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- cross-posted to:
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The territorial violation by China is the latest in a series of events amplifying tensions between Beijing and Japan.
A Chinese military surveillance plane breached Japanese airspace off the country’s southwestern coast on Monday, marking what Japan’s defense ministry described as the first known incursion by China’s military into its territorial airspace.
According to a ministry official, a Chinese reconnaissance aircraft briefly entered Japanese territory near Nagasaki Prefecture around 11:30 a.m. on Monday. In response, Japan’s Self-Defense Force put fighter jets on high alert and issued a warning to the Chinese aircraft.
While Chinese planes frequently appear in international airspace around Japan, this incident represents the first confirmed entry of a military aircraft into Japan’s territorial airspace.
My reckless, irresponsible “solution” would be to just shoot ’em the fuck down. It’s a good thing I’m not in charge of Japanese border security. I’d probably start World War 3.
Meh, Turkey shot down a Russian jet and nothing happened a handful of years back. Can you really be that mad when a fighter breaching protected airspace is shot down?
It’s not about “mad”, it’s about pushing boundaries. If they decide they want to…
China is going to keep pushing boundaries until they get punched in the mouth.
They need a bigger plane that can just drop a net on the other plane and tow it in to Japan and give the pilot a stern talking to, and then they take the plane apart and send it back in a box. Dismantling the pilot optional.
Im thinking the plane kidnapping jet scene in the last Dark Knight film.
Yes, you can.
Russia and Turkey have very different political dynamics than China and Japan.
Also, these types of airspace incursions, followed by intercepts, are pretty standard amongst major powers.
It doesn’t mean they’re benign, but that shooting down Chinese planes intentionally as a response, is something you do if you’re willing and ready for the escalation path to result in open conflict, not simply an escalation.
Whereas these airspace incursions are just… something you do?
They have been a staple of great power competition since the Cold War, as a means of political signaling, military posturing, and gathering of intelligence.
I mean, sure. When you have the world by the balls because you produce nearly 100% of all the worlds goods, what are you going to do? Say no?
China’s manufacturing capability is economically important in the short term but should hardly be looked at as a stranglehold on the entire world. Different countries have previously held the crown for “manufacturer of the world’s cheap rubbish” and India and Vietnam are currently vying for their turn to wear it. China will lose their supremacy before they’re able to do anything f politically strategic with it on the global scale.
It’s Russia, they are getting invaded, and they started the invasion lmao, not sure if Chinese military is as bad
I’ve got a better solution for you: wall of chain guns firing a curtain of giant bullets straight up all the time. All approved flights will be directed through the part of the curtain that’ll be reloading in sync with their breach.
Is this the Simpsons approach? “I’m just going to fire my chain guns like this, and if you get shot down it’s your own fault!”
Unfortunately, bullets fired straight up need to… come down. And the wind means it won’t always land in the same spot.
I still remember some idiot fired a pistol or something straight up at a local fireworks show a few years ago. A little boy died. It was really sad. I don’t think they ever found the guy who did it, either.
… I just googled it. That was ten years ago. Dang…
I was going to ask how a pebble can kill with just terminal velocity, but it IS a rather pointy, metal and aerodynamic pebble.
That ought to be fun with all the border disputes. Some islands are claimed by 4 (well, 5) nations:
russia has claims as well
Yeah, in the north there are still disputes as well.
I mean sometimes they didn’t even mean to be in your airspace, the instruments on the craft just went goofy and now they’re lost. It wouldn’t be cool to shoot someone down just because they don’t know where they are.
(Not saying this is what happened, just that it can happen)
How does GPS just “go goofy?”
"In a half mile, turn right…
At the MC Escher painting, take the next upside down left down the stairs."
GPS jamming and spoofing is like, a whole thing and isn’t even new tech at this point. Military grade nav doesn’t rely on GPS.
Your GPS doesn’t do the Cha Cha Slide?
Ive seen a gps go nuts for no reason and decide that I am infact on the otherside of the county, and I live in a rather big county largest in the US actually.
Reconnaissance aircraft are notoriously difficult to hit, due to their high altitude and high speed.
Firing a bunch of ordinance into the sky would just mean raining it back down on your own population.
The Y9 in question here though is slow, fat, and low - max speed of 360kn and a service ceiling of 10,000m. It’s a cargo plane with EW stuff on it.
Then it seems like there’s a leap of logic between “cargo plane” and “reconnaissance aircraft”. Very possible it was just an inexperienced/behind schedule pilot cutting corners on the route.
Seems like a dick move to kill an entire plane full of people because someone decided to short-cut through your airspace.
In a vacuum, maybe. In the context of how China has been acting towards nearly all of their neighbors recently, not likely. This reeks of wolf warrior diplomacy.
The Western reporting coverage of Chinese military operations is slanted to paint China as an aggressor, in the same way Western reporting of Iraq in the early 2000s was slanted to paint Iraqis as terrorists.
You don’t read about American military aircraft invading Japanese airspace because Japan is occupied territory. You don’t read about Taiwanese aircraft invading Chinese airspace, because there’s no defined territorial line between them on account of Taiwan being contested territory.
China sending a single Rambo-esque supersoldier in to liberate native peoples from an evil mercenary army?
China is literally aggressive in both active and passive ways, maybe some news outlets are exaggerating a little for clicks, but it’s not by much
Japan isn’t “occupied territory” they are a US ally who allows us to have a base there for rapid response and protection.
Lol, nah, Taiwan is a country the only one contesting it is China in the same way that Russia is “contesting” that Ukraine is their territory.
It’s called strategic boundary pushing China has been known to do such things with their other neighbors
You reek of a China apologist
Are we doing the “Chinese Weather Balloon” hysteria again?
Starting in which year?
Where does Taiwanese airspace end and Chinese airspace begin? Would it surprise you to discover that Taiwan claims airspace over the south end of China?
I know folks on here love making the “East Taiwan” joke, but are you seriously going to argue that Xiamen and Fuzhou are also part of Taiwan?
If the US sent a bunch of weather balloons into Chinese airspace without any warning and they approached government and military sites, would you say the same thing?
Without explicit permission from the government it is a breach of sovereignty. The US had the right to annihilate all of those balloons the instant they passed into US airspace – just like China has the right to destroy the hypothetical US balloons as soon as they pass into Chinese airspace.
For how often China beats the drum about sovereignty, they should know this.
Why does this picture place a US military base in Hong Kong?
Edit: also, identification zone =/= claimed airspace
Ah yea, when people are concerned when a near-hostile country sends over unknown aircraft unannounced it’s just “hysteria”. Not like those weather balloons are perfectly capable of carrying bombs or biowarfare contagions or anything…
April 28, 1952 when the San Francisco Peace Treaty that was signed on September 8, 1951 went into effect.
Here’s a wikipedia article all about US-Japan relations since you appear to have flunked highschool history
Least delusional tankie
China’s actions paint them as an aggressor.
You’re right that you don’t read about the US military invading Japanese territory as they are invited by the Japanese government. Countries are free to repeal that invitation just like Niger.
And no, I’m not referencing a movie.
Dude what? China’s near-daily incursions over Taiwan have escalated and escalated to an objectively ridiculous level. Nobody “painting” shit.
This is what we’re defining as an “incursion over Taiwan”.
Not a mistake anyone would make accidentally. They wouldn’t be allowed to fly near hostile territory without being well informed of the risks and consequences. This was a planned and deliberate action, or Chinas airforce is incompetent and can’t be trusted.
Both are dangerous and shouldn’t be tolerated in your territory.
It’s a routine mistake that happens regularly, particularly when there is a large amount of traffic and a crop of younger personal.
We’ve flipped from “China is being too hostile” to “The US isn’t being hostile enough”.
But it turns out they’re two sides of the same coin. Americans simply can’t get enough war.
What part of this story involves the US lol
Don’t you know that all the bad that’s happening in the world, and I mean all of it, not some of it, not a lot of it, but ALL of it is the sole responsibility of the Great Satan?
And that all bad things are either done by the US, done by a US ally - forced to by the US as all US allies are occupied territories and have no agency - or exists solely in US propaganda, as countries free of US influence can never do bad?
Lol no, shitty private student pilots with tens of hours of experience don’t break airspace, and I’m not talking about airspace boundaries between states, but about random ones within countries that you can request and get in a week and like 100 EUR.
Every single flight starts with a briefing on what airspaces you need to avoid, and what measures you will take to avoid them. At least if Chinese jet pilots have half the discipline of a Romanian crop duster.
Possible, but these are also the type of aircraft you would expect to see in mass during any naval conflict or blockading action against China. I believe the PLAAF/PLAN are working on their version of Rapid Dragon.
Relatively slow, but plentiful, cargo planes, would be a pretty obvious choice for launching a saturation attack against USN or Japanese forces operating outside the range of their land based missiles. Again, assuming they develop a similar system to Rapid Dragon.
I mean, maybe in the 80’s? The technological advancements of SAM have basically made speed and altitude mean next to nothing. Now most things depend on being hard to pick up on radar, or like the plane in the article, are just large planes filled with electronic warfare equipment.
This would have been over the Pacific…
Show me the American-made hypersonic air defense missile.
Hypersonic AD is the dumbest thing ever. The most important things in AD are maneuverability and accuracy, and going supersonic tremendously impedes both, unless “missing the incoming weapon as quickly as possible” is your main objective.
It’s called patriot. It’s shot down multiple Russian Kinzhals in Ukraine.
Sure it has.
Doubt all you want, but you don’t have to meet a hypersonic missile where it is, only where it will be. They aren’t very maneuverable at their maximum velocities which means it’s possible to shoot them down with a slower intercept missile provided the battery is in a favorable location to make an intercept in time.
Just fire the bullet to hit the other bullet, sure. Very easy and we do it successfully all the time.
Theoretically.
This kind of pro-Russian cope was much more justifiable 2 and a half years ago. Now that reality has unveiled the decrepit, incompetent reality that lies beneath the propaganda, it’s just sad. I hope this cheerleading is just a halfhearted effort on your part (or that you’re doing it for a few rubles per post), otherwise this is pathetic.
Tell me you don’t know what you’re talking about without telling me.
You don’t need to hit the bullet with a bullet. You just hit it with a shotgun blast or grenade, either destroying it outright or blowing it off course enough that it loses its energy and becomes ineffective. We literally do this all the time on tanks and humvees. It’s called a hardkill APS. The Russians had one working in the 70s. Modern ones are capable of detecting incoming tank rounds moving between 700-1700m/s, identifying which will hit the vehicle, and blowing them out of the air once they reach 10-15 meters away. All in a span of nanoseconds. It’s standard equipment on Israel’s MBT, and Germany, the US, and the UK have all field tested various systems and are considering making hardkill systems standard for the next generation of tanks and IFVs. Multiple companies across multiple countries make them for upgrade kits. Germany already produces vehicles with standard hardkill APS for their export market.
This isn’t crazy sci-fi technology. It’s just rocket science.
You can watch this happen all the time in practice with slower missiles with the iron dome. The math is the same.
I mean there’s material evidence out there that pretty well proves it, and Russia has ceased to claim that they’re fake reports.
If the kinzhal missiles were actually “hypersonic missiles” that could maneuver at speed, then yeah they’d be hard to intercept. However, the kinzhal are actually just missiles with a ramjet, meaning they hold a fairly normal flight trajectory and can be targeted by systems like the patriot.
Shooting a bullet with another bullet is basically what all anti air systems do, the only thing that changes is the scaling in the math.
If I had a dollar for every time some hack talk radio announcer claimed “They’re not even denying it anymore, folks!”
The Iron Dome is regularly penetrated by bottle rockets and radio shack drones. This was supposed to be the top of the line in anti-air defense. But sure, Boeing is sitting on something that’s way better.
Lol, k. Then please offer any evidence that the evidence and reporting are fake?
It’s almost like air defense weapons all have a margin for error… Kinda like how we’ve regularly seen s300 and s400 systems get taken out by himars, a weapon platform from the 80’s.
Lol, not sure who you’re arguing with. I haven’t mentioned the iron dome or Boeing… Do you exclusively argue via a strawman ?
Lol, what does that have to do with reconnaissance airplanes?
My whole argument is that planes can no longer out run/maneuver surface to air missiles. What does that have to do with hypersonic missiles?
Patriot system. Already proven to fuck up hypersonic shit
This isn’t reconnaissance, it’s standard airspace incursion and intercept.
Everyone here seems to be a really hawkish as of late, or possibly just having a very poor understanding of international relations.
With exceptions for the United State’s top shelf stealth planes the Japanese are quite capable of shooting down anything flying in earths atmosphere. In the event that Japanese can’t do it the United States Aircraft Carrier Group assigned to Japan absolutely can.
Sure. Just put in a call to the Americans to do it for them.
Still not clear why anyone is shooting down Chinese cargo planes.
Japan has its own domestically developed Surface to Air missile system.
The Y-9 has several variants, some of which are ELINT and AWACS. I’d trust the Japanese to know which are which, they see them often enough on their radar screens.
That said, it would be monumentally stupid to expose an AWACS plane like that. Those things don’t grow on trees, even in China.