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- cross-posted to:
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/32871596
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Just to dump more gasoline…
… Mary didn’t- and couldn’t- give meaningful consent.
Gabriel told her how it was, and she was like ‘okay’… but between the power imbalance and the consequences of not bringing the savior of the entire freaking world into the world… it’s basically a gun to the head of all humanity.
You forgot the one little fact that said virgin was 13 at the time of impregnation.
~PS. Epstein didn’t kill himself.~
It gets better.
The Greek word that’s eventually translated to English “virgin” means unwed. (I have no source at hand to support that.)
Let’s employ Occam’s razor.
Mary (lit. Beloved) is just some dirt poor farmers daughter who got knocked up and ran away to the next village with her boy friend. Gave birth in a barn.
Then 25 years later this dude shows up again, a carpenter by trade, and is a total hippie.
Then all his mates write down his adventures in letters to each other.
The plot of The Hobbit?
Bilbo never married!
I hear this Jesus guy is a pretty big deal with the Republicans. He’s probably on that list they won’t release.
Apparently, he is too woke for them now, but still go worship a woke god every week.
he is too woke for them now
Always has been. Jesus is basically the superhero tier of communist hippie. And he’s brown. Republicans fucking hate him.
We didn’t have rules back then
Mary wasn’t the virgin, her mother was. She had to be pure that way to carry jebus. It’s so nonsensical even the followers of the religion get their own shit wrong.
What? Mary was allegedly a virgin when she became pregnant with Jesus, but that’s not what immaculate conception is about.
I thought immaculate conception was the idea that Christians had about heritable sin from Adam and Eve, and that when Mary was conceived the sin associated with humanity in general skipped her somehow. Virgin birth, something separate, was Mary making Jesus via parthogenesis and Bible magic. Someone correct me if I’m wrong I grew up in a cult so I got half of this off the internet.
It varies by denomination.
Explaining crazy with crazier is pretty crazy. Just saying.
Right, but the mythology is pretty clear about her being a virgin.
Mary cheats on her husband, gets pregnant, convinces the dumbass that it was some magic ghost that gave them a magic baby, and accidentally created a religion.
…woulda prevented a lot of problems had she just owned up to it >_<
I’ve read somewhere (don’t remember where sorry about that) Mary wasn’t a virgin, and Joseph was definitely Jesus’ father until some much later time when some pope decided that sex with women was gross and tweaked the story.
it was always part of Mathew.
The fun fact is that Mathew insists this is to fulfill a prophecy in Isaiah. (Mat 1:32, referencing Isaiah 7:14)
Mathew's verses
18 Now the birth of Jesus the Messiah took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been engaged to Joseph, but before they lived together, she was found to be pregnant from the Holy Spirit. 19 Her husband Joseph, being a righteous man and unwilling to expose her to public disgrace, planned to divorce her quietly. 20 But just when he had resolved to do this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, for the child conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21 She will bear a son, and you are to name him Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” 22 All this took place to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet:
23“Look, the virgin shall become pregnant and give birth to a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel,”
which means, “God is with us.” 24 When Joseph awoke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him; he took her as his wife 25 but had no marital relations with her until she had given birth to a son, and he named him Jesus.
The verses in Isaiah Mathew is citing
10Again the Lord spoke to Ahaz, saying, 11 “Ask a sign of the Lord your God; let it be deep as Sheol or high as heaven.” 12 But Ahaz said, “I will not ask, and I will not put the Lord to the test.” 13 Then Isaiah[d] said, “Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary mortals that you weary my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son and shall name him Immanuel. 15 He shall eat curds and honey by the time he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16 For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted. 17 The Lord will bring on you and on your people and on your ancestral house such days as have not come since the day that Ephraim departed from Judah—the king of Assyria.”
-Emphasis mine.
The Isaiah prophecy is being given to Ahaz as a sign that his enemies will get rekt. The child being mentioned, here, is nothing more than a time-marker. Basically, what it’s saying is, that somewhere a young woman will give birth and name the kid Immanuel. By the time that kid has reached the age of majority or whatever, then everything else (enemies being rekt.) will have happened.
There’s a few mistakes the author of Mathew is making here. First. The prophecy was given to Ahaz and could not have possibly been about some kid seven centuries later.
Secondly, in the original Hebrew, the word is most certainly “young woman” or “maiden” not “virgin.” so the prophecy isn’t even saying there’ll be a virgin giving birth. Just a woman, and the sole role the kid plays is to identify a period of time. at that time and place, it would have been around fourteen.
The second mistake comes from the author using the Septuagint instead of the original Hebrew texts. for whatever reason the Greeks translated ‘maiden’ to ‘virgin’, and quite incorrectly so. Most modern English translations (particularly for Christians,) make the same mistake because it would be awkward otherwise. Suffice it to say that the author of mathew has exactly zero understanding of the old texts- probably because he was a Hellenic Jew, and spoke/read Greek- not Hebrew or Aramaic.
basically all of the messianic prophecies mathew points to beign fullfilled were either not a prophecy originally, or so severly misunderstood that it’s incomprehensible to imagine the author did anything other than throw spaghettified shit at the wall to see what stuck.
“Virgin birth” was already a concept with other dieties. Christians just absorbed myths.
Probably sooner than that. The “Pope” as we know it is an office that evolved later, though the Catholic church claims the line goes back to the Apostle Peter.
The stories in the gospels are a collection of stories that had been circulating orally among the first century Christians, and got written down mostly in the late second half of that century. Mary likely never claimed a virgin birth at all; that was invented by the oral tradition. Pretty much everything about Jesus childhood is made up to push certain religious narratives.
Which itself is sometimes interesting to follow. The whole census story behind Jesus birth, for instance, is almost certainly made up. Why would Rome require everyone to go back to their birth city to register? That’s hugely disruptive to everyday life if people have to travel days or weeks just to fill out some paperwork. But why did they stick that in there? One good answer is that the particular group who wrote that section of the gospels–it doesn’t appear in all of them–really wanted to connect Jesus to King David and Bethlehem, but everyone knows Jesus is from Nazareth. So they stick this convoluted census story in there to have a reason for Jesus to be born in Bethlehem instead of Nazareth.
Some other person would have done the same thing. This is just the words that survived.
Not just a virgin, a young teen. A child.
Republicans just following gods teachings.
Now let’s have a quick snack I’ve prepared from myself. I’m also made of bread and wine.
Dear Jesus, why you gotta do me like that?
Remember this is still the nice version. The OT is the “we mean business” half. Honestly re-reading some of the OT stories as an adult is fucking wild, and kind of fun if you treat it as mythology. Its still fucked up don’t me wrong. Tho I sometimes think it would be fun to watch an HBO mini series about the OT. Like the story of Samsung is just wild.
You mean Samson? Autocorrect is a bitch.
Yes lol
