That assumes that those are legitimate governments. Does every scrap of land that gets its population riled up by a neighboring country with ethnic ties get to succeed?
It’s strange that you keep questioning the legitimacy of those governments given that they’re supported by the people of Donbas and are recognized by Minsk agreements which I assume you have not bothered actually reading.
The Minsk protocols were violated by both sides before the ink dried. The agreement has been reduced to a joke and asking Ukraine to hold to them while its territorial integrity is violated is a matter of selective enforcement.
And I’m sure they would be thrilled if they could do so. Germany especially would find it difficult to impose any sanctions with real teeth due to its dependency on Russian natural gas.
It’s strange that you continue to fall for this shit. It’s actually not strange, it’s kind of suspicious, but mostly comical. They could nuke Kiev and I guarantee you’d be on the lemmy post calling it fake news or trying to justify it.
Bruh, US overthrew a democratically elected government in Ukraine, funded and trained literal fascists there, and is now trying to start WW3, but yeah BoTh SiDeS aRe BaD.
Learn to read please, if you are going to try and derive what I mean, do it right.
Bruh, US overthrew a democratically elected government in Ukraine
This is funny because you can apply the same logic here with Luhansk and Donetsk but you don’t.
There was substantial opposition to Yanukovych prior to the 2010 election and a pattern of corruption established. Post 2010, Party of Regions literally went after and imprisoned the opposition party leader. From this, you should have at least some skepticism of what that Yanukovych’s represents in this case. It can make for a case that is an attempt to seize complete control of a country and erode its democracy. Mixing this with denying Ukrainian’s people’s support of joining the EU, constant cronyism and corruption and then shooting protesters opposing the government… yeah, ain’t great. Remember, Russia supported this guy, so we can somewhat conclude that Russia benefits from having this guy in place.
Of course, this is going to start leading to people in the country feeling like their government is no longer representing them and protests will likely ensue.
funded and trained literal fascists there
Svoboda and Right Sector? Or are you talking about the current government of Ukraine?
Sure, ironically if you typically invade a country like what Russia did, you are going to spur some serious nationalism and embolden those elements. However, Ukrainian people, as of the most recent election are not necessarily fond of those elements as you can by them practically losing almost all representation in their government.
I’m not going to disagree that the US had trained people who are part of the parties previously mentioned and I am not exactly supportive of this as well. However, Russia sending their own military into another country, also training Ukrainians that are supportive of Russia/Russian ethnostate. No one has clean hands in this conflict, but it’s kinda obvious that Russia is the main aggressor here.
Svoboda and Right Sector? Or are you talking about the current government of Ukraine?
Current government in Ukraine is full of extremists an has even integrated Azov battalion, who are unapologetic nazis, into their regular military.
Sure, ironically if you typically invade a country like what Russia did, you are going to spur some serious nationalism and embolden those elements.
[citation needed]
I’m not going to disagree that the US had trained people who are part of the parties previously mentioned and I am not exactly supportive of this as well.
Stop trying to rewrite history. Russia has never been the main aggressor here, and anybody claiming this is either an utter ignoramus or a liar.
There is nothing really in that article that objects to my argument. So, I don’t know what you are on about. Ironically, by providing this argument, you actually proved my point when you said: [citation needed].
So I guess, have you read the article?
Current government in Ukraine is full of extremists an has even integrated Azov battalion, who are unapologetic nazis, into their regular military.
And you have Russian crusaders that are wanting to return Ukraine back to Russia. Ironically, you could just say that Russia is now a hotbed of white supremacists.
There is at least a case with the most recent election that those elements were on the downfall in Ukraine. However, I doubt you want that information to get in the way of your narrative.
Russian funding has been linked to fascist and nationalist parties in other countries: (National Rally, UK Conservative Party, AfD). Sure, I don’t approve of Azov Battaltion and shit like that needs to be removed. However, there is no moral high ground to be achieved here when you when Russia literally does the same thing and is sponsoring RNU in Donbas (which are Russian Neo-Nazis).
Dude, this screams of an attempt to discredit all information regarding the matter. Sure, headlines like this need to be considered, however, the information regarding the matter is not discredited because “OMG WEST POSTS ABOUT THIS”.
Russia has been the main aggressor now since the past 7 years according to Western fake news
Well lets examine some events here:
Invasion of Crimea
Mock Referendum in Crimea (I’m curious how someone could rationalise those questions)
Sponsoring separatists in Donetsk and Luhansk
Providing military equipment to the separatists
Unmarked soldiers
Downing of MH17
Rocketing Mariupol
Considering the points above, yes… Russia has been an aggressor for this period of time :)
Donetsk and Lugansk have been de facto independent for 8 years now, since the US-sponsored, fascist coup in Kiev and subsequent genocide against ethnic Russians in Ukraine. And whether you like it or not, the republics are now officially recognized by Russia, and will probably be recognized soon by other countries like China. Western politicians will whine and implement their sanctions, but no one will care.
I wonder how reliably the US could realistically avoid funding the Azov Battalion while they are funding other parts of the Ukrainian military. They’ve been an official part of the National Guard since 2014.
The idea that the NATO boogieman is behind popular protests is a common Russian propaganda talking point. NATO is just not sophisticated enough to engineer a mass uprising like the Maidan Revolution. If they had, don’t you think their newly minted puppet government would have “invited” them in already, just like Russia did in Donbas?
That assumes that those are legitimate governments. Does every scrap of land that gets its population riled up by a neighboring country with ethnic ties get to succeed?
It’s strange that you keep questioning the legitimacy of those governments given that they’re supported by the people of Donbas and are recognized by Minsk agreements which I assume you have not bothered actually reading.
The Minsk protocols were violated by both sides before the ink dried. The agreement has been reduced to a joke and asking Ukraine to hold to them while its territorial integrity is violated is a matter of selective enforcement.
That’s utter and complete nonsense. In fact, Germany and France are insisting that Ukraine starts implementing Minsk agreement at this very moment.
And I’m sure they would be thrilled if they could do so. Germany especially would find it difficult to impose any sanctions with real teeth due to its dependency on Russian natural gas.
Ah yes, the only country here with pure and humanitarian motivations is the US.
It’s strange that you continue to fall for this shit. It’s actually not strange, it’s kind of suspicious, but mostly comical. They could nuke Kiev and I guarantee you’d be on the lemmy post calling it fake news or trying to justify it.
The only thing comical here is how utterly brainwashed westerners are.
Bruh… people can be critical of both the US and Russia, the fact you weirdly uncritical of Russia does expose your bias.
Bruh, US overthrew a democratically elected government in Ukraine, funded and trained literal fascists there, and is now trying to start WW3, but yeah BoTh SiDeS aRe BaD.
Learn to read please, if you are going to try and derive what I mean, do it right.
This is funny because you can apply the same logic here with Luhansk and Donetsk but you don’t.
There was substantial opposition to Yanukovych prior to the 2010 election and a pattern of corruption established. Post 2010, Party of Regions literally went after and imprisoned the opposition party leader. From this, you should have at least some skepticism of what that Yanukovych’s represents in this case. It can make for a case that is an attempt to seize complete control of a country and erode its democracy. Mixing this with denying Ukrainian’s people’s support of joining the EU, constant cronyism and corruption and then shooting protesters opposing the government… yeah, ain’t great. Remember, Russia supported this guy, so we can somewhat conclude that Russia benefits from having this guy in place.
Of course, this is going to start leading to people in the country feeling like their government is no longer representing them and protests will likely ensue.
Svoboda and Right Sector? Or are you talking about the current government of Ukraine?
Sure, ironically if you typically invade a country like what Russia did, you are going to spur some serious nationalism and embolden those elements. However, Ukrainian people, as of the most recent election are not necessarily fond of those elements as you can by them practically losing almost all representation in their government.
I’m not going to disagree that the US had trained people who are part of the parties previously mentioned and I am not exactly supportive of this as well. However, Russia sending their own military into another country, also training Ukrainians that are supportive of Russia/Russian ethnostate. No one has clean hands in this conflict, but it’s kinda obvious that Russia is the main aggressor here.
You could only apply the same logic if you completely ignore reality and history. Here’s what Jacobin, a western publication has to say about the events of 2014, so maybe stop trying to rewrite history here https://jacobinmag.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea
Current government in Ukraine is full of extremists an has even integrated Azov battalion, who are unapologetic nazis, into their regular military.
[citation needed]
Stop trying to rewrite history. Russia has never been the main aggressor here, and anybody claiming this is either an utter ignoramus or a liar.
There is nothing really in that article that objects to my argument. So, I don’t know what you are on about. Ironically, by providing this argument, you actually proved my point when you said:
[citation needed].So I guess, have you read the article?
And you have Russian crusaders that are wanting to return Ukraine back to Russia. Ironically, you could just say that Russia is now a hotbed of white supremacists.
There is at least a case with the most recent election that those elements were on the downfall in Ukraine. However, I doubt you want that information to get in the way of your narrative.
Russian funding has been linked to fascist and nationalist parties in other countries: (National Rally, UK Conservative Party, AfD). Sure, I don’t approve of Azov Battaltion and shit like that needs to be removed. However, there is no moral high ground to be achieved here when you when Russia literally does the same thing and is sponsoring RNU in Donbas (which are Russian Neo-Nazis).
Russia has been the main aggressor now since the past 7 years according to Western fake news outlets. 6 below + current gaslighting attempt.
Dude, this screams of an attempt to discredit all information regarding the matter. Sure, headlines like this need to be considered, however, the information regarding the matter is not discredited because “OMG WEST POSTS ABOUT THIS”.
Well lets examine some events here:
Considering the points above, yes… Russia has been an aggressor for this period of time :)
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https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2018/06/03/how-why-us-government-perpetrated-2014-coup-ukraine/
US ran a color revolution in 2014 to install a pro western government in Ukraine. This was a long campaign, and even the guardian reported on it back in 2004 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa
and a bit more reporting on recent events from Jacobin https://jacobinmag.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea
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Donetsk and Lugansk have been de facto independent for 8 years now, since the US-sponsored, fascist coup in Kiev and subsequent genocide against ethnic Russians in Ukraine. And whether you like it or not, the republics are now officially recognized by Russia, and will probably be recognized soon by other countries like China. Western politicians will whine and implement their sanctions, but no one will care.
The “coup” where over a hundred protestors were killed by the government? That’s not a coup, that’s mass protests.
The fact that it was a coup is very well documented. Only fascists deny this.
Ah yes, the classic. Calling someone who disagrees with you a fascist.
When it quacks like a duck and supports a fascist government in Ukraine…
Are you talking about the US funding that specific excluded groups a list of groups with fascist ties?
I wonder how reliably the US could realistically avoid funding the Azov Battalion while they are funding other parts of the Ukrainian military. They’ve been an official part of the National Guard since 2014.
US funding did not exclude Azov Battalion until 2018
Meanwhile in the real world
https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/10/16/the-u-s-did-not-defeat-fascism-in-wwii-it-discretely-internationalized-it/
https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/far-right-extremists-in-ukrainian-military-bragged-about-canadian-training-report-says-1.5631304
I’m guessing you’ve never heard of color revolutions
Of course I have, but just because things didn’t go your way doesn’t mean it’s a coup.
You have to be wilfuly ignorant to not know that this was a coup.
The idea that the NATO boogieman is behind popular protests is a common Russian propaganda talking point. NATO is just not sophisticated enough to engineer a mass uprising like the Maidan Revolution. If they had, don’t you think their newly minted puppet government would have “invited” them in already, just like Russia did in Donbas?