What a downfall Tesla
Looking forward to Tesla reporting Q2 earnings next month. I assume another round of disastrous numbers paired up with some vaporware distraction. Perhaps they can keep this charade going, but at some point reality will catch up.
Good, continue with the downward spiral.
And in the US we just block foreign options because it is gov policy to artificially support specific corporations.
the country of free market capitalism…
Oddly libertarians never acknowledge that market leaders ask for theses things. The biggest threat to the free market are capitalists themselves.
American libertarianism is just a form of nationalism mixed with a strong dose of “don’t nose into muh life”
There are 2 types of libertarians.
One group is comprised of people who think the government should basically keep the military going, and handle foreign relations when that doesn’t impede private citizens.
The other group is just Republicans who don’t like being called Republicans.
I think that’s the invisible hand of the market. The visible part is the products you don’t get to have.
USA could have spent money developing an electrified economy but the republicans are focusing on bringing back coal mining and reshoring shoe manufacturing instead.
This admin has set the USA back 100 years.
Which kind of blows my mind. Coal miners should love EVs. There was a story in the news a few years ago about how nice it was for the miners to help someone in an EV, as if they should be mortal enemies.
Non-EV cars don’t run on coal, they run on gasoline. EVs on the other hand can run on coal, natural gas, solar, wind, you name it - and still are more energy efficient than cars burning gasoline. In a sane world, coal miners would be throwing their support behind electric vehicles. The utility companies seem to understand this, but seems like the support hasn’t made its way up the supply chain.
Of course US trucks run on coal. I see them rolling coal all the time! They cant roll coal if it wasnt coal. Duh…
This isn’t exclusively a problem of the new administration, or the previous. All administrations since the late 20th century have been compliant in allowing the offshoring of most industry
It’s not just industry. Now they’re killing the development of skills and knowledge in engineering (hardware, software) and design
The problem is systemic, it didn’t start with Trump. He’s just way more flagrant.
Especially when you see some of the tech being rocked in Asian cities
This admin has set the USA back 100 years.
Again. They already enshrined “billionaires get all the money” in the one legislative victory of trumps first term.
But… but… those good ol’ days felt so good! We need to relive those days!
I own BYD and it is a great car. Very pleased with it.
Heard it can be hard / expensive if you need to order spare parts and stuff like that. Anything to that?
how many cameras does it have? be pleased about all your, and your neighbourhoods everydays be uploaded to china, to train face recognition and whatever else
I hate teslas, but byd’s are not even slightly better in my eyes.
I don’t like the feeling that we may never see a consumer friendly EV anymore, but only ones that exploit their users in any ways they can
Hitler was “incendiary” and “political” but I think there’s a four-letter word so much better, so much more concise, that this wording is actual disinformation.
Journalists do Nazi what you’re talking about.
CNBC didn’t here. So it’s a lie.
as customers switch to Chinese EVs
Sure. That’s the reason.
I don’t think that’s what they meant. I think they are just saying that people are still buying EVs, but they are just going to Chinese and other manufacturers instead of buying a Tesla. The article specifically calls out the stupid shit Elon has been doing.
Not even sure it’s that true though. Afaik BYD is only the 14th most popular car in Denmark, and European brands have risen from around ~28% last year to ~40% this year. Sure, Chinese carmakers have had some growth - but we’re talking in the order of something between 2 - 4% of the market. Might be more popular in other countrues
Which is important because about a year ago the headlines were saying EV sales were collapsing. In fact, it was just Tesla having less market share of new EVs sold because other manufacturers got off their ass.
Ah. Good to know- I didn’t read the article, but that’s kind of my point, really. Most people don’t, and media outlets know that. The headline is all that “carries”. A better headline would include the Nazi stuff AND Chinese EVs. I think they deliberately avoided that and tucked it in the article.
The headline to me clearly is stating that people are not buying Teslas and are buying alternative Chinese based EVs instead. I think that anyone that’s heard Elon’s name over the past 6 months can read between the lines and understand the causation here.
Well - I would hope. But that’s not the same as putting it in there is it.
“Tesla sales drop as EU consumers choose Chinese brands plus Musk is y’know WINK”
I mean, I can see why they didn’t go with that one but still. There are plenty of people who don’t understand Elmo is an out-and-out nazi, cozy with putin and Peter Thiel and will destroy the country as soon as possible. Not mentioning him and his drugged-out asinine ideas in the headline is a missed opportunity.
The title isn’t there to tell the whole story though. It should give a high level summary and then the details are in the article. If you hypothetically put something like what you suggested, it still doesn’t give all of the context, and the title would need to be longer to include the history of Musk, his drug use, his position with Tesla, etc, and you can’t put that all in the title. I’m all for dunking on that Nazi whenever we can, but I personally don’t think that the title of this article deserves any criticism, especially in the age of clickbait titles that don’t give anything, this one is decently descriptive.
I’ll give you that. I just want more. Elmo’s such a stain that not factoring it directly to Tesla-going-down stories seems like skimping.
My dude you can’t admit you didn’t read the article then defend the fact that you didn’t read it like that. Just read it and then comment lol
My comment is about the headline. Yes?
I read that. Everyone read that. That’s what my comment is referring to.
You could just say, “you’re right, I probably should have.”
Try it sometime, it’s nice.
“the headline is wrong”
Wahhhh you didn’t read the article!
“that’s true. you’re right. I probably should have. Where I would then return to the single sentence that I’m referring to and nothing will have changed. Do you even understand what I’m talking about? Because that would be nice.”
i hate musk, but i am not wild about our dependence on china either, so i am not really sure who to root for in this fight…
Root for better public transport and active cities instead of car dependency :)
Living in the boonies, I’m never going to get a bus going by every ten minutes so a solid market for good EVs is still what I root for.
Of course, public transport has a limit and we can root for both as well, including protected bike lanes even in the boonies like we successfully see in the Netherlands
The public transport bus I take to and from work is a Chinese made electric. It’s a Yutong E15.
I remember that one getting tested in my hometown.
How common are these in Denmark? 😮 don’t feel like I’ve seen one, but then again it’s not like I study the make before I get in the bus
i am lucky, my city has excellent public transport, that doesn’t stop people from using cars though. be it because of pure habit, or because public transport is not solution for everything.
so i’d rather if our european car industry wasn’t decimated by the chinese one.
I don’t want to be like China though /s
I would say go with whatever company that doesn’t have a CEO throwing Nazi salutes.
Yeah, the Chinese manufacturers are out to make money, and at least we know what to expect from them.
Besides, being profitable usually means making a better product than your competitors.
I don’t know that they’re out to make money though. A lot of the Chinese manufacturers are now struggling due to the price war they instigated themselves. Huge production surplus but they pushed down the price so much they hardly make any money
I think a lot of it is also growing their market share and establishing their brand.
Brand recognition is important, but it’s a dangerous game operating mostly on government subsidies. Once you have established low prices it’s hard to reverse it
GASP!
You mean… Proper capitalism!?
Okay there’s a ton of spyware in the car, but - just . . don’t . . . connect it. Or whatever.
I suspect you know this, and your post is sarcastic. But just in case:
Most cars have their own embedded SIMs nowadays. They’re already connected. You can’t disconnect them.
Which of them are you talking about?
Yes
Right.
i am afraid it is just that most CEOs are sane enough to keep their embarrassing moments for their private life. do you think musk is the only narcissistic psychopath on drugs in the business world?
this is not advocating for musk, but it is important to be grounded in reality ;)
I have no doubt most CEOs are psychopaths, but they also don’t own a global Nazi mouthpiece like twitter, or have more money and resources than several small nations.
Feet firmly planted in reality, thanks. You definitely sound like your advocating for musk.
I would say go with whatever company that doesn’t have a CEO throwing Nazi salutes.
I have no doubt most CEOs are psychopaths, but they also don’t own a global Nazi mouthpiece like twitter
So did you mean “CEOs not throwing a Nazi salute” or “CEOs whose Nazi salutes don’t show up on your twitter feed”?
It seems you forgot what your argument is in a span of two rebuttals
You definitely sound like your advocating for musk.
You should work on your reading comprehension then
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To be fair, I think most of USA is on recreational drugs, legal, illegal, or “prescription”. That shouldn’t matter as much compared to his other actions.
what he does in his free time is one thing (i don’t care about that), being high when he is
working for a governmentruining people’s lives and jobs is another.
So support the country committing a genocide against the uyghurs? Because you think a salute is worse than a Holocaust, got it.
If you don’t see musk as one of the singular greatest threats to this planet, I dunno what to tell you. It is certainly not just the salute, that was just the most public he’s been about his true self. If I recall those Nazis had some thoughts on the Holocaust as well.
I really don’t. Putin, Kim Jong Un, Xi Jinping, all are actual threats. Musk doesn’t even register.
How many of those got up on stage with the seal of the president of the United States and did one of the most identifiable actions of the last true fascist regime? musk was able to spend $250 million to pretend to be president for a few months to kneecap the US government and kill all the investigations into his illegal dealings as well as reward his companies with lucrative government contracts. I’d love to see any of those tinpot dictators and “communist” leaders do that.
Putin is the head of the paper tiger Russia. If they didn’t have nukes the US probably would have steam rolled them back in 2014 when they took Crimea. If the world actually gave Ukraine the weapons and resources to do it, I have no doubt they could be at Moscow’s door in a couple months.
Kim Jung Un is the head of a pariah state who relies on worldwide aide so that his people don’t starve more than they already are starving.
Sure Xi is the head of the state in which there is obviously genocide happening, but he’s not running a car company, which is what this whole article is about.
Riiight. Listen, this isn’t going anywhere. You think a salute is worse than a genocide, musk is a greater threat than dictators with nukes, and there’s no way I’m going to change your mind. I’m going to peace out
In a couple months a drug fueled musk did to the US what Xi and Putin have been trying to do for decades. It most certainly wasn’t just his salute that made me think that.
You could change my mind if you brought any information to the table that shows how those two are worse than musk.
Enjoy your day.
Since you proudly champion the rights of Uyghur people, you are aware that the reeducation camps are closed since about 2022, right?
Hahaha.
As opposed to supporting a country that… (fill in the blanks, there is an infinite supply)
With that level of indirection gymnastics, you can accuse anyone of anything.
(This comment written in the language of a brutally colonizing and genocidal empire.)
Canada?
They speak English too
Competition is good for the consumer. More options from more players will encourage more charging infrastructure and (ostensibly) more innovation. It’s not just Elon Musk vs China. Every automaker that wants to sell cars in the USA is on notice. If they want to compete in the EV subcategory, they need to focus on price and performance. People want budget-conscious EVs.
Not super into cars but is there even any reason other than environmental friendliness to get an EV? Where I’m from, EVs are all wildly expensive compared to their combustion peers and they all frankly look really ugly to me. The coil whine of the EVs also drive me crazy.
Others have addressed your other questions, but I want to add that the “coil whine” that irritates you is probably the car’s slow-moving warning system. EVs are effectively silent at slow speeds because there is no engine noise or road noise, so they are required to make an annoying sound when maneuvering to get your attention. While it is an important safety feature, I agree some are very obnoxious.
I’m not sure if we’re talking about the same sound as it’s so high pitched that most people older than me are unable to even hear it while people my age or younger can clearly identify it. If that’s supposed to be a warning system, it doesn’t seem very good?
I mean, it’s also entirely possible you’ve heard a failing magnetic drive, a humming battery, or a squeeky mechanical thing like brakes or bearings. Those are all strong indicators of a significant problem with the car, and should be fixed immediately. But if you hear it every time, as soon as the car starts moving in a parking lot, that’s the safety feature.
Even the cheap ones accelerate faster, ride smoother, and are quieter. You don’t have to get oil changes, and the brakes don’t wear down as fast. Plus I can recharge at home, which is loads cheaper than buying gasoline.
And this is all with a relatively ancient Nissan Leaf, the new vehicles are all far better.
Oh, and let’s not forget that even very small air quality improvements have noticeable improvements in lung health! Humans were not meant to be breathing gasoline fumes or combustion exhaust.
My government just added a controversial extra tax on EVs because they tear up the roads and cause additional particles, because they are really heavy and most of them have a better than usual torque.
You can really see how road quality went to shit after EVs became mainstream.
Making batteries is also a really ugly business and far from environmental.
I can’t find anything on such a tax?
I feel like there has been an uptick in pro oil bots in the past week. Oil is a pretty ugly business too? What is wrong with you people.
That is not even remotely why they added a tax on EVs. The reason they added the extra tax is because they make a ton of money by taxing gas and as EVs are gaining popularity they’re starting to see their tax revenues plummet. There is a nugget of truth in that some of those tax revenues are used to pay for maintaining the roads and that EVs do still put wear and tear on the roads, but it’s not that they’re destroying roads any more than any other car does.
If you’re seeing a drop in road quality it’s because your government isn’t paying to have the roads maintained like they have in the past, not because there are more EVs driving around.
I live in an area where half the vehicles on the road are pickup trucks and giant SUV’S. A KIA EV2 isn’t doing any added harm to the roads here.
With my cheap over night tarrif (UK) I pay approximately 2p a mile, I’m planning a road trip to Europe soon and have calculated with a pay for discount EV charge card, I’ll average about 14p/mile. I’m saving between £60-£80 a month compared to my old diesel car, which pays off the charger install ~£900 in a year. Diesel price have dropped in the UK since I got mine.
For servicing it’s coolant every 3 years or so, and that pretty much it. We have a MOT in the UK, for every vehicle over 3 years old, then yearly, that covers more than what is needed on the yearly services for my car. Only thing it doesn’t cover is lubricate the charge port, but I think I’m ok with that
Also the cabin noise is almost silent, no gears, constant predictable acceleration, and I can plug anything I want in to the 240v outlet in the back seat
We are in the middle of a crisis. You don’t need an other reason.
You can either look ugly in an EV or drive straight towards dystopia in a cool looking ICE vehicle.
I mean I’m personally a public transport kinda person. I live somewhere where a car is really just a status symbol since even the cheapest car costs at least roughly 90k USD and most people take public transport.
They make decent “point A to point B” cars, but that’s about it. They take a long time to charge, and when that battery is due for replacement, it might just total the car.
They make decent “point A to point B” cars
which is, coincidentally, what most people need from a car ;)
It’s been shown again and again that evs require less maintenance.
Everywhere is depndent on China, buy the car that isnt overtly a fascist car. They also suck.
buy the car that isnt overtly a fascist car.
that isn’t really an argument in favor of china 😂
China famously doesn’t have a far-right problem, unlike the EU or the USA, what are you talking about?
unless you for some reason like leftist dictator who would like to rule the world more than the right one, there isn’t really practical difference in this
China would love so much to rule the world, that’s why it hasn’t entered any war in the past 40+ years, and that’s why all countries in the global south are happy to enter the comparably advantageous economic deals and infrastructure investments that China offers in comparison with the magnificent western democracies.
How many countries has China bombed in the past 40 years? Let’s now make a list for the USA, see who wins!
As for “dictator”, look at the approval rates of Xi in China and compare them to those of Kid Starver in the UK, Trump in the US, or Macron in France. I guess democracy is best represented by the system that lets you choose which hateful ghoul will apply social austerity policy and invest 5% of GDP in NATO.
The article title is a bit sensational. The share of the market for all Chinese EV is 5,6%. It’s not ( yet ? ) a tsunami.
Telsas total european market share this month is 1.2%, down from 1.8% last may. The chinese market share is 5.9%, not 5.6%.
5.9% vs 1.2% is a 5x sales rate for chinese cars versus Teslas. According to the article, china doubled its EU market share in the last year, while Tesla lost 30% of its market share in the same time period.
The title is not sensational. If anything, your comment is a bit misleading by not listing the tesla EU market share.
You are comparing Tesla, a full electric car maker to « Chinese cars » which includes multiple brands and all engine types. Only one-third of the cars that the Chinese carmakers sold in Europe during the first quarter were electric.
Currently only proper options for EV is either Tesla, Korean EV’s (KIA, Hyundai) or Chinese. European and japanese EV’s are imo shit at the moment. Teslas I will avoid like plague, due to Nazis. KIA’s and Hyundai’s are so hard to get, so I am really considering getting BYD, Polestar or XPeng.
Plenty of good European EVs as well. From a Porsche Taycan to a Dacia Spring, a wide selection. Including wagons/combis and vans.
The Japanese also have good ones, especially Nissan. Leaf and Ariya are decent. Honda kinda gave up and Toyota is indeed terrible, even the Lexus line is behind.
The small Renault’s are actually more than decent EVs and can be compared to the Hyundai Inster.(With the later being the closest to a “high quality EV for everyone” I have seen. Fantastic car, small, comparable cheap, secure. They need to get a bit cheaper still,but we are getting closer)
If you are filthy rich the Porsches are decent, same goes for some of the BMW. The Nissan Arya is also okayish, so are Mercedes.
But yeah, Korea has the absolute king of the hill atm. I drive an EV6 (pre facelift). And honestly? It’s the most “fun” and “comfortable” car I ever had - and I used to have lots of expensive company cars in the past (Audi A4,A5,A6, BMW 5, Volvo), often with "lights and sirens " installed and drove Seat,Skoda,Hyundai, Volvo privately.
None of them were as fun. None of fhem were as versatile and comfortable. And funny enough I safe enormous amounts of money.
And all the downsides people worry about? So far I didn’t have any.
Charging? Absolutely no issue - beside the fact that my sparky is shit and I still don’t have a home box (but a 200 bucks mobile box off Amazon helps). Even with long distances it’s no issue - even in remote locations I had a chance to charge,often easier to find than petrol. And on regular trips it takes as much time to go to the toilet and get me a coffee. Which I would also do with petrol… So in fact I save a few minutes. Even under these circumstances I pay half compared to what I payed for petrol.
Battery issues? The car is used. So far: Zero degradation. We had it assessed by a professional company recently.
The only two issues it has: Preconditioning is somewhat random (which has been solved with the facelift) and the fact that the drivers profile is not based on the key sucks.
The Ford Mach E is a good EV.
Only heard good things about them, but aren’t they few generation’s old now. Not that next gen is always better, but EV’s have gone quite big generational steps.
Edit: and for context I drove Seat Mii at the moment and I love it to pieces, but it works only in city, not long range.
I think it would be silly to assume Ford isn’t updating the Mach E as it continues to produce it.
Why’s that? I drove a Cupra Born last week, pretty decent imo. I also drove a VW ID3 and a BMW i3. So far the only European EV I didn’t like was the Audi e-tron. I haven’t driven a Korean or Chinese EV yet, so I can’t really compare. What do you prefer about them?
I currently drive Seat Mii, which is good small EV for city, but for long ranges VW and BMW are behind. Audi’s EV have been disasters. Cupras look good, but because I already have small EV, it doesn’t fit my use case .
ID’s could be ok, but they are over priced in my opinion (at least here).
Edit: for context id4’s starting price is 43k€ here in Finland. 60k€ for id7.
Edit2: Ok started looking those Chinese brands prices also if you buy them here and they are also priced in same range, so ID might be option then also
I have a Cadillac lyriq and I love it.
Eh, ID7 and A6 are getting there. BMW i4 ain’t bad either.
All those are unfortunately so expensive here that I can only dream. And in my opinion over priced also.
I think it also has to do with the economy, not just nazi salutes. Its a bad job market, people dont have money, so luxary cars are not going to be attractive.
Also there is hardly any reason to buy a Tesla… Volvo recharge and others are better cars, made by actual car companies with a good reputation for quality.
it definitely has to do when musk being a nazi.
Tesla used to be the brand, the good quality car, the one that you want to get.
(at least that was how the public saw it, car affictionados don’t count)
now it’s just cringe
Tesla has NEVER been the good quality car. Ever.
Tesla was the techy car. The fast car. The fun car. The virtue signaling car. The convienent car. Lots of things, but they have never been the good quality car.
Telsa used to be a status symbol, and sexy.
But then their chief chap couldn’t seem to publicly pronounce the popular phrase “Nazi’s suck and I wish to have nothing to do with them”.
Now Telsa is an anti-status symbol.
There are plenty of Europeans that still have money. These are aimed at the upper upper classes and people in those strata have not been feeling the economic pinch the way many of us have.
Idk why are you being downvoted. Musk being a nazi is the last of the problems for Tesla. They had being outcompete by BYD in every measure.
Me, my friends, my colleagues are the target audience for Model 3/Y’s. I drive a Model 3 and some colleagues do as well. Pretty much all of them and myself say the same thing: The cars top the list in terms of value versus price and has the features we want and need, but we will not buy or (company) lease a Tesla (again) due to the nazi in charge. Simple as that.
At this point, people don’t even take Tesla’s into consideration anymore due to the nazi. So I would say that’s far worse than the competition with BYD.
