Putin used his speech not only to announce recognition of the separatist republics but to make a broader argument that Ukraine is not truly a separate country from Russia, that the West is responsible for this standoff, and that Ukraine will bear responsibility for any “future bloodletting.”
For people who have dismissed accusations that Russia building an excuse for war, is this not at least ominous? This is the final sentence from the Kremlin’s transcript:
That raises another question: why was it necessary to make such generous gifts, beyond the wildest dreams of the most zealous nationalists and, on top of all that, give the republics the right to secede from the unified state without any conditions?
Reading over his speech, it’s hard to see him as viewing Ukraine with its own will. Instead, it is merely a breakaway nation that should be subject to Russia’s will.
So, according to you, people of Donetsk and Luhansk don’t have the right to self determination. Interesting position to take given that this is precisely what Minsk protocol states, which Ukraine is a signatory to.
No one has a right to secede illegally in a representative democracy. You don’t just go out and declare, with the full support of a invading force occupying another part of your country, independence.
Go read the Minsk agreement that Ukraine is signatory to. The west overthrew the legitimate government in Ukraine that was democratically elected, and installed a fascist puppet regime. The fascists the west supports have been doing ethnic cleansing in eastern parts of Ukraine.
I think Russia needs to butt out of this. No more incursions into Ukraine, no more propaganda about an impending genocide. So far what they have done looks alarming like Nazi Germany’s playbook for the Rhineland. Claim that the ethnic Germans/Russians in a region of another country were under threat, support a separatist movement, then annex that land. And any time you start looking like Nazi Germany in a substantive way, it’s time to start taking a long, hard look at your actions.
It’s not propaganda. Ukraine has been committing war crimes in Donbas for years by attacking water supply and other civilian targets. Meanwhile, comparing Russia today to Nazi Germany is the height of idiocy. Sounds like you’ve been brainwashed by propaganda beyond all hope.
For people who have dismissed accusations that Russia building an excuse for war
I’m pretty convinced at this point that a good amount of people on this site that are either Russian/Chinese propagandists, are apologists, or are just in complete denial. Every post about this has someone calling out Western media as fake news, etc, but here you go. Here is the proof. They all look like idiots with their foot in their mouths now.
Ah yes. The brilliant Russo-Chinese geopolitical strategy. Fund propagandists to spread their agenda on Lemmy of all fucking places.
When they can’t prove you wrong on an issue, or even imagine how anyone could disagree with them, they resort to calling you a Russian bot, just like the Democrats do to everyone who disagrees with them. Apparently most of the world is Russian bots 😂
You should be careful throwing around the word “idiot” with that line of argument 😉
It’s not a joint strategy, necessarily. Chinese, I suspect, are simply paid in social credits for displays of fervent nationalism. But it’s certainly cheap enough to pay a room of shills to repeat your talking points of the day. Even on remote outposts like lemmy. For a country with a weak economy and military like Russia, information war is the best bang for the buck.
I think you’re just too dim to understand. You brought race randomly into this. Now you cast NATO as some power to be feared. It’s a defensive pack. Russia casts it as a boogeyman to justify invading it’s neighbors. That would make you a Russian bootlicker.
No, you do not need to fear NATO. Just look away from all the people they killed in Yugoslavia, Libya, Afghanistan… Nothing to see if you just stick your head in the sand.
The thing is, your argument is just as thin. There is no point in arguing with a stupid person, because they will just bring you down to their level and win. Which is why you’re not worth it. If you really believe the BS russian propaganda, you’re so far gone it’s not worth it. Russia could nuke Kiev and you would try justify it or call it fake news or something. Take vladdy p’s cock out your mouth.
If you really believe the BS russian propaganda, you’re so far gone it’s not worth it. Russia could nuke Kiev and you would try justify it or call it fake news or something.
Why do you believe Western propaganda this much throughout the thread? Can you not see who is gaslighting since what is now 7 years of this repeated stuff?
photo
Take vladdy p’s cock out your mouth.
You seriously need to take a breather from CIA propaganda. That stuff has made you toxic.
You just handwaved 7 years of gaslighting Western propaganda and called my comment invalid opinion, holy shit. You are using r/worldnews tier insults with the other fellow. Even further above you said there is an invasion of Russian/Chinese bots on Lemmy, literally what thousands of Redditors parrot on frontpage daily.
Wow. And what I cited as facts searchable via Google is invalid opinion. Just wow.
Russian invasion of Ukraine is also facts searchable via Google. It doesn’t fucking matter. You’re acting like they are correct in doing so. There is no pretext that allows Russia to invade a sovereign country.
Of note, this line:
For people who have dismissed accusations that Russia building an excuse for war, is this not at least ominous? This is the final sentence from the Kremlin’s transcript:
Reading over his speech, it’s hard to see him as viewing Ukraine with its own will. Instead, it is merely a breakaway nation that should be subject to Russia’s will.
So, according to you, people of Donetsk and Luhansk don’t have the right to self determination. Interesting position to take given that this is precisely what Minsk protocol states, which Ukraine is a signatory to.
No one has a right to secede illegally in a representative democracy. You don’t just go out and declare, with the full support of a invading force occupying another part of your country, independence.
Go read the Minsk agreement that Ukraine is signatory to. The west overthrew the legitimate government in Ukraine that was democratically elected, and installed a fascist puppet regime. The fascists the west supports have been doing ethnic cleansing in eastern parts of Ukraine.
They did what?
systematically murder ethnic Russian people in the region
When? Got any links with more detail?
https://lemmy.ml/post/180102/comment/123746
I think Russia needs to butt out of this. No more incursions into Ukraine, no more propaganda about an impending genocide. So far what they have done looks alarming like Nazi Germany’s playbook for the Rhineland. Claim that the ethnic Germans/Russians in a region of another country were under threat, support a separatist movement, then annex that land. And any time you start looking like Nazi Germany in a substantive way, it’s time to start taking a long, hard look at your actions.
It’s not propaganda. Ukraine has been committing war crimes in Donbas for years by attacking water supply and other civilian targets. Meanwhile, comparing Russia today to Nazi Germany is the height of idiocy. Sounds like you’ve been brainwashed by propaganda beyond all hope.
When Russia’s using the same playbook… well, the glove fits. I don’t make comparisons to Nazis lightly.
All this is war. Not good, and both sides should be more careful, but it’s not genocide.
Given that the west installed literal fascists in power in Ukraine you might want to take a seat there bud.
I know of some of the shady people that were supported by the West and the Ukraine.
Could you shed some more light on the war crimes that Putin refers to? Also could you share the evidence that exists?
attacking civilian targets such as water supply is a war crime
https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/unicef-nearly-2-dozen-attacks-on-water-supply-systems-in-donbas-recorded-since-years-start.html
https://english.elpais.com/international/2022-02-22/no-power-no-water-civilians-in-donbas-region-feel-effects-of-escalating-ukraine-russia-crisis.html
I’m pretty convinced at this point that a good amount of people on this site that are either Russian/Chinese propagandists, are apologists, or are just in complete denial. Every post about this has someone calling out Western media as fake news, etc, but here you go. Here is the proof. They all look like idiots with their foot in their mouths now.
You are unfortunately right about this and I have been seeing an increasing amount of misinformation regarding this situation plague this site.
Ah yes. The brilliant Russo-Chinese geopolitical strategy. Fund propagandists to spread their agenda on Lemmy of all fucking places.
When they can’t prove you wrong on an issue, or even imagine how anyone could disagree with them, they resort to calling you a Russian bot, just like the Democrats do to everyone who disagrees with them. Apparently most of the world is Russian bots 😂
You should be careful throwing around the word “idiot” with that line of argument 😉
It’s not a joint strategy, necessarily. Chinese, I suspect, are simply paid in social credits for displays of fervent nationalism. But it’s certainly cheap enough to pay a room of shills to repeat your talking points of the day. Even on remote outposts like lemmy. For a country with a weak economy and military like Russia, information war is the best bang for the buck.
Imagine being a grown ass adult and believing all that. 😂
It’s simpler than that. They’re paid nothing. It’s of their own accord. It’s kind of sad.
a self referential comment if I ever saw one
“social credits” Racist dehumanizing USA propaganda.
Seasame Credits. What else do you call them, race baiter?
Going for insults now, NATO bootlicker?
I think you’re just too dim to understand. You brought race randomly into this. Now you cast NATO as some power to be feared. It’s a defensive pack. Russia casts it as a boogeyman to justify invading it’s neighbors. That would make you a Russian bootlicker.
No, you do not need to fear NATO. Just look away from all the people they killed in Yugoslavia, Libya, Afghanistan… Nothing to see if you just stick your head in the sand.
The thing is, your argument is just as thin. There is no point in arguing with a stupid person, because they will just bring you down to their level and win. Which is why you’re not worth it. If you really believe the BS russian propaganda, you’re so far gone it’s not worth it. Russia could nuke Kiev and you would try justify it or call it fake news or something. Take vladdy p’s cock out your mouth.
Why do you believe Western propaganda this much throughout the thread? Can you not see who is gaslighting since what is now 7 years of this repeated stuff?
photo
You seriously need to take a breather from CIA propaganda. That stuff has made you toxic.
Russia has now started a full invasion, just like the US had warned.
I need that evidence of “boots on the ground”.
Bro, you’re trying to justify/pretend that Russia didn’t just invade a sovereign country. Your opinion is invalid.
You just handwaved 7 years of gaslighting Western propaganda and called my comment invalid opinion, holy shit. You are using r/worldnews tier insults with the other fellow. Even further above you said there is an invasion of Russian/Chinese bots on Lemmy, literally what thousands of Redditors parrot on frontpage daily.
Wow. And what I cited as facts searchable via Google is invalid opinion. Just wow.
Russian invasion of Ukraine is also facts searchable via Google. It doesn’t fucking matter. You’re acting like they are correct in doing so. There is no pretext that allows Russia to invade a sovereign country.