One of the tricky things with English is that we often have words that can be combined to form different words.

Like greenhouse. It’s a combination of green + house. But a greenhouse is something very different from a green house. Autocorrect may cause some people to make this mistake, but generally, the concepts are understood to be different.

On the other side of things, there’s things like “alot” which is mistakenly used so commonly that my autocorrect didn’t even care that I typed that (and it’s not just because of the quotes!).

Then there are words like login, which as a noun is definitely one word, but as a verb, should almost definitely be two words (“log in to this website”, but “this is my login for the website”)…but “login” seems to be universally recognized as standard for a verb, even though we don’t say loginned for the past tense (we still say “logged in”).

And of course, there are other words that are commonly paired together that we don’t often see with the space removed, like “Takecare”, “Noway”, or “Ofcourse”. These could all be potential candidates for the “alot” treatment. What makes “alot” special?

So what causes “Please login to the website” to be “correct”, but “I workout everyday” to be incorrect? (And maybe everyone is “wrong” about login, or everyone is right about “workout” and “everyday”, and the compound word is an acceptable alternative to the versions with the space)

I feel like this would be better in an AskLinguists community here… maybe there’s an active one that someone could point me to? But I’m still curious to see what people think

    • otp@sh.itjust.worksOP
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      15 hours ago

      Native English speakers make these mistakes as often as, if not more often than, those learning English! Haha

  • ℕ𝕖𝕞𝕠@slrpnk.net
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    17 hours ago

    It’s always interesting to me to see which words get joined and which do not. The rise of ubiquitous realtime spellcheck is forcing some standardization, but not always in ways I agree with. For example, it tried to separate spell from check in the previous sentence. Other examples are hotdog and icecream and doublewide.

  • litchralee@sh.itjust.works
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    19 hours ago

    As you correctly observed, English is tricky and there aren’t too many hard rules with the language, which is aggravating for English learners but also highlights its flexibility, which is an important quality for the de facto language of science, aviation, international trade, etc. So to answer the question, I think there are multiple aspects which make a combined word more likely, including: 1) the constituent words are different parts-of-speech being combined into a new part-of-speech, 2) a contraction whose spelling happens to be very similar to an existing word but is still mostly unambiguous, and 3) how likely the combined word appears in colloquial or subject-matter specific speech and writing.

    Even a combo word that meets all three of those points is not guaranteed to be universally accepted as a new word, but some combo words get accepted even if they don’t meet most of those points. Starting with your examples, “greenhouse” certainly meets point #1, since “green” is an adjective and “house” is a noun, which combined form the new noun “greenhouse”. “login” does the same, although it also meets point #2, since it’s a contraction of “log in” (v.), meaning to sign into a web service. The same goes for “work out” (v) and workout (n, an exercise program for each day of week).

    I personally always write “log in” when I mean the verb, and “login” (n.) to refer to the credentials needed to sign in. But that’s my CS degree showing. As such, I’m of the opinion that “login” as a verb is a typo, since it’s the wrong part-of-speech (a noun when a verb is needed). Same goes for “alot” (IMO, a typo) and “allot” (v, to allocate). Whether such typos are permissible depends on the quality of the writing, as “takecare” and “ofcourse” would be unacceptable in a dissertation but perfectly fine for an IRC chatroom for die-hard fans of British cooking shows. But I think most people in the latter group, if asked, would probably agree that “ofcourse” is a typo. Basic English literacy means we’re not going to hapazardly throwawaythewhitespace andtryto pretendthatitdoesnt matter.

    Finally, prevalence, which is considered by many linguists to be the ultimate test of neologisms: if people use it and it’s understood, then it’s a word. But that rule needs to be viewed from the lens of the intended audience. For example, years and years ago, I understood the legal term “housecar” in the California Vehicle Code to mean something akin to a family saloon car, meaning a car suitable for transporting a whole family or household. This would contrast with a pick-up trucks, sports cars, and commercial vehicles. But my naivete was to not look up the actual definition, and I just wrongly assumed that definition because it made sense for “house” and “car” to combine in that way. The real definition is a car that is also a house, meaning an RV or motorhome. That just goes to show that – since I’m not a lawyer – I was not the audience to gauge whether “housecar” is a valid combo word or not. Whereas California-based lawyers would have likely recognized the meaning in short order.

    Basically, each combo word is unique in its circumstances, but perhaps those three points I mentioned have a lot (haha) to do with whether a combo word achieves universal adoption. “alot” does not seem to have met the full acceptance test.

  • Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe
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    16 hours ago

    Such things are possibly influenced by things like Latin. English (generally) has different written forms for noun and verb forms, which kind of reflect spoken language (though none of this is set in pudding, let alone stone).

    There’s a great podcast “The History of English” By Kevin Stroud, that discusses such things.

    • otp@sh.itjust.worksOP
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      15 hours ago

      For historical or proper words, yes. But I don’t think mistakes would be influenced by Latin…right? Lol

  • hendrik@palaver.p3x.de
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    20 hours ago

    Isn’t written language just an arbitrary agreement? I don’t see much logic in a lot of aspects of the English language. I just memorize it. And as a German, I kind of struggle with these words, as we have a lot of compound words in our language. And the languages share a common ancestor. And I don’t really see any reason to write “livingroom” as two words… I mean it’s one room… And you tend to do it the other way around with other nouns… I also have no idea why. And then there’s the occasional dash in between words… Or “in between” itself. Or “itself” or was it “it self”? It’s just confusing. It’s probably an artifact of how the language developed.

    • otp@sh.itjust.worksOP
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      14 hours ago

      Isn’t written language just an arbitrary agreement?

      So is spoken language! And I’d argue that it’s more the case for spoken language than written language.

      As someone who taught English and had to try to find patterns, here are my tips…

      • If it’s an adjective describing a noun, it’s two words (e.g. a house that’s green is a green house)
      • if its one concept without an adjective, it might be a single compound work (e.g, the special building for growing plants is a greenhouse. Green doesn’t describe a colour)
      • Compound words usually don’t have any conjugation when a verb is used…if there’s conjugation, then it won’t become one word (which is why we have “living room” and “bathroom”…but a “bathing room” would be two words. But not always)
      • If the compound word that’s a verb needs to be broken apart to be conjugated, it’s probably not a compound wor (e.g., if you need to say “He works out” and not “he workouts”, then it should be “I work out” and not “I workout”)

      But also English is just dumb. Especially with the dashes. I use those more for sticking together words that aren’t actually compound words. Or when it looks better, like with level-headed. It looks too long without the dash to my English eyes.

      Also, “itself” is always itself. It’s the reflexive pronoun (I think) like myself, yourself, etc. It’s one word the same way that “hers” is one word.

    • Polygondenimland@lemmy.world
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      20 hours ago

      As a Dutchman, I agree. In fact, I’m pretty sure that ever since we’ve been increasing our exposure to the written English language, many Dutch people have been adding nonsensical spaces to words that used to be written as compounds. We even call it ‘English disease’ (along with other anglicisms)

  • ERROR: Earth.exe has crashed@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    19 hours ago

    When you wantto slowly convert the englishlanguage into Chinese where youhave two characters that act as oneword, so you just apply the sametrick in englishwords. But then you make english look like the germanlanguage with multiplewordsstrungtogetherasifitwereonewordandnobodyknowswhatthewordevenmeansandscaresforeignersawaybecausewhythefuckisthewordlikefiftycharacters?

    Edit:Ithinkpeopleprobablyjusthaveabrokenspacebarand,voila!germanlanguageisinvented!

  • lemmy689@lemmy.sdf.org
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    20 hours ago

    Alot is incorrect and is close to allot. Lot is a pretty confusing word in english, like it’s possible to have a lot of lots, each a particular allotment maybe. A lot is both one and many, one single lot, or many things, a lot of things. Hope that clears it up haha.

    I think the word lot comes from allotment.