VICTORIA – A British Columbia Supreme Court judge has ruled that a Vancouver Island People’s Party of Canada candidate who ran against Elizabeth May in the last federal election must stop...
In Canada that term is a legal title, like Doctor. If Americans started using that term willy-nilly, I don’t think we should have to adjust our legislation.
Yea this is a murky area, there are things that are clearly acts of engineering namely civil engineering projects bridges, factories, etc., that fit very well with the way the title of engineer is sanctioned province by province.
It gets murky for me with transportation things, here I still believe they should be scanctioned engineers but I don’t feel the provinces are the best ones to mandate who should be a licensed engineer for something that travels at 700 kph across the country, I think that’s more a national level interest.
Messing things further is in other countries there isn’t a special meaning to the word engineer and it’s missused in our sense of context. The title is tossed around in some places for things like sanitation engineer and software engineer, where what these folks are doing is clearly not acts of engineering but the title is given In lieu of increased pay.
Electrical engineering is smack dab in the grey area if it was work on a big power plant sure traditional act of engineering. Designing firmware for a mass produced widget may not be. But if the job is being advertised in the US they’d both be looking for an electrical engineer.
And a lazy hr person here may be looking for an EE in Canada skipping over candidates that don’t have the certificate from the provincial engineering body but can do the job as good or if not better.
Again this confusion is avoided if everyone knows Engineer is a very loaded word and need a to be handled with care in the confines of Canada, but we as Canadians need to understand others don’t give the same care to this word.
The PPC guy is probably playing this up to get him free publicity at this point as he should be painfully aware of this from his undergraduate courses beating it into I his skull.
That said it’s not a bad idea to examine the details to see if updates can be made to definitions in the provincial acts so engineers can better serve the public and we can avoid policing the use unnecessarily. I also think we should have a federal level dealing with acts of engineering that normally cross provincial boarders
Argh way to long winded owell enjoy the wall of text
It seems like engineering is a loaded term, but how do you get the general public to understand what is and isn’t covered under the “engineer” title if you start making exceptions? The purpose of protecting the title, much like any other protected title, is to provide the public with a high degree to faith and trust in those who hold the title, much like registered nurse is a protected title.
Beyond that, this article is specifically dealing with a Canadian event, not related to the rest of the world, unless I missed something? The PPC candidate discusses why he thinks it shouldn’t be protected in relation to the rest of the world, but his arguments are BS. It’s easy to say, in an email “we don’t have any engineers on staff as engineer is a protected title in Canada and requires specific schooling and experience unrelated to our work. We have X number of designers/coders who fulfill the role you are most likely referring to.” If the companies in China or USA don’t understand that, you’ve got other problems. They’re pretty clearly looking to confirm you have adequate staffing hours allocated to their project.
Disclaimer, I am a P.Eng, and the reason for the “protected” status is drilled into us through school.
I’m sure if you looked into the etymology of ‘sanitation engineer,’ it might have seen its creation in parody of the US practice of euphemistically calling their programmers lofty titles like ‘software engineer.’ The idea is that you don’t need to call yourself by your actual title if you’re ashamed of it, you just need to call yourself a “(name of industry) engineer” and that becomes a catch-all for all position names in the industry even when it’s not helpful to anyone trying to communicate the actual requirements. A Marine Engineer and a Hull Technician are two very different jobs, and a lot can get wet if I’m looking for the latter but they’ve hung their shingle out as the former.
It’s becoming the same with designers. Actual designers get a pretty pissy when the rich housewife suddenly starts calling herself an “interior designer” because she took an online course from Home and Garden magazine. Interior decorator, please.
I’m not sure specifically how it works for engineers but it’s a somewhat similar process for biologists in BC where the title of professional biologist is protected and the requirements and mandates of being one isn’t decided by the province but by an association of biologists which is run by member biologists.
If it’s not a similar process for engineers it probably should be.
Actually, the US has screwed up titles just a little bit more as well, but in reverse! While “Esquire” is a courtesy title in the UK, and can be used the same way in Canada, there are specific individuals that might use Esquire in Commonwealth countries in place of Mister based on position or status. In the USA, lawyers have started using “Esquire” meaning ‘passed the bar in their state.’
It’s province specific. Professional Engineer is across the board, but provinces like NS don’t protect a simple engineer title. There’s a lot of grey area around software engineering in places like AB, since APEGA doesn’t license software engineers, yet it’s a globally recognized title.
If only there was a professional kind of designation that would separate the engineers by profession from just engineers by function.
They should call it a professional engineer. And have a ring or something to show they’re special. They need to show they’ve done the actual engineering work and the thesis to boot.
They do, you say?
So they DO distinguish already between Professional Engineers and engineers. So it’s just a matter of him not paying dues? Like a cheesy license fee?
Fuck these leeches.
I wonder what the guy who drives a train engine is going to be called, now.
You get PEng after serving your post grad time as an Engineer in Training under a an established PEng. So same Engineering background, just a level up title distinction. Somebody claiming they are either of these that didn’t get that diploma is lying. But in the USA garbage collection dudes are Sanitary Engineers, it waters down the term.
I have mostly worked in technical sales. Whenever one of my colleagues calls me an engineer in front of a customer I clarify that I have an engineering background but I’m not a PEng. It has serious implications for liability, but the distinction is not well understood in society.
So it’s just a matter of him not paying dues?
No it’s a matter of proving competence through documented, supervised work experience, and THEN paying dues.
deleted by creator
In Canada that term is a legal title, like Doctor. If Americans started using that term willy-nilly, I don’t think we should have to adjust our legislation.
Yea this is a murky area, there are things that are clearly acts of engineering namely civil engineering projects bridges, factories, etc., that fit very well with the way the title of engineer is sanctioned province by province.
It gets murky for me with transportation things, here I still believe they should be scanctioned engineers but I don’t feel the provinces are the best ones to mandate who should be a licensed engineer for something that travels at 700 kph across the country, I think that’s more a national level interest.
Messing things further is in other countries there isn’t a special meaning to the word engineer and it’s missused in our sense of context. The title is tossed around in some places for things like sanitation engineer and software engineer, where what these folks are doing is clearly not acts of engineering but the title is given In lieu of increased pay.
Electrical engineering is smack dab in the grey area if it was work on a big power plant sure traditional act of engineering. Designing firmware for a mass produced widget may not be. But if the job is being advertised in the US they’d both be looking for an electrical engineer. And a lazy hr person here may be looking for an EE in Canada skipping over candidates that don’t have the certificate from the provincial engineering body but can do the job as good or if not better.
Again this confusion is avoided if everyone knows Engineer is a very loaded word and need a to be handled with care in the confines of Canada, but we as Canadians need to understand others don’t give the same care to this word.
The PPC guy is probably playing this up to get him free publicity at this point as he should be painfully aware of this from his undergraduate courses beating it into I his skull.
That said it’s not a bad idea to examine the details to see if updates can be made to definitions in the provincial acts so engineers can better serve the public and we can avoid policing the use unnecessarily. I also think we should have a federal level dealing with acts of engineering that normally cross provincial boarders
Argh way to long winded owell enjoy the wall of text
It seems like engineering is a loaded term, but how do you get the general public to understand what is and isn’t covered under the “engineer” title if you start making exceptions? The purpose of protecting the title, much like any other protected title, is to provide the public with a high degree to faith and trust in those who hold the title, much like registered nurse is a protected title.
Beyond that, this article is specifically dealing with a Canadian event, not related to the rest of the world, unless I missed something? The PPC candidate discusses why he thinks it shouldn’t be protected in relation to the rest of the world, but his arguments are BS. It’s easy to say, in an email “we don’t have any engineers on staff as engineer is a protected title in Canada and requires specific schooling and experience unrelated to our work. We have X number of designers/coders who fulfill the role you are most likely referring to.” If the companies in China or USA don’t understand that, you’ve got other problems. They’re pretty clearly looking to confirm you have adequate staffing hours allocated to their project.
Disclaimer, I am a P.Eng, and the reason for the “protected” status is drilled into us through school.
Sanitation engineer is just to fancy up the title. Technician is a much better euphemism.
I’m sure if you looked into the etymology of ‘sanitation engineer,’ it might have seen its creation in parody of the US practice of euphemistically calling their programmers lofty titles like ‘software engineer.’ The idea is that you don’t need to call yourself by your actual title if you’re ashamed of it, you just need to call yourself a “(name of industry) engineer” and that becomes a catch-all for all position names in the industry even when it’s not helpful to anyone trying to communicate the actual requirements. A Marine Engineer and a Hull Technician are two very different jobs, and a lot can get wet if I’m looking for the latter but they’ve hung their shingle out as the former.
It’s becoming the same with designers. Actual designers get a pretty pissy when the rich housewife suddenly starts calling herself an “interior designer” because she took an online course from Home and Garden magazine. Interior decorator, please.
I’m not sure specifically how it works for engineers but it’s a somewhat similar process for biologists in BC where the title of professional biologist is protected and the requirements and mandates of being one isn’t decided by the province but by an association of biologists which is run by member biologists.
If it’s not a similar process for engineers it probably should be.
Actually, the US has screwed up titles just a little bit more as well, but in reverse! While “Esquire” is a courtesy title in the UK, and can be used the same way in Canada, there are specific individuals that might use Esquire in Commonwealth countries in place of Mister based on position or status. In the USA, lawyers have started using “Esquire” meaning ‘passed the bar in their state.’
It’s province specific. Professional Engineer is across the board, but provinces like NS don’t protect a simple engineer title. There’s a lot of grey area around software engineering in places like AB, since APEGA doesn’t license software engineers, yet it’s a globally recognized title.
deleted by creator
You’re right that the term is used widely, but as the judge noted, it shouldn’t be, since it has a legal meaning.
If only there was a professional kind of designation that would separate the engineers by profession from just engineers by function.
They should call it a professional engineer. And have a ring or something to show they’re special. They need to show they’ve done the actual engineering work and the thesis to boot.
They do, you say?
So they DO distinguish already between Professional Engineers and engineers. So it’s just a matter of him not paying dues? Like a cheesy license fee?
Fuck these leeches.
I wonder what the guy who drives a train engine is going to be called, now.
You get PEng after serving your post grad time as an Engineer in Training under a an established PEng. So same Engineering background, just a level up title distinction. Somebody claiming they are either of these that didn’t get that diploma is lying. But in the USA garbage collection dudes are Sanitary Engineers, it waters down the term.
I earned and wear a ring, but am not a PEng.
I have mostly worked in technical sales. Whenever one of my colleagues calls me an engineer in front of a customer I clarify that I have an engineering background but I’m not a PEng. It has serious implications for liability, but the distinction is not well understood in society.
No it’s a matter of proving competence through documented, supervised work experience, and THEN paying dues.