Aha, so that’s how we win the ex-pat gammons over to rejoining the EU…
Or keep them out.
I’ve been thinking about this for a while since my country, Portugal, has a very similar problem as Spain in terms of a gigantic housing bubble fed in large part by foreign “investment” money making offers at levels that the locals can’t match (and, worst, a bubble eagerly pumped up by local politicians via things like making Golden Visas available for those who make a €500k “investment” in realestate) thus pulling the prices up far beyond what would naturally happen if the market was purelly local and even causing problems such as a massive brain drain (as young people, not being able to afford a home on local salaries, just leave the country in droves, especially those with Degrees).
As I see it, the solution should be based on Residence rather than Nationality - so the restrictions should be based on people being or not a registered Resident of Portugal (say, for 2 or more years), independently of their Nationality (and hence would also apply to Portuguese nationals not residing in Portugal).
This would not only be entirelly fair for people such as immigrants living in Portugal who are just as much a part of helping the country as the rest, but would also not fall foul of the EU rules that do not allow an EU country to treat citizens of other EU countries differently, because a Residence rule applies to everybody equally (including Portuguese nationals).
It would be a way to block just as much the Well-of middle class pensioner couple from France as the American venture fund from playing the realestate market in Portugal and pulling prices up beyond the reach of the locals because they can much more easilly outbid the locals.
The article speaks about residence. Nationality is not mentioned as a requirement in the article. Inside the EU it is impossible to make such limits to discourage other EU nationals. The EU is one market and freedom of movement, goods, services and capital must not be impeded.
And the pensioner couples are not so much of an issue if they permanently live there and spend money in the local economy.
The “holiday home for four weeks a year” people are an issue as well as speculators buying to keep empty and then sell a decade down the road.
Also the article quotes a realtor with:
He expressed doubt over whether the measure would ever become law, but predicted that the “uncertainty and noise” generated by the proposal would prompt some individual and institutional property investors to turn away from Spain and look elsewhere.
Which is good. Because people who are convinced about buying to live are not effected while investors can fuck off.
Yeah, I didn’t read the article and just went from the headline, which is misleading.
For the rest, your comment is pretty much what I meant or things I agree with.
(My example of the French pensioner couple isn’t about the kind of people who come over and live here, it’s about the ones for whom Portugal/Spain are just investment playgrounds and who will never get hit by the societal side effects of a house price bubble in the countries they’re “investing” in - one could say such people are like poluters who don’t have to live with the consequences of their own polution)
Maybe, just maybe, basic human needs like housing should not be objects of speculative markets.
This new package also comes with a tax exemption for landlords if they set rent prices according to the recommended values of the government. This will make some landlords to reduce the rent to benefit more due to 0 tax, which will benefit tenants.
We’ll see if it’s enough but it’s a good move.
Thats actually a quite good Idea. Doesnt solve the core problem (that big housing companies have a monopoly on housing), but its a quite good idea.
After the 08 bailout, that cat is never going back in the bag.
I propose a highly unconventional solution: get Schrödinger here asap!
So they have still not realized what’s actually driving housing prices up?
Uh…
Na, they know, they just don’t want to admit it.
100% tax? that’s what i would call a ban with extra steps
Well, no, I think the way the math works is that the house would be twice as expensive and the buyer would have to pay half that in tax.
It’s not 100% of the seller’s profit, it’s 100% of the nominal price of the property. So 50% of the total value, presumably, unless the seller is feeling unusually generous.
The EU is a racist construct. Spain have all the right to protect his housing market but why would a german be threated better than a guy from Brazil? Appartheid
What you say makes about as much sense as “Why can a German get help abroad from a Spanish embassy, but they won’t care about a guy from Brazil”. The reason is that the Brazilian is not a EU citizen: For the purposes of the rights of the individual the EU is not a confederation but a federation, acting as if it were a single country.
Also, Mercosur does the same so taking Brazil as an example might not’ve been the wisest choice.
sounds like abunch of apologist for internal colonisation. If the dutchies had entire island full of spaniards they would vote for geerts real quick
Spaniards? Does Papiamento count?
Also the Balears aren’t Dutch but German and also they don’t speak Spanish but Catalan. Begone, Castilian oppressors!
Dutchies ARE germans.
Definitely more than Bavarians, yes.
I call them germanish
Quite the opposite. The eu requires free movement of people and goods and services, so if a German was not allowed to buy, like a French, or Spanish person, that would be against eu rules. The explicitly cannot ban someone form outside their country who is an eu citizen.
Sure, you want to extend it globally, rather than just the eu, but the purpose was to restrict propert to locals. The logical policy if the eu did not exist would be to include the Germans etc you mentioned. The whole purpose of the eu is to increase, not decrease integration, with a view to preventing war by ensuring mutual prosperity.
You understand that eu is specifically against “racism” like that, which is why the eu has it banned. Which is why Spain can’t treat eu citizens differently than Spanish citizens. And that is why they have to do that law like that if they actually want to reduce the amount of foreign owners of houses (and the consequences, reduced housing opportunities for locals, increased houses)
Historically, the eu has been very welcome to new members or countries like Norway, which would want to join it completely. Nothing prevents Brazil of finding a similar agreement with the eu or Spain. I don’t mean joining the eu. I mean a deal that would have similar benefits.
If you believe that the idea of countries is racist and wrong, fair enough, but if you think countries are needed, don’t complain about the consequences of it. I can’t become the president of the united states. I can’t just fight to china and work there.
They should probably only do this if you already have another property in spain already. Problem solved. If youre moving there then you can still buy property.
That’s a pretty large tax. People here in the US have nearby access to other sunny, warm places, but that’d suck for the Brits.
considers
Didn’t Spain have some massive property boom some years back, put way too many resources into construction, then had things pop? What happened to all the construction capacity?
kagis
Yeah.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_property_bubble
The Spanish property bubble is the collapsed overshooting part of a long-term price increase of Spanish real estate prices. This long-term price increase has happened in various stages from 1985 up to 2008.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9] The housing bubble can be clearly divided in three periods: 1985–1991, in which the price nearly tripled; 1992–1996, in which the price remained somewhat stable; and 1996–2008, in which prices grew astonishingly again. The 2008–2014 Spanish real estate crisis caused prices to fall. In 2013, Raj Badiani, an economist at IHS Global Insight in London, estimated that the value of residential real estate has dropped more than 30 percent since 2007 and that house prices would fall at least 50 percent from the peak by 2015.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008–2014_Spanish_real_estate_crisis
The measures adopted so far by the Spanish Government have not been able to tackle the Spanish real estate crisis of 2008. The suppression of the Ministry of Housing was related to this failure and at the beginning of 2010 the Ministry of Development proposed to accompany the sector in its gradual normalization, creating a Working Commission for the promotion of the Real Estate Sector.[42] The government agreed to lower the VAT for new homes in order to help the banks to bring to the market the immense stock of homes owned by developers and builders,[43] but it is not effective.[
Well, I guess their oversupply problem got addressed since then.
but that’d suck for the Brits
Sucks to be them then. What a weird take tbh, we clearly have issues with external countries having too much buying power compared to us and your take is that the tax will such for the Brits? Have you considered that maybe that’s the point of the tax?
They can rent apartments for vacations tough, apparently that won’t have this big tax.
Are you a bot?
If only Britain could be part of the EU
Too soon ;_;
Yeah I think not.
You’ll be welcomed as refugees tho.
Same thing happened in the u.s, there was a housing boom up until 2008 and then it crashed and housing production hasn’t been the same since.
This is the problem with housing as a speculative asset, the boom and bust cycles do a horrible job of matching demand and then prices increase because it takes too long to ramp up production and change laws to make more arrangements available .
