• Sunflier@lemmy.worldEnglish
            4·
            5 hours ago

            Communism is the political and economic model where the totality of the individual’s profits are taken by the community for the community’s well being. Socialism is the political and economic model where a society ensures the individual’s well being by providing the basic necessities. Examples of this include food stamps or socialized health care. So, please, impart your wisdom on how I am wrong.

              • Sunflier@lemmy.worldEnglish
                2·
                4 hours ago

                Really? So every other developed country has it and is falling to communism? I am sure their socialized medicine is just the death nail in civilized society. Is that why our healthcare is so expensive and terrible? Maybe they should get with the program and have its citizenry be bankrupted by getting hit by a car.

      • opsecisbasedonwhatEnglish
        33·
        6 hours ago

        How about liberals try not equating Communism and Nazism for once? I bet you own a house.

  • merdaverse@lemmy.world
    25·
    2 days ago

    My mom was just telling me a while ago about how one of her uncles was tortured by the communists after they came to power. Small note: he was a member of the legionnaires, so I can relate to this meme.

  • y0kai@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    242·
    2 days ago

    First they came for the grandfathers and I did not speak out, for my grandfather was a Nazi.

  • belastend@slrpnk.net
    5010·
    2 days ago

    Didn’t know the Cambodians, Polish, Kalmyks, Kazakhs, Tatars, Ukrainians, Anarchists, Left SRs, Trotskyists and Peasants were all Nazis. Must be fun to live in that world.

    • TheTechnician27@lemmy.worldEnglish
      325·
      2 days ago

      The Finns who died defending their homeland from naked, opportunistic Soviet imperialism also wish to say hi.

        • TheTechnician27@lemmy.worldEnglish
          163·
          17 hours ago

          Have you ever – even once – thought that if:

          • The USSR hadn’t started the Winter War under the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact it signed on friendly terms with Nazi Germany to grab more land while the rest of Europe wasn’t in a position to help, killing and wounding tens of thousands of Finns
          • The USSR hadn’t stolen 10% of Finland’s land in exchange for what can generously be described as a “promise” of peace
          • The USSR hadn’t scuttled Finland’s attempts afterward to develop a defensive pact with Norway and Sweden
          • The USSR hadn’t invaded and absorbed the Baltic states as part of the same pact with Nazi Germany
          • The USSR hadn’t demanded mineral rights already given to the UK and then instigated riots in Finland when they didn’t get what they wanted
          • The USSR hadn’t interfered with the December 1940 Finnish election
          • The USSR had offered to return Finland’s land when it realized “oh no, the consequences of my own actions: Finland is allied militarily with Nazi Germany now.”
          • The USSR had been on friendly terms with Finland instead of giving them what every serious historian describes as no realistic opportunity not to ally with Germany

          That maybe they wouldn’t have been forced to ally with Germany in the Continuation War? That Finland might have remained neutral or even joined in with the Allies which the Soviets were a part of? You can even look in the article you’re linking to:

          As a part of the pact, Nazi SS chief Heinrich Himmler insisted that the Finns dispatch [1408] soldiers to the SS Wiking division similar to the volunteers it demanded from Nazi-occupied Belgium, Denmark, the Netherlands, Norway and elsewhere.

          Reluctantly, Finns complied and covertly recruited the first group of 400 SS volunteers to be sent for training.

          The leading Finnish military historians who undertook the probe into the country’s wartime role wrote that those Finnish troops likely witnessed shootings and other atrocities against Jews and other civilians by advancing Nazi troops.

          This was all done reluctantly. The Finns had no ideological alignment with the Nazis; it was done purely out of necessity because of the USSR’s – again – nakedly imperialist actions. You have zero intellectual integrity. None. Your rhetoric relies not on a convincing argument but on the reader’s ignorance. And I’m not even a little surprised to see you sticking up for Putin’s genocidal invasion of Ukraine elsewhere.

          Edit: Also, where the hell did “only doing it to fight communism” come from? I said the exact opposite: that they were doing it in self-defense against Soviet imperialist aggression. What?

            • TheTechnician27@lemmy.worldEnglish
              11·
              14 hours ago

              >“I don’t read revisionism and lies”

              >Quoting the article you fucking linked to and didn’t read past the headline

              • Bloomcole@lemm.ee
                29·
                13 hours ago

                your interpretation of an article and cherrypicking
                And the headline is all that matters.

                Certainly not: FINNISH military historians who undertook the probe into the country’s wartime role wrote… as if those nazi whitewashers are neutral.
                You had a swastika on your luftwaffe until 2017 FFS.
                And your BS answer undoubtedly is: but it was before Hitler used it!
                Again not interested in your revisionism, you were nazis then and still have plenty now. Awful people.
                Not so different from the Balts, at least they are proud of their nazi past and have remembrances, like the Ukros.
                Get over it and live with it

          • beejboytyson@lemmy.world
            15·
            18 hours ago

            So you just stated that Russia was imperialistic. That in itself should give you more context about the kind of nation Russia was. Communism is a way of thought not anyone nation. Think more critically about what you say.

            • TheTechnician27@lemmy.worldEnglish
              71·
              18 hours ago

              Post says: “communists killed”. Not “communism killed”. The USSR were communists. The Finns were innocent when the USSR invaded them. Communists killed tens of thousands of innocents in that invasion. The entire aim of this post is to disingenuously suggest that anytime someone brings up the innocent victims of the USSR, they’re actually defending the Nazis killed in WWII.

              • beejboytyson@lemmy.world
                34·
                14 hours ago

                Cuba has the most educated population per land mass.

                They have free health care and post secondarily.

                A lot of well off countries dabble in communism Switzerland for example has universal income.

                Don’t sit here and pretend like it doesn’t work.

                Learn first.

                • Samskara@sh.itjust.works
                  32·
                  10 hours ago

                  Cuba also has a secret police happy to lock up any opposition. Lots of Cubans want to leave the country.

                  Good education and relatively good health care is the only thing Cuba has going for it.

                  Economic development was whack for decades when they wasted the generous subsidies the Soviet Union provided. Today they keep the economy afloat with cheap oil from Venezuela and remittance sent by the diaspora.

                  To this day Cuba rations food with coupons and most people are poor.

                • CMonster@discuss.onlineEnglish
                  22·
                  11 hours ago

                  I’ve been to Cuba for work. I don’t plan on going back unless it’s for work. Dabbling is not the same as being a fully communist country. No health care is “free”.

                  Learn first.

  • daepicgamerbro69@lemmy.world
    9014·
    2 days ago

    Such a profoundly dense thing to post, it could have only been made up by an American. How can anyone have such compartmentilized view of history is truly beyond me, unless of course they are incredibly ignorant or some kind of Putin’s lapdog, like Medvyedev, actively engaged in the denial of atrocites.

    The grandfather:

    Georgi Markov, Bulgarian screenwriter, poisoned by the secret police.

    Jan Zahradníček, Czech poet and writer bound to a wheelchair. Absolutely of no threat to the regime. Tortured and killed.

    The 22 000 Polish grandfathers and potentional grandfathers killed simply for the crime of not being born Russian:

    Katyn massacre

    Fuck fascists, fucking kill them. That includes the officials of whatever totalitarian communist regime you think is “a vibe”

    • daepicgamerbro69@lemmy.world
      527·
      2 days ago

      never mind. latter is the case. This poster is a Putin fanboy and Uyghur genocide denier. All his posts read like the typical former /pol/ kid turned tankie.

      no doubt i will also get banned for saying this, since they’re also moderator here.

      go ahead товарищ комиϟϟар, play out your little fash fantasy.

      • GodlessCommie@lemmy.worldOPMEnglish
        1337·
        2 days ago

        Got to keep pulling out little snippets without following the entire fucking thread.

        It’s remarkable people will regurgitate the uyghur bullshit propaganda with zero credible evidence but will ignore that ukrainians are primarily Nazi with tons of evidence

        It’s amazing how shitlibs always assume the critique of US empire automatically is an endorsement of Putin. BlueMAGA is full of the same delusions as MAGA

    • Justas🇱🇹@sh.itjust.works
      334·
      2 days ago

      The Soviets near completely eradicated the Baltic intelligentsia by killings and exiles into Siberia. Claiming that all those people had it coming for them is certainly a wild take. Most were exiled for simply being slightly richer than their neighbours.

      My wife’s grandparents were exiled somewhere near Murmansk, but were returned quite early because grandfather was a millman and Lithuanian SSR was short on those.

      Lithuanians in Siberia

      Close to me there is a place where on one side of the road, Nazis murdered the Jews and on another side, communists murdered Lithuanian intellectuals. The Nazi side had ruthless efficiency. The Soviet side had inhuman brutality.

      Rainiai massacre

    • mriswith@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2013·
      2 days ago

      Such a profoundly dense thing to post, it could have only been made up by an American. How can anyone have such compartmentilized view of history is truly beyond me, unless of course they are incredibly ignorant or some kind of Putin’s lapdog,

      It’s mostly narcissism with some ignorance.

      I used to hang out in alternative communities. And if you listen to people who promote full communism as a good way to run a society, you realize that their entire proposition hinges on there being no “evil” people. Their mind seems to operate on the idea that their society will be so perfect that there wont be any corrupt people who lie, steal, cheat and try to take advantage of others or if they are they will instantly and always be caught.

      Same thing with anarchists. They love to talk all flowery and nice about their mostly anarchist commune with 10 people. And just dismiss the idea that it wouldn’t work with 10 million.

        • mriswith@lemmy.worldEnglish
          21·
          21 hours ago

          Some sort of hybrid system. On a large scale it’s almost impossible to go full communism, capitalism, etc. without the minor flaws compounding and causing issues.

  • acargitz
    35·
    2 days ago

    Two things are true at once:

    • They did crimes
    • They fought even bigger criminals

    And two things are true at once:

    • Descendants of their innocent victims consider them monsters, and they are correct and valid.
    • Descendants of the even bigger criminals that got “neutralized” hide among the other category, and they are dishonest.
      • acargitz
        9·
        19 hours ago

        No, this is the for the Communism-fascism discourse.

        When it comes to Communism-capitalism, my take is that while we are able, correct and valid to pinpoint the crimes of (big-C) Communists, we are steeped in (small-c) capitalist ideology and are completely desensitized to the ongoing systemic crimes of our own system, which are in my opinion graver than anything the (big-C) Communists ever did.

        • GrammarPolice@lemmy.world
          3·
          18 hours ago

          Fair point. I definitely feel like the shortcomings of capitalism will become more evident if/when we eventually switch to a different politico-economic model. For now, the propaganda is still prevalent.

  • Godric@lemmy.world
    91·
    2 days ago

    Did Trotsky have grandchildren? Or did the Communists exterminate his entire family line?

    • GodlessCommie@lemmy.worldOPMEnglish
      618·
      2 days ago

      Talking as if the US didn’t keep them in harms way. This is a nation that mastered the art of eugenics

      • Bloomcole@lemm.ee
        43·
        19 hours ago

        And worked hard to save and evacuate nazis.
        Among them Mengele who Hitler sent to the US (Carnegie’s American Eugenics Society) to learn about the superior Nordic race.
        US army only joined in in Europe after they knew the Soviets would win and would get all of it if they didn’t get a piece in the west.

  • But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world
    2619·
    2 days ago

    I mean you can say that. At the same time I grew up in a communist country where your neighbours were disappeared for whatever reason that authorities saw fit. I saw the oligarchs keep their power under a different name and regular folk stay poor, and get even poorer than before. You American kids love the idea of communism but it don’t work in practice, it requires humans to be selfless, it requires leaders who will reach the top and give up power and money, and spread it to the people below. I don’t think that’s possible with humans, too selfish. Socialism under direct rules and regulations, great. But strong man communism isn’t different than fascism or capitalism to the people at the bottom

    • Tournesol@feddit.frEnglish
      1413·
      2 days ago

      reading that article, I mostly read that’s it’s debated and that what the famine were weaponized. Also, commentary on communism being the cause of them is largely dependent on the critic eye

      • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
        185·
        2 days ago

        Uh… Who the hell cares about any of that? Whether the Soviets shirked their responsibility to keep their (forcibly incorporated, mind you) subjects fed due to malice or malice-fueled incompetence matters about as much as whether the IDF is mass-murdering Gazans because they want to mass murder Gazans or because they’re bombing any target their shitty AI gives them.

        • Tournesol@feddit.frEnglish
          99·
          2 days ago

          yeah so… we’re talking about weather to put all the blame on communism in general. Communism is an ideology, not a government ?

      • endeavor@sopuli.xyzEnglish
        1011·
        2 days ago

        Its debated by russian historical revisionism Most communist crimed have not seen wide coverage in english. This is why it’s not okay to fly swastika but cool to fly hammer and cycle.

        • JimmyMcGill@lemmy.world
          18·
          2 days ago

          You can fly the hammer and sickle the same way you can fly the US flag, or the Chinese, or UK, or Turkish flags.

          The difference being having a flag under which atrocities were done, vs having a flag that represents the reason behind those atrocities.

              • TheTechnician27@lemmy.worldEnglish
                23·
                2 days ago

                Yes. Who’s going to tell you that the black swastika in a white circle in a red rectangle was the official flag of Nazi Germany’s government? This is the flag “under which atrocities were done”, i.e. under which the Holocaust happened and under which Germany plunged the world into WWII. If your argument is that this isn’t “a flag under which atrocities were done” but rather “a flag that represents the reason behind those atrocities”, then why doesn’t the hammer and sickle represent the reason behind the Holodomor? Behind all the other extreme atrocities committed by the USSR? Otherwise, if your argument is that it is a flag under which atrocities were done like the hammer and sickle, and you’re saying the hammer and sickle are fine to fly, then what’s the difference with flying the flag of Nazi Germany? I don’t think either of these despicable flags should be flown, to be clear, but I’m asking why you take exception here based on your own argument (or, if you don’t take exception, what the hell is wrong with you).

                Basically what I’m saying is that your rationale of “having a flag under which atrocities were done, vs having a flag that represents the reason behind those atrocities” makes zero sense and is comparing functionally the same thing.

                • JimmyMcGill@lemmy.world
                  31·
                  1 day ago

                  it’s perfectly clear in my first comment.

                  Atrocities were committed under the US flag. Do you think it shouldn’t be flown? The same way for the UK, China, Netherlands etc should all those flags be forbidden?

                  The reasoning is clear. Those flags represent much more than just those atrocities. The nazi flag doesn’t. The same way the Confederation flag also doesn’t.

                  The hammer and sickle is flown in plenty of places not in defense of atrocities like holodomor but for many other reasons. And you will find that the people flying that symbol will generally agree and not defend Holodomor.

                  Also because communism is an ideology and not a movement of one country only.

                  Where I’m from the hammer and sickle is a symbol of liberation and workers rights for example.

          • TheTechnician27@lemmy.worldEnglish
            11·
            2 days ago

            Reminds me of the “real capitalism has never been tried” that right-wing libertarians retreat to when you point out the massive flaws which occur under capitalism – namely that those ills are the product of bastardizing capitalism with government regulation (“crony capitalism”). Where of course they get to dictate exactly what “real capitalism” is against the consensus of historians and economists– usually pure laissez-faire capitalism.

            • rockerface 🇺🇦@lemm.ee
              31·
              2 days ago

              That is a pretty wild generalisation to make. From me claiming one person that pretended to be a communist wasn’t to somehow me being a… Soviet fanboy or something? Stalin and Mao both committed atrocities, pretending to be something they aren’t. China keeps doing it to this day, as does DPRK. Lenin wasn’t a saint folks over at .ml pretend he was either. People get corrupted by power, it happens depressingly often under any political ideology.

  • Tautvydaxx@lemm.ee
    126·
    2 days ago

    Thats how its starts, first you tell them there are nazis and you want to liberate them from the nazis. Than you invade theyr countrie. Read about siberian gulags and how many “nazi grandperants” were sent there before boot licking these commies.

  • slashasdf@feddit.nl
    813·
    1 day ago

    Fuck all fascists and fuck all communists.
    When your ideology justifies genocide it means your ideology is pure evil.

    • GodlessCommie@lemmy.worldOPMEnglish
      910·
      1 day ago

      You advocating for Democrats makes you a supporter of that fascism. 50 years of liberal ‘lesser evil’ was actually incremental fascism

      • slashasdf@feddit.nl
        31·
        10 hours ago

        I am not an American, I am not advocating for your Democractic Party at all. Both of your parties are supporting the genocide in Gaza.

        And there are no alternative parties that have a chance to govern, your country is fucking broken.

    • deaf_fish@lemm.ee
      66·
      1 day ago

      Checks notes on Communism…

      Doesn’t say anything about genocide here chief.

        • deaf_fish@lemm.ee
          62·
          1 day ago

          Those are leaders that did genocide, not a property of communism. You don’t need to do genocide to have a communistic system. Communism was the first economic strategy humans did. It worked just fine without genocide.

          Also this is a category error. It’s like if someone claimed that capitalism is genocidal. No, it’s not. Capitalism like communism is a method to distribute goods and services. Neither have anything to say about genocide.

            • deaf_fish@lemm.ee
              31·
              1 day ago

              I am not advocating for communism right now. I don’t even know how we would make that work given the size and scale of things. I think fascism is a more pressing problem right now anyway. But I think in the future if it seems like we can make something work that looks a bit like communism and it is better than capitalism and we can remain a democratic society, we should be open to it.