Rapid Response 47 is another Trump white alt spewing racist shit
I hate both, just shut up.
Agree, they can broadcast of a community radio channel or use an app.
Everyone who wants to listen to a prayer can stream it on their headphones. Leave everyone else out of your bullshit
It isn’t the medieval times anymore. It’s already noisy af as it is.
i think in this particular case it’s not much different, but generally the muezzin calls five times each day plus a sixth bonus time on fridays for the jumu’ah. this can be even more annoying than the christian stupid sunday morning bell, when everyone is still hungover; that is, if they actually do it from the minaret, but they can also use messengers, radio, etc.
Some churches ring three times a day for daily prayer. Dunno how common that is in the US.
I live near a town with a street that was named “church street”, not because the church was on it, but seven. The town as a whole has at least 17 that I know of.
About half of them have bells, and of those, 5 ring every hour on the hour all day and night, one rings every hour from 8am to 8pm, two or three ring 3x a day (sunrise, noon, sunset) and the others either don’t have bells or don’t use them regularly enough for me to notice.
I can hear the chiming from my back yard, which is several miles away from the city limits.
I don’t know how people put up with it, honestly. It’s nothing to do with my dislike for religion in general, I just hate all that noise, and would not be able to live close to them.
I do think my town is a bit of an anomaly though.
5 ring every hour on the hour all day and night, one rings every hour from 8am to 8pm
To be fair those are clock bells and not really about religion.
While not inherently religious, they come from a religious building.
Besides, I’d argue that If it were simply about being a clock, they wouldn’t all be going, every single day, competing with each other for the most ridiculous “music” at noon that can last up to 3 minutes.
I lived in Oxford for a few years and, if anything, I became rather fond of all the bell ringing. But I can see why someone might have the opposite reaction.
The jesuit school by my work does ring them at least thrice a day. They are kinda nice though. I agree nobody needs public alarms now we have clocks in our pockets though.
ETA: they ring hourly. I checked today.
Uncommon around me and I’m in a pretty pluralistic area with lots of churches, temples, mosques, etc within a couple miles. The only one I get is the alert system test on the same day and hour once a month. I think beyond a certain decibel would violate public noise ordinances.
Where I use to live the church bells would ring every hour and the amount of times it rang represented what time it was.
yeah, but that’s not for religious reasons, just old timey time keeping from back when nobody had a personal clock.
they also ring in emergencies (eg. fire) in some regions.
You get used to it, I know from experience. I found it easier than getting used to Sunday church bells because it’s more frequent.
If the church bell is too loud your windows suck. Or your bell is not compliant.
A lot of our windows do suck dude. Landlords are fucking parasites who don’t invest in good windows.
That’s not up to code.
My landlord when I tell them we don’t have hot water for the third week in a row:
My landlord when Gladaed@feddit.org says their windows aren’t up to code on Lemmy:
Literally don’t pay rent. If you are not sure about how much rent you can dock ask your local Tenants Union. Make sure to stay in the legal bounds.
More than half of US states don’t have a single tenant or renter’s union available.
My previous apartment complex was bought out by BlackStone Inc. and within the next year began posting everybody’s eviction notices on the front of their mailboxes, which all mailboxes are in a shared area. Dozens of people were evicted due to failure to pay while I waited out my lease, it’s not a realistic option to not pay for many people.
Believe it or not, infractions happen every day
Cite the code, I’ll even accept IBC.
(WSchVO) 1977 in West Germany. Your pseudo international building code is not international, btw.
Me when I’m privileged enough not to live in the US where the building code is literally cardboard walls and plastic windows.
I don’t live there. They asked for an example.
I’m not religious but I’ve lived near both and the Muslim call to prayer is sooooooo much worse. Not even just the frequency but the call itself - the first time it went off, I muted my music thinking it was some kind of ominous warning. I mean no offense but it sounds like pained wailing.
The bells are quite pleasant imo. But now I live by a Jewish temple and there’s no sound, I like that the most
Yeah, I agree with the poster that it’s hypocritical - but you do not want to live nearby any of the mosques that blast daily prayers.
They’re long, they’re loud, they go five times a day (prior to dawn, start of work day, after work day, and late evening prior to sleep)… and I’m sure they all buy their loudspeakers from the same place that supplies cheap drive-thrus.
Man the speaker thing hits home. The one I lived by had a buzz to it, sounded like they were doing the announcements a kazoo.
I agree it’s definitely possible it’s a legitimate noise complaint. Just as ringing bells could be a legitimate nuisance.
I didn’t like hearing the midnight/dawn call to prayer when I was in Turkey, and I wouldn’t like it if a church across the street was ringing its bells at that time either.
I hear that Muslims think that anyone that is not blessed in their religion, even infants, will go to hell. They have a single religious leader that has absolute control over their theocratic state and has influence over leaders from around the world (historically, even power over them). They have a history of holy wars, torture of those of other faith, and holding back any knowledge and scientific progress that challenges their doctrine. They adorn their holy places with devices of torture and execution. And they practice ritualistic cannibalism of a holy man regularly, even feeding it to their children.
Oh sorry… that’s Catholics.
Only some of that is true. Protestants are the ones who think everyone else is definitely hellbound, Catholics believe there’s reasonable hope for the salvation of non-believers and the pope they started the year with stirred controversy by saying he personally liked to think hell is empty. Also the Vatican is technically under absolute papal control, but a) it’s a square mile in the capital of another country, and b) it doesn’t have a military. They can’t really do anything with their absolute control except provide sanctuary. Now, I’m not going to act like their sanctuary is uncontroversial, they hid both fascists and their victims, and they do continue to hide their pedos there sometimes, but it’s not like they have secret police disappearing people or citizens with no other allegiances, it’s the only country you can’t be born a citizen of.
The point wasn’t to shit on Catholics. It was meant to demonstrate and mock how framing otherwise basically true facts in a certain way can turn what would otherwise be considered “normal” church history and religious activity into something more menacing. This is often used to vilify non-normalized religions, cultures, etc.
You’re just describing abrahamic religions. This thread is honestly concerning. I grew up in the middle east and I hate seeing this much tolerance of Islam because I experienced the worst of it but oh no people think it’s cool and trendy to allow the athan to play t times a day in little fucking Mogadishu now
Fuck any public broadcasting of religion and separate church and state
I’m not defending either religion. I said elsewhere in the thread that I think the Bible and the Quran are full of barbarism and unfit to be a moral guide for anyone. I just love to point out the hypocrisy of American Christians that deem other faiths ‘weird’ and ‘menacing’ without acknowledging their own similar flaws just because they have normalized and contextualized their religion and fail to do it for others.
I cant say that I really care about public expression, religious or otherwise, so long as it is not a nuisance (unless it is protest and that nuisance is the point). I dont know how loud the public prayer calls are or at what hours it runs, so I cant really say if it meets that level of nuisance or not. Religion isn’t my jam, and I dont want it forced upon me in terms of policy and law. Theocracy is a fucking nightmare. As you said, church and state should be separate; they shouldnt even share borders. But everyone has as much right to express their religion in public as we do to critique it. That’s fine by me, man.
I completely agree, and allowing athan to be broadcast is, for me, not the same as public expression. A person wearing hijab, sure. That’s an individual choice and personal expression . Lobbying the town hall so you can blast prayer 5 times a day to give the neighborhood a religious ‘in-group’ feel is borderline exclusionary, and not my jam. I get the vibe you haven’t been/lived in a Muslim country. The athan is literally nothing but a nuisance to non Muslims. It’s like a 5 minute declaration/command for prayer at full volume 5 times a day.
Well that’s what I was saying, IDK how much a nuisance it actually is going to be in practice here. If it is a relatively brief record of chanting at a reasonable volume in daytime hours, that’s fine. Not functionally different than a busker with an amp playing music on the street in term of noise pollution. If it is uncomfortably loud for nearby residents, fully audible from a mile away or going off in the middle of the night, then that goes beyond expression and into disturbing the peace. I know the chants are loud and disruptive (by design) in many Muslim countries. I’m not sure if they are trying to do the exact same here or if they are taking it a bit easier in this case.
“Cool and trendy”?
Yes, it’s popular among the youth in the USA/Canada and Europe to be very accepting of Islam as if it’s as benign as any other religion. And people (westerners) respect the hijab, oppression of women, and it’s socially acceptable somehow now that they can drink and have sex but not eat pork and call themselves good Muslims. If anything they bash Christianity and Judaism extra hard because that is the status quo and give some kind of social pass to Islam because they are discriminated against in Canada or something? It’s pathetic to be honest with you
It is as benign as any other religion. That is to say that none of them are benign
I mean, fair enough. I’ll admit I’m biased against Islam because of my experiences and upbringing but there is some weird exception progressives seem to have for Muslims
It wasn’t near as loud among them until the Free Palestine movement. It was there, but FP put it more at the forefront in online circles.
Maybe in the states but in Canada and Europe its been prevalent for the last 10 years at least. Us Arabs are now the minority flavor of the week for white sympathy, and young people who don’t know any better think they should suddenly tolerate our intolerance because we’re disenfranchised. And that sucks because 10 years down the line some radical fuck is gonna do some extremist bullshit in “little Mogadishu” and anti-arab sentiment will become popular again, rinse and repeat
Because muslims are overly criticised and targeted specifically for their religion in the West.
Muslims shouldn’t be targeted because they are Muslims.
And
Religion doesn’t have its place in a progressive society.
There are 2 distinct issues, but they are almost always conflated, because it makes it easy to derail the discussions and debates.
Either is fucking annoying. I don’t want to listen to your religious bullshit. Keep it inside the building.
agreed, as long as we aren’t using “noise pollution” to go against a specific minority.
Personally I think church bells are really annoying too and I’m super glad I live somewhere where they don’t do that regularly.
I live next to a Mosque in Europe. The call to prayer is super chill and notably less invasive than church bells.
Church bells cut through double glazing. Call to prayer does not.
Idk, bells sounding the hour are basically like any clock to me (I like clocks so I’m biased). Spoken prayer over a loud speaker is much more invasive imo.
Sounds like you never lived next to a church that will ring their whole bell Assembly for half an hour at a time every Sunday and holiday
The clocks rings are just a extra service. The main reason churches have bells is too tell everyone to move their asses to church
Lived a block away from a Catholic church for several years. Bells did not ring for half an hour, but I do remember them ringing a little longer for some holidays.
I guess other Catholic churches handle it differently?
Might have been a bit of a hyperbole, but I’ve had them go on for at least 15min when I was living near one. And especially when you want to sleep on a Sunday, it feels a lot longer
It’s different because it’s not a bell, and it’s not white people making the noise. Stupid question.
Or the local Methodist church that plays a loudspeaker hymn at noon everyday.
That’s different, because it is doing God’s Will and Bringing People to Jesus. We’re saving people’s souls!!!
The Radical Islamic Jihadists are doing Allah’s Will and Bringing People to Mohammad, which damns them to hell.
In that the primary function of the bells (at least where I live) is the telling of time, not religious broadcasting. There is no inherent message in the chiming of the clocks. In general, the bells chime every full hour during during daytime, and clock towers aren’t necessarily exclusive to churches either.
There is certainly an argument to be made however that they should be removed due to being redundant, intrusive and outdated.
If I had a choice between both being allowed and both prohibited, the choice would be prohibiting both, always. It’s a question of freedom from religion - we shouldn’t have to live with religious propaganda being blasted into our homes.
Where I live it isn’t. The bells ring 15 min before each mass and that’s it. Mass at 13:40? Bells go off at 13:25. On Sunday this happens several times a day at “random” times of day that have nothing to do with telling the time.
Eesh, that sounds obnoxious
Arabic is scary :(
/s
Especially the way they write numbers… Eww
Did you hear that Mandani supports teaching Arabic numerals in elementary schools!?
The difference is that some mosques use some shitty ass loud speaker and the guy doing the call can’t hold a note. Like it’s fine if they only do it once a week but a daily call is just way too much. Like church bells are annoying too but at least the sound is way more pleasant. Seriously if Muslims in the west want to be more accepted they need to take into account that they live in a non-Muslim majority country and non-muslims do not need the call to prayer and many find it annoying as hell. Acceptance and tolerance is a two way street, can’t just force other people to accept your traditions if you aren’t willing to accommodate to their traditions too. Like even many churches in my western country have stopped ringing the bells frequently.
Seriously if Muslims in the west want to be more accepted they need to take into account that they live in a non-Muslim majority country and non-muslims do not need the call to prayer and many find it annoying as hell.
Something related and complex is that in turkey, the call to prayer used to be in turkish.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_adhanNow, the theological arguments on this are very complex (all Qurans must have the original arabic in order to stop arguments over translation, etc), but it would be interesting to hear the call to prayer in english.
I now deeply want to hear the call to prayer sung in English in a heavy Minnesotan accent. Any accent really. LA, Texan, Georgian (state, not country; you know what, either).
Yeah and the morning call to prayer can be a bit much when you’re trying to sleep in.
It feels like it should be possible to have an app on your phone that will make the all of the religious sounds you need to hear, so not sure why it needs to be blasted throughout a neighbourhood. In the past when people had no way of knowing when it was time to go to the Mosque, having a sound everyone in a town could hear made sense, but you really don’t need to wake up the entire neighbourhood at 6am to let a small number of people in that community know it’s time to pray.
Fajr is too damn early!
Also I lived down the street from this. It’s not even that loud. I never heard it when I was living there.
Oh, also Minneapolis never burned to the ground. Like right wing people think.
None of the US cities are anything like what they’ve been led to believe.
I mean really the Catholics with the simulated blood guzzling and flesh eating rituals should just STFU.
I’m here to point out that they believe it’s not simulated. Catholics specifically believe that it is literally transformed into flesh and blood.
It’s called transubstantiation, and it has been scientifically proven to be real. We have already sequenced Christ’s DNA, and China is supposedly secretly trying to clone him as we speak. This decade is just going to keep getting weirder.
Can’t, uh, can’t tell if this is sarcastic
You really can’t? Come on now
Someone who genuinely believes this stuff would say the exact same type of things, so… No, I can’t. And it’s not some personal failing, it’s cause I have no idea who that is to calibrate expectations against.
I will say that “We did science on the cracker and proved it is Jesus” feels far more Protestant than Catholic.
Catholics would be reading you 16th century poetry and laying out a convoluted metaphor, then rolling their eyes and sighing before insisting “Its a Sacred Mystery, I am legally obligated to say I believe it is real”. We’re all writing letters to the Pope to politely ask that we can drop this kayfabe shit in Vatican III. But until then, Transubstantiation is real please stop asking further questions.
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Protestants are the secularized majority, and catholics are the weirdo extremists
Protestants have always been flirting with secularization. That’s sort of their brand. They take a scope of rationalist scientific inquiry and mix it in with a scope of Christian mysticism, then try to logic their way to Salvation by doing math on scripture. Incidentally, not unlike how a lot of Kabbalist Jews try to force the Talmud through a Renaissance Era series of tubes.
Sometimes you can pop out the back side more zanny than the Catholicism you started with (doggedly insisting in 6000 year old Earth based on doing Biblical genealogy). Sometimes you come out as Prosperity Gospel types who have wrapped the pastiche of Christianity around the machinery of capitalist market enterprise. Sometimes you do Liberation Theology and turn into a far-left socialist radical. But for a lot of Protestants, its just an exercise in Cafeteria Catholicism. Take the bits you like, discard the bits you don’t, and rewrite the old scriptures in your own modern image.
I bet this guy is on it
When the Romans persecuted Christians, cannibalism was one of the accusations levied against them, because taking it seriously leads pretty naturally to that conclusion.
Jfc I didn’t realize that
Especially many american catholics (even priests) just outright defying the pope. THE POPE, BISHOP OF ROME, IS LITTERLY YOUR MAIN GUY SECOND TO GOD ACCORDING TO YOUR DOCTRINE. Ugh these kind of religiouse people are the worst, no matter which religion
To be fair infighting is a long standing Catholic tradition.
Back then the pope was also a wordly ruler so things were different
The ones who try to claim they didn’t vote for him tho…you can’t script that level of hilarity
simulated blood guzzling and flesh eating
It’s grape juice and crackers, calm down.
The Catholics genuinely believe it’s the body and blood of Christ after the priest does his ritual. I went to a Catholic school and can confirm this.
The Catholics generally accept that Transubstantiation is a thing they’re supposed to believe in.
If you hold up a cracker to an actual practicing Catholic and you demand to see proof that the bread is now human flesh, they’ll just shrug at you and say “You don’t get it, man”. It’s Woo-Woo. We all know it’s Woo-Woo. The fact that the Papacy refused to acknowledge a ritualized metaphor for what it is doesn’t obligate the rest of the congregation to be more than flippantly obtuse.
Lol you are institutionalizing the hypocrisy
I’m not sure you understand what either of those words mean.
Go have a cracker and Welch’s grape and ruminate on it. Or, genuflect if you prefer.
I’m being told by Lemmy that this makes me a cannibal
There’s a neighbourhood in New York that had a whole ass siren to announce Shabbos. And not a small one, it was a Sentry 40V2T which is one of the loudest outdoor warning sirens produced today. Needless to say that got shut down years ago.
Here’s a video from 10 years ago of the siren.
It was missing many of its horns but still proved far too loud.
Oh, fuck that.
However long that took to get shut down, it wasn’t fast enough.
That’s INSANE. And for a non emergency.
