• rumba@lemmy.zip
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    39 minutes ago

    The Masons are secretive. Many very high level historic figures have been Masons. It’s a good old boys club to get in you need to be sponsored by another Mason. You don’t hear a lot about their accomplishments. And you would expect that a social group that contained many of the important men in history wouldn’t just be sitting around doing nothing in secret.

  • kalkulat@lemmy.world
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    7 hours ago

    In 1738 the Pope forbid all Catholics from joining a Masonic lodge (open to men of any religion, and secretive, no doubt to avoid Inquisition), and called them ‘depraved and perverted’ (unlike the Church, of course). No doubt the faithful kept the rumor-mills turning.

  • BigFig@lemmy.world
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    17 hours ago

    Read up on their founding and history, they brought it upon themselves. They wanted to be the mysterious Boogeyman from their inception because the founders thought it would be cool and fun.

      • Omega_Jimes
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        2 hours ago

        Isn’t that what the Order of Odd Fellows is?

        I love secret societies because they always remind me of LARPers. I used to go to this comic shop that held a Vampire:The Masquerade LARP thing, and they would all act secretive and sneaky, and come in the backdoor and things.

      • masterspace
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        16 hours ago

        In high school we started a secret order, made a logo and symbols that we printed into stickers and would hide around the school in weird hidden places, even published a fake newspaper that we left around referencing it’s mythology and origins.

        About 4 years after we all graduated I heard that apparently someone replaced the national anthem tape with one repeating the order’s phrases and terms.

        My god I hope that train keeps running away.

        • MajorHavoc@programming.dev
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          12 hours ago

          Nice.

          My version is not as good, but may amuse you as thanks for sharing your story.

          I once started a joke secret society in an MMO, only to be forgotten within a day, and then (gleefully) be reinducted a couple days later by a total stranger as a new member.

          The induction nonsense had changed enough within that couple of days that I think I made a pretty convincing new recruit.

          Though I think I caused some confusion when I changed outfits - I forgot that I had not yet “been told” the secret dress code. Oops. I think everyone then realized something was up, but chalked it up to secret society intrigues.

      • vala@lemmy.world
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        12 hours ago

        Ehh, Freemasons are probably not religious in the sense you think they are. They all believe in god but are not necessarily of the same religious background.

        • pearsaltchocolatebar@discuss.online
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          11 hours ago

          I had a buddy who was in it. The background checks they do are comparable to getting a security clearance, and he said you’d get tossed out if you weren’t religious.

          • Cracks_InTheWalls@sh.itjust.works
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            2 hours ago

            From what I understand, intensity will vary from chapter to chapter. A belief in God is a requirement, but there can be some wiggle room on exactly what that means.

            Looked into it because it sounded cool, attending some sort of group thing would probably be a good idea for me, and I find ritual fascinating. Shit gets expensive, though.

            Edit: Who am I kidding, it’s mostly because I want my wallet contents to sound like Grandpa Simpson’s

          • WindyRebel@lemmy.world
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            4 hours ago

            Background check?! BACKGROUND CHECK?!

            My dad was a Freemason, and I went through the first initiation and was working on the second but decided I didn’t want to continue despite enjoying my teen years in DeMolay. There was no fucking background check. lol! Hell, to join you just need to ask a Freemason - they don’t really ask you.

            You have a Freemason who can vouch for your character as kind of a “sponsor” so maybe THAT is the background check but you don’t fill out any forms or anything that get submitted to the government.

            Also, they use God in their words but you don’t have to believe in God. I dunno, maybe Nevada lodges have different rules? I doubt it.

          • MojoMcJojo@lemmy.world
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            5 hours ago

            The background check is no more than when applying to a job, they just check to see if you have a criminal record. They make a home visit to explain themselves to your family and to make sure your personal life doesn’t look like à mess, ie your not living like a piece of shit.

          • corsicanguppy
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            11 hours ago

            There are guilds who aren’t religious at all. Next rumour, please.

            • TurtleOnASkateboard@lemmy.ml
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              3 hours ago

              Don’t fret about any ‘background checks’.

              They say “do you believe in god yes/no” and “are you conspiring to overthrow the government yes/no” with a bored look on their face. They’re obliged to ask this because of traditional rules. It is a box-ticking.

      • JayDee@lemmy.world
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        15 hours ago

        I think that any adult secret society is either going to be lame and boring, or it quickly escalates into a cult, gang, cartel, racket, or terrorist organization, depending on the group’s intentions.

      • nailingjello@lemmy.zip
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        13 hours ago

        If I recall, Masons don’t require you to worship any specific God, just believe in a higher power or something like that.

        • Postmortal_Pop@lemmy.world
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          14 hours ago

          While yes, the unfortunate thing is that it’s pretty christian dominant and my experience has been that don’t appreciate agnostics and pagans in there midsts.

          • TurtleOnASkateboard@lemmy.ml
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            7 hours ago

            my experience has been that don’t appreciate agnostics and pagans in there midsts.

            my experience is contrary to this. Few people really believe in religion in 2024, it’s not like the pious times in which the rites originated.

            In practice, you don’t have to believe in god to be a mason. Although that rule is still around.

            • MojoMcJojo@lemmy.world
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              5 hours ago

              Every lodge is different. Visitors from one lodge to another were once appalled by the more relaxed atmosphere of another. Even in a society of very well documented and studied ‘rules’ and practices can have widely different cultures depending on the town and people. Not all lodges are created equal.

      • MechanicalJester@lemm.ee
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        11 hours ago

        It used to be. In fact ideally you were descended from a freemason and also vouched for.

        Times change.

        They used to wield real power or influence in protestant Midwestern and East coast areas in the 1800 to early 1900s.

      • 𝚐𝚕𝚘𝚠𝚒𝚎@h4x0r.host
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        16 hours ago

        It is not disinformation. My comment’s context was about the founding days and not today. When the lies about Freemasons/Illuminati were first being spread, it was invite-only. Now, it’s ASK12B1 and you still must undergo an interview process. Including, months worth of training before the first degree.

  • 🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 ℹ️@yiffit.net
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    17 hours ago

    They’re a literal secret society. The secrecy leads to all sorts of wild rumors, which just get amplified, altered, and exaggerated over time until you’ve got Reptilian Illuminati trying to conquer the world through subliminal messages being broadcast through tooth fillings via fluoride in the water.

    • KoboldCoterie@pawb.social
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      11 hours ago

      Every time I hear conspiracy theories about reptilians secretly pulling the strings, I wish so fucking bad that it was true. I’d take that in a heartbeat.

    • garbagebagel@lemmy.world
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      10 hours ago

      So recently they opened a Masonic Hall within view of my window and I watch their parties go on many nights of the week. I can definitely confirm there’s a lot of reptiles and subliminal messaging and definitely not just a bunch of old people partying and hanging out.

  • Call me Lenny/Leni@lemm.ee
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    16 hours ago

    From what I’ve come across, it’s from a combination of their secrecy (historically to the point of death, read about Hiram Abiff William Morgan who was mobbed to death by Freemasons just North of where I used to live), their links to the upper class, their place in the spiritual sphere (they have Anglican/Templar associations, which is why the pope forbids joining, and these put their links to the British crown into perspective, as well as the fact they have their very own equivalent to the Vatican Secret Archives, which is a common theme, with the more gender-inclusive and Knights-Hospitaller-sprung Sovereign Military Order of Malta being their strictest rivals), their feud with what has come to be known as the LDS church (Joseph Smith was said to have been a Freemason who took off with their secret “ideas” to make the Book of Mormon), the fact they have historically looked down on those who leave or operate from other societies such as the Oddfellows, and some of their practices, such as the fact they used to be unwilling to testify against each other in court (I don’t know if this is still true, but to put that into perspective, the United States recently reprimanded Scientology for the same reason), how “expensive” it is to actually be a member, their overlapping with what would today be called Gnosticism (oddly the G symbol does not stand for Gnosticism, though one cannot deny what comes across as some very sectarian observations/tendencies), and how it’s 2025 and they still don’t allow women to join (they also used to not allow people of color to join either, up until recently, and they still require someone to have a spiritual upbringing), which is why I am not one (I could join the Eastern Star, but it’s almost knock-off-esque compared to the actual thing, which actually used to frown upon the Eastern Star as “missing the point”, plus they wouldn’t take kindly to my upbringing since my details would fall outside their range of knowledge).

    In a way, it’s comparable to how we might critique a British megachurch, if that megachurch was formatted like a university fraternity club. I had known many Freemasons, which is the norm where I used to live because there is a high enough Masonic presence in the area that they built the streets (arranging the sidewalk in a literal square and compass design), with family members of my friends participating in the group. I have nothing against them on their own, but with their sense of superiority and duty (especially with foreign entities involved) that often gets stereotypically mixed in with their demeanor, they can be as overbearing as sand here (coarse and rough and irritating and getting everywhere), which for a long time has not just led me to speculate myself but also forced my hand in a way. When you combine an obsolete sense of self with extreme exclusivity, well, there you go.

  • ComradeMiao@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    17 hours ago

    Idk but as one there is no way a bunch slightly racist old white Christian men can organize anything beyond the local and maybe state level.

    Masonry is really cool and used to be highly influential for all levels of society but it’s not that anymore. It’s really sad. My grandparents generations were joiners. After the war everyone joined a society. My parents joined some. But nowadays that’s very rare. Everyone in my lodge was 50-80.

    I think the propaganda comes from a similar place of earlier Jesuit propaganda. A bunch of men meeting in secret, seeking education away from church and state, highly involved in the community. Now it’s just having meals, meetings, and planning which charity event to do.

    • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
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      12 hours ago

      The sub-60 crowd is much more interested in digging into the symbolism of the work. I think pushing for more education is the key to revitalization. What’s the point of purging to go over budget readings?

        • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
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          11 hours ago

          Seems like the older crowd is 90% there for the socializing. I think as the 30-50 crowd climbs the steps we’ll see the philosophical side shift into focus. I have an optimistic outlook on the next few decades.

    • 𝚐𝚕𝚘𝚠𝚒𝚎@h4x0r.host
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      17 hours ago

      Uh, not all are Christian or white. There are many lodges encompassing Filipino or Asian brothers. There’s also the Prince Hall masons for African-Americans. Additionally, the Scottish Right are not Christian-based like the Knights Templar.

  • itsgroundhogdayagain@lemmy.ml
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    16 hours ago

    Because they won’t tell people what they do in their ceremonies. It’s really not all that interesting, to be honest.

    • TurtleOnASkateboard@lemmy.ml
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      15 hours ago

      That is another misconception. The ceremonies are in books and on the internet. The only real secret is the means-of-identification.

    • danekrae@lemmy.world
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      16 hours ago

      I wonder if it’s only in my country, that they are told to protect israel? I read that in a freemasons documents, that I found on his computer in a totally legal way…

      Did your organisation also have to change opsec these past 10 years?

      Uuh and are you also encouraged to do business with other masons, to keep accumulating wealth?

      • TurtleOnASkateboard@lemmy.ml
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        16 hours ago

        I wonder if it’s only in my country, that they are told to protect israel? I read that in a freemasons documents, that I found on his computer in a totally legal way…

        Uhmmm two of my lodge members have been bombed by Israel during their military service hahaha. We are not fans.

        Did your organisation also have to change opsec these past 10 years?

        I haven’t been in it 10 years.

        Uuh and are you also encouraged to do business with other masons, to keep accumulating wealth?

        No. Although one can only do business with people one knows, and I know Masons.

  • Maeve@kbin.earth
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    16 hours ago

    My great grandad was a Mason all his adult life (~16 until his death at 99), as were my father and grandfather. None made it to the 33rd degree, which I’m not sure how much study, effort and money they put fourth, in effort. I know it irked me father and grandfather they had to pay the Masons $300 to perform “Amazing Grace” on bagpipes, at my great grand’s funeral, which was his dying wish, so they walked away from the society.

    Lon Milo Duquette speaks about the Masons, a bit, in some of his talks, but I’ve not delved deeply into their customs. I think there’s quite a bit available, online, if one is interested enough to research. I’d think they are like any other organization: differing beliefs and political orientation among individuals, but I could be wrong.

  • brie@programming.dev
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    16 hours ago

    All public secret orgs are like that. Intel agencies and yids too. Even chip manufacturers are always accused of planting backdoors. Yes, it’s an oxymoron to be a public secret, but we can’t discuss the real secret orgs for an obvious reason.

    If you look at an average freemason, you see a fat boomer bozo. Do you really think folks like that possess any valuable knowledge that it’s not on the internet?

  • Daemon Silverstein@thelemmy.club
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    16 hours ago

    TL;DR: because conspiracy theorists are people too scared to dive themselves into what they consider “forbidden” knowledge. They’re scared of trying to understand it. They fear some kind of “divine punishment”, but it’s just themselves.


    I was once a conspiracy theorist and Christian. Not exactly Christian, as I didn’t engage with any church or Christian denomination. I was once someone who was vocal about how freemasonry “pacts with the devil” and “hides secrets”. The symbols, the hand gestures… It seemed like a “evil” thing to me.

    However… Deep inside… I always felt some attraction to the mysterious. Deep inside, I wanted to eat the forbidden fruit… and, the destiny is a funny thing, I did, I proved it, I opened myself, and it all made sense to me.

    Today I know, there’s no such thing as “evil” or “good” when we consider the grand scheme of the Cosmos. Good and evil are human constructs, while cosmic forces are capable of both “evil” and “good”. Ordo ab chao is a beautiful concept when you allow yourself. Chaos seems like a scary word for those who didn’t gaze into the abyss: She got beautiful eyes… Scary, but beautiful. It can feel painful sometimes, it can feel lonely to get to understand, but it’s the only purposeful thing I’m aware. The cosmic chaos. From that, the somethingness emerges: the order, which unfolds into chaos again, like a fractal, a recursive identity of itself, as above so below. Chaos emerges order, order emerges chaos. Throughout the eternity, they unfold. It as “simple” as that. A cosmic dance, Yin and Yang, Darkness and Light, Goddess and God, Asherah and Yahweh, Lilith and Lucifer, Matter and Energy. Dancing as The Oneness. The Cosmos.

    I’m probably “profane” in the eyes of Freemasons, because nowadays I openly advocate that anybody should be allowed to know the knowledge and even practice it. After all, we’re all the Cosmos experiencing itself, so why not? I know they see this knowledge through a different lens, a different from that of, to exemplify, Luciferianism and Chaos Magick. They’re not related, yet they grasp the same cosmic knowledge. A knowledge that, in order to be understood, needs an open mind and an open soul. It needs Eve and Adam to eat the fruit so to see what Lilith and Lucifer were naturally emerged to see: the beauty within the cosmic dance of darkness and chaos.