn’t a Prophet. He brought God’s message (according to him and his fans), but he didn’t say jack about the End Times.
Ok, so maybe (depending on the mythology one subscribes to) he wasn’t a Prophet. Nevertheless, it seems inarguable that he was a prophet. Dude was mad prophetic.
Words we use have meaning even if you don’t like them.
In English, the word “prophet” has a deep historical tie to foretelling the end times for Semitic people
It is a specific tradition you can’t just ignore. So when the question of “was Jesus a prophet” comes up, it’s important to be precise. Go ask any theologian if you don’t believe me. Conflating “prophet” with “soothsayer” was a HUGE sticking point when it came to medieval heresies.
I should note, I’m atheist.
And being “mad prophetic” is absurd. JESUS didn’t foretell the end times. He never once talked about what was to come outside extremely vague assertions like “believe in me and you’ll meet God”. If we go by the Gospel, he was clearly Not A Prophet.
Christians are the worst fucking book club I swear…
Thanks for your insight, I will study knto that topic deeper. I duckduckgoed whether Jesus was a prophet and that passage was what I found. I think the main argument for prophecy was that he was making grandeous statements about the future that were fulfilled, thus he fits the definition. But I’m just a casual reader and could be wrong.
I think in the context of this thread it’s amazing we could come up with two differing views so quickly.
See my reply to ochi in the other thread. Note I was raised Orthodox and from what I understand, reformist Christian sects do not place as much emphasis on the Trinity