“After extensive consultation, discussion, and deliberation, the American Muslim 2024 Election Task Force has decided to encourage American Muslims to vote for any presidential candidate of their choosing who supports a permanent ceasefire in Gaza and a US arms embargo on the Israeli government, such as candidates Dr Jill Stein, Dr Cornel West or Chase Oliver,” read the statement, obtained by Middle East Eye.
The statement was written by the American Muslim 2024 Election Task Force, an umbrella group formed this year that consists of a number of prominent Muslim organisations including the political arms of Americans for Justice in Palestine (AJP), Cair, and the US Council of Muslim Organizations.
“We cannot endorse Vice President Kamala Harris’ candidacy because of her refusal to even consider imposing the arms embargo on the Israeli government required by US laws and her failure to promise any other changes whatsoever to President Biden’s failed policy of steadfast financial, diplomatic and military support for Israel’s genocide in Gaza,” the statement read.
And if they bleed away enough people from Harris, that guarantees a Trump win. A 3rd party cannot win. The only alternative to Harris is Trump.
You know, the guy who wants Israel to kill people faster:
https://apnews.com/article/trump-biden-israel-pr-hugh-hewitt-21faee332d95fec99652c112fbdcd35d
“They’re losing the PR war. They’re losing it big. But they’ve got to finish what they started, and they’ve got to finish it fast, and we have to get on with life.”
Who wants to revoke the citizenship from Americans:
https://www.aclu.org/documents/trump-administrations-plan-strip-citizenship-thousands-americans
Detain them in concentration camps:
And do the same thing to Mexico that Israel does to Lebanon:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_occupation_of_Southern_Lebanon
Sounds like Harris needs to try to win back disaffected Muslim-Americans turned away by her promise to continue genocide.
No, it sounds like disaffected people need to stop helping Trump win and start thinking.
Ah yes, it’s never the candidate’s fault. Only the voters can be to blame.
Democrats can never fail, they can only be failed
Easy to say when you aren’t the target. It is the job of a politician to win over voters they are shedding.
Your line of thinking is that over half of Muslim-American voters simply “aren’t thinking,” which borders on racist. Instead, think about why they are doing what they are doing, and how that can change.
Saying that people aren’t thinking isn’t how we should be having this discussion. The Israeli government, military, and many of its citizens are acting as a terrorist nation. Palestine should be a free country instead of one oppressed and murdered by its neighbors. These attacks should not be supported, funded, or supplied by any country, especially one that claims to value democracy (and yet continually acts against those values). The UN overwhelmingly supports all of the above. The US is wrong here. The US needs to change its stance.
The US is political system is a two party system. It truly truly sucks that we do not have a ranked choice voting system. Currently, voting in national elections for a third party is only effectively denying a vote to one of the two major parties. (Local elections are a different story and the only way to possible route to national change of our two party system is to start locally.)
Neither viable candidate has a good stance on Palestine. Of the two viable candidates, it should be obvious which one will have less negative impact on racial and religious minorities. It should also be obvious which candidate could possibly change their incorrect stance on Palestine once reaching office. I’m not saying there’s a large possibility, I’m saying ANY possibility.
If all Americans were required to vote, and could only vote for one of the two major parties, which candidate do you think the vast majority of Muslim-Americans would vote for? In the world where you can choose to not vote, or support a candidate that literally has no chance of winning, all you’re doing is lowering the total number of votes for the candidate who closer aligns with your values. Yes, that’s the lesser of two evils. Yes, that does mean voting for someone who hasn’t taken a stance against the genocide currently happening. Yes, it feels awful to support someone that you don’t agree with on such an important topic. The alternative is worse.
When protesting against our country’s stance on Israel and Palestine (which I will do until people are free from the river to the sea), I would much rather be protesting against someone with a shred of empathy rather than someone who is likely to engage the military to use deadly force and brutal repression against us who protest.
The Israeli government, military, and many of its citizens are acting as a terrorist nation. Palestine should be a free country instead of one oppressed and murdered by its neighbors. These attacks should not be supported, funded, or supplied by any country, especially one that claims to value democracy (and yet continually acts against those values). The UN overwhelmingly supports all of the above. The US is wrong here. The US needs to change its stance.
Why does the US support Israel, and why has it for so long? The answer will show the course we need to take.
The US is political system is a two party system. It truly truly sucks that we do not have a ranked choice voting system. Currently, voting in national elections for a third party is only effectively denying a vote to one of the two major parties. (Local elections are a different story and the only way to possible route to national change of our two party system is to start locally.)
It does more than that, it signals where people are willing to vote.
Neither viable candidate has a good stance on Palestine. Of the two viable candidates, it should be obvious which one will have less negative impact on racial and religious minorities. It should also be obvious which candidate could possibly change their incorrect stance on Palestine once reaching office. I’m not saying there’s a large possibility, I’m saying ANY possibility.
Neither candidate has any possibility of changing unless they fear losing the election because of it. The genocide isn’t a moral choice, but economic.
If all Americans were required to vote, and could only vote for one of the two major parties, which candidate do you think the vast majority of Muslim-Americans would vote for?
If we lived in such a dictatorship, then I believe Muslim-Americans would join Leftists in organizing outside of the electoral system and help build up Dual Power.
When protesting against our country’s stance on Israel and Palestine (which I will do until people are free from the river to the sea), I would much rather be protesting against someone with a shred of empathy rather than someone who is likely to engage the military to use deadly force and brutal repression against us who protest.
Neither have a shred of empathy, and Tim Walz sent in the National Guard to disappear BLM protestors under Trump. Neither are good, both are evil, neither care.
So what are you going to do about it, and why is that better than making a choice between one of the two candidates that will definitely be in office in less than 4 months?
Organize with my fellow leftists and continue to push for Revolution, which we know factually works, rather than trying to push for reform, which we know factually doesn’t work.
I’ll probably end up voting for Claudia De La Crúz of PSL.
It sounds like the Democrats need to stop aiding and abetting genocide if they want their votes.
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Problem: She’s not advocating for continued genocide:
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/harris-face-black-journalists-questions-philadelphia-2024-09-17/
Speaking in Philadelphia to the National Association of Black Journalists, she called for a ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian Hamas militants, a two-state solution and Middle East stability in a way that does not empower Iran.
Repeatedly:
https://www.npr.org/2024/08/23/g-s1-19232/kamala-harris-israel-gaza-dnc
She and President Biden are still pushing for a cease-fire deal that sees the hostages released, the fighting in Gaza to end and so “Palestinian people can realize their right to dignity, security, freedom and self determination.”
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn0lx2xgn55o
Ms Harris said “far too many” civilians had been killed "yet again"and reiterated calls for a hostage deal and a ceasefire, echoing comments made by the White House.
None of that is “pro-genocide”.
The Biden admin has corrupted “ceasefire” to mean “pause in the fighting to get the hostages back”. Biden has made a big show of cursing out Bibi on the phone and other performative bullshit, but he has not strayed from Israel’s side even as they’ve betrayed him and promoted Trump. Harris is the same, giving lip service to human rights activists and bombs to genociders.
No, Harris and the Biden administration are pretending to push for a ceasefire deal, and Harris is pretending to give a shit about Palestinian civilians. They could have stopped this at any time with a phone call; it’s been done before.
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You’re such a tiresome dumbass. Somehow I’m a “Russian account,” despite having been born, raised, and still living in the US.
You’re just a annoying troll.
$ curl -s 'https://lemmy.ml/api/v3/modlog?limit=50&other_person_id=8274625' \ > | jq 'pick(.banned, .banned_from_community, .removed_posts, .removed_comments) | keys[] as $k | .[$k] | length' \ > | paste -s -d+ - | bc 73
How do you achieve those things without a weapons embargo? Harris has said that there will never be an embargo.
She hasn’t even given the vaguest clue as to what her plan is. She’s just “working on it”. “24/7”, she says, and yet she somehow still has time to go to rallies.
To add insult to injury, the Democrats wouldn’t even allow a Palestinian-American to speak during their convention. They allowed a bunch of Republicans to speak, but not a single Palestinian-American Democrat.
I heard the speech that the Palestinian-American rep wanted to give. There was nothing in it that should’ve upset the DNC. It didn’t even mention an embargo!
If the Democrats keep spitting in your face, how long do you keep giving them your votes?
This is a continuation of Biden’s genocidal policies, not a new promise to end the genocide. The DNC is losing heavily in optics, so they are trying to fight optics with empty promises while maintaning unending support for Israel’s “Right to Defend Itself.” If you have any knowledge of Israel’s existence as a settler-colonial apartheid state, or why the US will always support it, then you know that Harris’s promises are hollow and empty, and signify continued genocide.
Here’s a simple thought experiment: why has the US historically supported Israel, and how would that change?
And what about Trump winning is going to make that better? I don’t get it.
If you can’t understand how holding candidates accountable is important, then what else is there to tell you. This isn’t about Trump making anything better, it’s about withholding vote from a candidate that does not represent you.
Nothing. Harris won’t make it better either, both major candidates support genocide.
Ah yes. BoTh SIDes are completely the same. You’re not even slightly offended by calls to “Finish them” from the republicans? Written on an Israeli bomb?
They talk differently, but you have yet to identify how that is not also what Harris wants
Does it make the bomb stronger? If Harris cries when the next shipment goes, does it misfire?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Israel_in_the_Israel–Hamas_war
What they are saying and what they are doing differ. Not only they are evil but they are also liars. They are lying to you too jordanlund.
Starts off saying Trump is worse and then turns to straight up lying and misinformation. Classic.
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Indeed. Only Democrats would be as hypocritical pretend to be pro-Palestine while actually advocating for the Genocide of Palestinians.
I think you’re confusing me with Nikki “Finish them” Haley and Donald J “King of Israel” Trump.
Everyone who disagrees with me that genocide is intolerable is actually a conspirator
Come on, say Russian bot, I’m almost there!
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They are equally pathetic statements. You can’t reconcile the idea of someone having a position to your left, so they must secretly be to your right!
He does recycle actual Russian propaganda though. If you call him out on it, he deletes it and pretends it never happened. I caught him out three times.
Problem: She’s not advocating for continued genocide
Have you seen the vassal state comment up thread? He thinks the US has absolute control over Israel and that the war in Gaza is an expression of Biden and Harris’ will.
This is not a productive conversation.
Have you seen the vassal state comment up thread? He thinks the US has absolute control over Israel and that the war in Gaza is an expression of Biden and Harris’ will.
Not quite.
Israel is a vassal state. It requires US support to continue genocide. The US supports Israel because Israel serves as a Bulwark for Imperialism in the Middle East to help ensure US Interests are respected. The genocide in Gaza is specifically a result of the entire Zionist project of Settler-Colonialism. It isn’t an expression of Biden and Harris’ will, but of their undying loyalty to the economic interests of the US Empire.
Consider reading To stop Marx, they made Zion. Zionism is Antisemetic, fascist, and predicated on genocide.
Zionism is Antisemetic, fascist, and predicated on genocide.
An ethno-state is fascist? Who would’ve thought?
As far as being antisemitic…if you love people, you don’t want to ship them off to some faraway country in the middle of the desert. It’s basically saying “Hey, we don’t want to deal with antisemitism in our country, so could you all just move to this other country instead? K thanx.”
White supremacists and other racists love ethno-states. They think that every country should be like Israel. In fact, they want to turn the US into a country like Israel, except based around whiteness instead of Jewishness.
The random capitals really sell it.
You can lead a liberal to analysis, but you can’t make them read, I suppose.
Maybe democrats should’ve thought of that before participating in a genocide.
You know, the guy who wants Israel to kill people faster:
Biden sidestepped around congress twice to shovel guns and bombs to them faster than even the bloodthirsty Zionists in Congress could — who were already themselves bipartisanly moving to do the same. He 100% wanted Gazans wiped off the face of the earth before the elections hit. The only difference between them here is that Trump is being honest (dig that, your “lesser evil” is somehow being more duplicitous and dishonest than Donald Trump). You fixate on rhetoric and ignore tangible actions. Palestinians have said that both parties are the same for them. We can see it in policy. They’re the same for us in most cases, only difference being Trump doesn’t rely on working class margins to be given a mandate like the Democrats do.
Detain them in concentration camps:
So does Biden… In fact, so did Obama. In fact Obama was known amongst immigrant rights groups as the “Deporter-in-Chief” because of how draconian he was in both detainment and deportation policy. And Biden not only didn’t shut down the concentration camps, but deregulated them and allowed for and advertised with state money the private subcontracting of these concentration camps for private profit. Which is somehow worse than Trump was.
I wouldn’t use this talking point because this whole presidency and openly now in-campaign has seen Dems try actively to outflank the Republicans on the right of immigration. He issued an executive order to fully close the border, a thing that was egregious enough that the courts blocked it for Trump. But now that it’s Biden it’s okay by you? Where do your political standards lie? Unless you’re just ill-informed, it feels like you’re just concern-trolling. And like the refugees to Europe, they’re fleeing from the bipartisan destruction, terror, debt-crises, and chaos caused by US empire.
Who wants to revoke the citizenship from Americans:
That’s something he tried in 2018, and while bad, is not ‘unilaterally revoking citizenship of Americans’ like your non-description insinuates, but was the DHS forwarding more denaturalization cases than used to be to the DoJ, where the actual process takes place, as ICE intended to review a lot more cases. These institutions are bipartisanly this way, and we’re seeing how Biden is increasing this regardless. Besides, the scale of this 2018 thing was very small compared to things right now that you’re distracting from; like the current genocide, homicidal and violent and for-profit border policies stricter than even Trump, homicidal nuclear brinksmanship and proxy wars by the democrats which are much more impactful and serious. And besides, Obama also drone striked US citizens. And more US citizens are in bi-partisan-supported prison than any citizenry in any country in history, imprisoned with a profit incentive, where they are in cases legally (read the 13th amendment) worked as slaves in the mass-incarceration prison-industrial complex, whose architect and primary instigator was none other than Joe Biden and the Democrat Clinton administration of which this campaign, now replacement-headed by Top Cop Kamala Handcuffs is a continuing rightward legacy of.
Biden also, incidentally, helped create and push the Patriot act and has never stopped expanding funding and power to the DHS, ICE, NSA, CIA, FBI, Pentagon, etc. Kamala has no intention either, as Black organizers have been raided and burned out by the FBI on false ‘espionage act’ charges under Democrat governance. As anti-genocide protestors for Palestine are being violently repressed and arrested en masse and demonized or infantilized by Kamala, Dems and republicans, and corporate media. As poor people are being brutalized and arrested over $1.75 public transit costs in Democrat New York after the deployment of hundreds of cops to sit and watch turnstyles. As domestic workers are increasingly broken and lumpenized under the guns of of the ever-expanding fascistic police state set up and supported bipartisanly by the institutions and increasingly militarized under both parties. I mean Walz sent an army into Minneapolis to crush uprisings and to protect (mostly white-owned) property and institutions after the police murder of George Floyd, with the old “outside agitators” shtick.
And do the same thing to Mexico that Israel does to Lebanon:
This is incoherent; an empty comparison with surface level understanding (at most) about these nations and their situations. It’s also empty pandering by Trump and the most unhinged handful of Republicans who ride this kind of rhetoric (MTG, Graham, etc.). Trump’s not going to start a war with Mexico, and neither will the military establishment. Just like noone’s going to nuke Iran because the southern-belle-Holden-Bloodfeast that is Lindsay Graham slams his fist and hollers about it to rile up his base, This is a silly thing to get your underwear in knots over, especially when there’s real things you’re avoiding instead.
As far as actions: we’re closer to WW3 than ever, with Biden’s nuclear brinksmanship fueled by arms-dealers; we’re witnessing the most televized genocide in history, a continuation of bipartisan genocidal foreign policy
Biden in his first months of office to keep the region in chaos and suffering after everything they’ve done to keep it so for decades, straight up stole half of Afghanistan’s assets and crushed them with sanctions knowingly killing untellable tens of thousands of Afghan children and counting.
You fixate on rhetoric and ignore action, and by appeasement you serve to legitimize the “two party” charade for all the billionaire imperialist exploiters, racketeers, murderers, and liars who both parties are funded by, speak for, and work for.
V. I. Lenin “Political Parties in Russia”
To see what is what in the fight between the parties, one must not take words at their face value but must study the actual history of the parties, must study not so much what they say about themselves as their deeds, the way in which they go about solving various political problems, and their behaviour in matters affecting the vital interests of the various classes of society—landlords, capitalists, peasants, workers, etc.
The greater the degree of political liberty in a country and the more stable and democratic its representative institutions, the easier it is for the mass of the people to find its bearings in the fight between the parties and to learn politics, i.e., to expose the deception and find out the truth.
Did you forget that Biden isn’t on the ballot anymore?
Smart.
We should give trump another turn… that’ll be good for Muslims I bet.
Hey, bud, I’m betting the actual Muslims who are affected probably have a better grasp of the situation and their values and associated risks/benefits behind their own advocacy and politics than your (presumably highly privileged) disconnected-from-their-struggle self; and inserting yourself to belittle them as if you know better than they theymselfs what’s ‘good for them,’ is a very chauvinist and colonialist outlook and a reinforcement of white supremacist norms and attitudes. You should try listening rather than projecting and belittling.
None of that has anything to do with it.
This is the issue at hand: https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo
There’s a legitimate mathematical limitation on 3rd parties under first past the post voting, the way America does elections. Until we get ranked choice voting and the ability to vote intelligently that it would unlock, failing to vote for Kamala is voting for trump.
“failing to vote for Kamala is voting for trump.”
By that same logic a vote for Harris is a vote against Jill Stein or Cornel West. -I actually like the Green Party, the candidate, and associated policy I’m voting for. –If all you’re concerned about is voting against Trump, then can you honestly argue that you actually like Harris? -I’m betting your answer is ‘no’ seeing that out of ~12 candidates she ranked somewhere behind a wet-blanket in the 2020 Democrat primaries.
failing to vote for Kamala is voting for trump.
No, it’s literally not. A vote for Trump is a vote for Trump. A vote for Cornel West or Jill Stein is exactly a vote for Cornel West or Jill Stein.
If you want to argue the math and the practicality of who people vote for in our current system, fine, but don’t gaslight people by telling them that their vote for one candidate is actually a vote for a different candidate.
No, it’s literally not.
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This has been explained many times
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Learn a second adverb.
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There was an article posted in another magazine thread that spoke about needing to iterate America’s core values. What are they? Freedom to starve and be homeless, or be locked up and become a chattel slave, or work several jobs as s wage slave; freedom of press owned by a handful of superwealthy people and corporations, many of whom are in the energy and arms industries; freedom of low quality food that contain carcinogenic pesticide residues, colors, flavors and growth hormones and routine antibiotics. Freedom to die from easily treatable conditions because you can’t afford care of medications, even if you purchase mandated Medicare?
Justice? For whom? The people who are incarcerated because of fabricated evidence of having to take plea deals because you can’t afford a good lawyer? The ones executed, despite exculpatory evidence? How about executive branch government members who lead insurrection, or legislators that make insider trading legal for themselves but not us, or of the legislative branch who take gifts of great monetary value and have loans forgiven?
How about too big to fail industries?
Freedom of speech? Two tiered.
Profit at the expense of all else; making sure the USD remains the world reserve currency, by manufacturing fake wmds to invade a sovereign nation, so that nation would not convert their UN food-for-oil account from petrodollar to Petroeuro? Taking foreign money to defeat more progressive candidates that would absolutely vote not to support genocide with money, weapons, air support? Conveniently forgetting concern over certain nations’ infatuation with Nazi idealism to continue the tired red scare propaganda?
Guns!
What are America’s core values?
Ummm you’re arguing with a bit/troll. Why waste your time effort.
Unfortunately we have a 2 party system.
A or B
A sucks and B is much worse
Voting for C or abstaining is a passive endorsement of the greater of the two sucks.
—
If you and the Muslim community want to hump for a third party, good, let’s fucken talk about getting that started…
The day AFTER Election Day. —
The day after election day. The day on which you no longer have any leverage.
Liberals and an inability to grasp electoralism. Name a more iconic duo.
Why would anyone who gets elected start catering when they are most unaccountable?
You want a seat at the table you don’t start at the top you start at the bottom.
Where is the Green Party for the three years preceding each presidential election cycle?
I don’t believe green voters expect them to win, nor is it possible to work your way up from the bottom in the US electoral system.
The two party system still allows voters to pressure politicians into appealing to them.
When the amount of people withholding their vote grows large enough, one of the two parties will cave to win over their vote. They cannot win an election on thin air.
The question now is whether this important swing-state voter group is appealing enough for Democrats to cave, or they believe they can beat Trump without them.
Today is after election day, buddy. You had your chance to listen to those actually effected by trump and Biden. You didn’t and think everyone magically forgot what trump was like, so you try to scare monger so your chosen neoliberal nightmare grey’s elected and nothing improves ever.
Both candidates are shit, one is way worse
Do what you want, obviously, it’s just stupid in my opinion to enable the worst possible choice directly or indirectly. Unless you don’t live here, then I guess it matters less, maybe not at all… except if you’re Greenland and trump tries to buy you again, then you’re screwed 🤷♂️
There is always one that is “way worse” to one side of sycophants or the other. That is the exclusive reason we have the political system we do. Voting for one neoliberal or the other will never improve things.
Yeah, good luck dude
Hope doing the exact same thing again works out differently for you.
I don’t know, if Iceland were doing something that would impact me, I don’t know if I have a good enough grasp on Icelands political system to make good strategic decisions.
The idea that because someone is hurt by something they would automatically know the best course of action is sorta nonsense. If a bear attacks me and a biologist that studies bears shouts advice at me, going “you fucking chauvinist colonialist asshole, the bear isn’t even attacking you, stay in your lane!” is probably a bad course of action.
America, one of the most powerful nations on earth, has one of the weirdest compromise ass backwards electoral systems on earth. I imagine a lot of Palestinians trying to survive right now aren’t having a ton of free time to brush up on the mechanics of the electoral college and the nuances of electoral politics. When the people they trust to do that in their name tell them “adopt a strategy that means your voice will be completely silenced” it might be a good time to assess whether or not they got that one right.
Did you just assume their religion?!? And nationality? And race?
Shut the fuck up.
They want Trump to get elected? Because this is how you get Trump elected.
Yeup. Who would’ve thought that supporting genocide would come back to bite you in the ass, huh?
Are any of these people actually relevant? Because this is not how you get your way, so I really hope they are not representing any actual constituent communities.
What do you propose Muslim-Americans do to stop genocide?
Either way, Muslim-Americans make up a significant population in Michigan, enough to sway the swing state. Harris is playing with fire with her commitment to maintaining the Party Line on genocide.
I think you can figure this one out if you try.
Telling your members to vote third party six weeks before the election is the exact opposite of that.
This is saying “we have no power, we give up”.
Voting for Harris is saying “we have no power, we give up”. It’s allowing the Democratic Party to deteriorate further into an imperialist party. They’re going to get so much worse if they come to believe they can kill unlimited Palestinians and face zero consequences.
And what would the Republican response be? The exact same, or even worse, they care even less about people in general unless they are millionaire donors.
Because no third party is winning this election, so those are the two actual results possible. Any other choice won’t accomplish anything at all, no matter what you keep telling yourself. In the real world, at this time, voting for a 3rd party doesn’t teach the major parties anything. It just throws your vote away. Which you are free to do, but don’t think you’re somehow better than others voting for a candidate that could actually be in office. 3rd party candidates can say whatever they want, they’ll never have to actually follow through on any of it.
If Democrats win despite doing genocide, they will also get worse. It will prove they can kill as many people as they want and face zero consequences, and they will absolutely take full advantage and double down.
The Republican response could be worse, but as a result of Trump the Democrats would be forced to oppose them. I don’t hold out hope that Democrats finally reject Israel but the pro-Palestinian caucus within the Party will become much stronger while the pro-Israel caucus weakens.
Do not forget Trump oversaw the largest protest movement in American history. With a little more organization and less reliance on spontaneity we can defeat him while he’s still in office.
With a little more organization and less reliance on spontaneity we can defeat him while he’s still in office.
I want what you’re smoking.
If the rapist gets into office, say goodbye to Ukraine, goodbye to Palestine (remember, his kid is eyeing up property there already) and potentially goodbye to NATO. If the US leaves that, Putin will move further into Europe, and the question of “where will WWIII kick off?” stops being an automatic “in the Middle East”.
Giving 34 Felonies another go at the presidency would be disastrous. For a lot more then just the idiots that voted third party.
If the rapist gets into office
We currently have one in office, another issue Democrat voters rolled over on. MeWho?
If Trump wins he’ll probably just negotiate a surrender where they get to annex Eastern Ukraine. I really doubt Russia has any interest in expanding farther. There’s literally no point. They want a region of Ukraine that is Russian speaking, has a warm water sea port, is rich in natural gas, and is a breadbasket. Plus, a buffer zone against NATO.
They’re not, like, cartoon villains.
The Republican response is irrelevant because we have no power to move them.
We may have some, however slight, power to move Democrats.
I think you can figure this one out if you try.
Seems like you’re hinting that they should just accept that genocide is a fact of life for Muslims, instead of pressuring to change it. Easy to say when you aren’t the target.
Telling your members to vote third party six weeks before the election is the exact opposite of that.
Stein has been polling ahead of Harris for months with Muslim-American voters, this isn’t a new thing. Harris has had the time and information to pivot, and hasn’t.
Seems like you’re hinting that they should just accept that genocide is a fact of life for Muslims, instead of pressuring to change it.
Hell no. But this is politics. Taking your ball and going home gets you nothing.
If you have the power to swing Michigan you are the most important voters in the election that don’t live in Pennsylvania. You can leverage that into a deal.
But you are going to have to be clear that you’re asking. “Stop the genocide” isn’t it. She’s not the one killing people. The only person that can actually stop the genocide is Bibi. He’s not on the ballot in November. You have to make an ask and it’s gotta be clear and it’s got to be something that you can realistically get.
Also, the other guys need to be convinced you can hold up your own side of the deal. Can you deliver Michigan? Or are you just posturing?
The way I see it, this statement gets no progress on the first, and actively harms the second. After this statement, an endorsement from them would be worse than useless. If these organizations can’t deliver Michigan, the campaign will just roll the dice with the “moderates”.
This statement is political malpractice.
Easy to say when you aren’t the target.
What the actual fuck dude.
If you have the power to swing Michigan you are the most important voters in the election that don’t live in Pennsylvania. You can leverage that into a deal.
That’s what they are doing. Promising unconditional support for Harris despite her pushing for continued genocide has no leverage.
But you are going to have to be clear that you’re asking. “Stop the genocide” isn’t it. She’s not the one killing people. The only person that can actually stop the genocide is Bibi. He’s not on the ballot in November. You have to make an ask and it’s gotta be clear and it’s got to be something that you can realistically get.
Israel is a vassal state that depends on the support of the US. Absolving the US of the deeds of the vassal it provides weapons and munitions for is wrong, the deeds require the support of the US to continue.
What the actual fuck dude.
Talk to Muslim-Americans. They aren’t stupid, or lacking in critical thinking. The ones voting Green are doing so because they can’t support genocide, and realize that witholding support is the only way to force any kind of hand.
That’s what they are doing. Promising unconditional support for Harris despite her pushing for continued genocide has no leverage.
No. They are telling their constituent to vote third party as early voting is getting underway. They are literally setting fire to their political capital while there’s still six weeks to figure out something that both sides can be happy with.
Israel is a vassal state that depends on the support of the US.
I mean, if you truly believe that then I guess the whole system is compromised and you gotta burn it all down. But it’s not something that has actual salience outside conspiratorial circles and the people that amplify them for their own ends.
No. They are telling their constituent to vote third party as early voting is getting underway. They are literally setting fire to their political capital while there’s still six weeks to figure out something that both sides can be happy with.
They are standing their ground. Harris can reach out at any time she wants and change course.
I mean, if you truly believe that then I guess the whole system is compromised and you gotta burn it all down.
I mean, correct. Do you disagree?
But it’s not something that has actual salience outside conspiratorial circles and the people that amplify them for their own ends.
You sure? It’s quite salient among actual Palestinians, if you’d for once listen to them, which cascades to Muslim-American voters which cascades to swing-state results and the overall US Federal election.
What are you even talking about? They are making concrete demands, one of them being an arms embargo which Kamala has said won’t happen. The way a deal works is if the other side doesn’t accept your offer you don’t just cave and perform your side of the bargain. And judging by the fact that Kamala hasn’t proposed anything other than the same vague support for a ceasefire Biden has shown they haven’t even tried to push for anything else that might satisfy this constituency.
You can leverage that into a deal.
They tried. Nothing happened. Because to the Democrats supporting Israel is more important than winning in November.
… or they don’t really have the power to deliver their “base” vote anyway.
This press release stinks like one of those “I must discover where my people are going so that I can lead them” schticks.
… or they don’t really have the power to deliver their “base” vote anyway.
Uh… They do. Muslims are one of the groups that have the most to lose from a Trump victory; it’s just that Harris refuses to budge on the one thing making them unable to vote for her.
No Muslim country is helping Palestine.
Lebanon, Yemen, Iran. Read up.
You need to read more yourself. Yemen takes none. There are camps in Lebanon but the people remain stateless. And so on … Just some basic googling will help you learn.
Do some more than basic googling.
Are you lying intentionally here or are you just completely ignorant?
There are, but they’re all Iran-aligned, because the others have been bought out by the US. Read some history.
This is basically a self fulfilling prophecy. People are told that they can only vote for one of the two parties which makes every other candidate irrelevant.
CAIR and USCMO are the biggest Muslim organizations in the U.S. In negotiations Democrats were unwilling to make any concessions for Palestine. Voting for Harris anyway would be counterproductive.
Trump does have a plan to end the suffering of the Palestinians, forever.
Trump doesn’t have any plans. He just does whatever dumb bullshit pops in his head.
Yeah, the same one Harris does, because they both unconditionally support the genocide! It’s not like Trump would invade Palestine (short of a broader regional conflict)
BlueMAGA out in force against this article
Good, appeasement of BlueMAGA fash never works.
These are OBVIOUS Blue Maga trying to get Trump Elected! I mean, what’s Harris supposed to do, NOT Endorse a Country bombing Schools and Orphanages? That’s RIDICULOUS!
Hey look, it’s the person that’s exactly what they are sarcasticly talking about. Throw away your vote if you want. It don’t work that way here.
Removed by mod
Yall please report comments like this in the future (denigrating US Muslims for not being “enlightened” enough to vote for the party that’s bombing the Arab world).
Will Gaza even be habitable in 50 yrs after Trump is elected when enough people vote third party?
My assumption is this is a negotiating tactic with the Harris campaign as no serious person believes a third party candidate will win, and if they actually believe Trump would be better for their cause they might as well endorse him.
Unfortunately Harris is in a tough spot. If she doesn’t remain vaguely aligned with the current admins policy on Gaza, she’s going to undermine whatever efforts are currently underway towards a cease-fire.
Let me just say to those who say voting for a third party candidate is a waste of a vote, it is not. Either way, the person who wins will see how many votes that candidate got, and will know that that is the way many people FEEL about a specific issue. Then they will have to cater to that view in someway.
Extremely naive, that doesn’t actually happen.
No? What has Biden’s position on the border or economy been? You really want to tell me the Biden Administration or its successors aren’t banking on that? Or that right now tfg isn’t avoiding the question about abortion, because his party members that ran against pro-choice lost in swing states like Arizona and Nevada?
Wrong, electoral college has you on rails in the U.S. there are no thirds and never have been.
WeLl AcKThUaLLy, Ross Perot got really close in the 1992 &1996 election and his views on taxing the wealthy to eleminate national debt were followed through by the Clinton administration, the last administration that had a surplus, not a deficit, that Al Gore wanted to put in a lockbox. But yeah, if it weren’t for the electoral college, Gore would have been elected, and we’d probably be better off rn
How many electoral votes did ole Ross get?
Since tankies thrive on open questions I will answer myself. 0 , H. Ross Perot got 0 electoral votes in his only full candidacy for president. That is the % chance that a third party candidate has in the U.S. For anyone not familiar with U.S. elections that wishes to chime in.
My point was that voting for a third party still makes your voice heard, regardless if your guy won or not. Even Bush jr had to acknowledge climate change, and the Biden administration is struggling with the border issue. An issue Republicans voted for… on a guy that lost. Their voice is still being heard, and represented even though their guy is running away from jail atm.
But since fascists like saying opposition to one party monopolies or duopolies is futile or the norm, I’ll say, it’s not. It’s the way a democracy should work. Many parties ruling instead of just one or two, people having their voices heard (not just old people).
So, you’re asking Democrats to make their voice heard and not vote Kamala. Who’s gonna be the one to answer then?
Put any spin you want on it, a vote against Kamala is a vote for Trump. Now shush you insipid tankie.
A vote is a vote, and why would you vote for a candidate you think wouldnt represent your values or you?
Your calling me a tankie is no different than Trump calling Kamala a Marxist.
Wrong again, you belong to this movement of voter suppression tactics and you’re showing that your anti- democratic arguments actually fall right in line with right wing vote suppression tactics . Keep using your shield of equivalency. I call it like I see it.
Feel free to check, I’ve been called y’all out since day one of the respectable Ms. Harris’s candidacy
Haaaaahahahhahaaaaahhaahahhaahahhaaahahahahhaaaaaa. That’s the funniest joke I’ve heard in a long time. I agree that neither Harris or Trump have the best interests of Palestinians at heart but Harris will make at least some saber rattling to try to stem the bloodshed vs Trump who will be happy to sell more weapons to anyone who wants to wipe Palestine off the map.
Harris will make at least some saber rattling to try to stem the bloodshed
Haaaaahahahhahaaaaahhaahahhaahahhaaahahahahhaaaaaa. That’s the funniest joke I’ve heard in a long time.
Right, cuz she totally has a chance of winning. Yup
Selfish people
Yeah, just because their families and friends are getting killed. So selfish.
Palestinians and those who care about them and middle easterners and islmamic folk of any kind need to realize that they need trump in office. He has pogroms ready and waiting tailor made for you and anyone alive who has experienced one will tell you they are great.
Are you okay?
the key is to look up the definition of pogrom
