Europe won’t be able to finance Ukraine’s defenses against Russia’s invasion on its own if the US withdraws support under Donald Trump’s next presidency, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban said Friday.
Orban said recent events vindicated the conclusions from his controversial July diplomatic mission to Kyiv, Moscow and Beijing and showed Ukraine was losing the war.
“The Americans are going to get out of this war,” Orban, who is hosting a European Union summit in Budapest on Friday, said on public radio. “Europe can’t finance this war on its own.”
Once again, Orban says exactly what Putin wants him to say
At some point it becomes malicious to even print what he says
Once again, a liberal is upset that a war might end and people might stop dying.
In the past I would have understood this comment as perhaps hyperbolic, but now I do believe they just want to see the kill count go up. If Clinton feels that 40,000 dead Palestinians aren’t enough, who knows how he feels about dead Ukrainians and what number would he consider unacceptable.
Exactly, these are complete psychopaths who see human beings as just pawns to be moved around on their grand chess board.
I’m sick & tired of this “vegetarians are just repeating Hitler talking points” fallacious reasoning.
Two people can come to the same conclusion without one parroting the other. In fact two people can come to the same conclusion for completely different reasons, or through completely different reasoning.
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Once again, a lemmy.world poster says exactly what the state department wants him to say.
There is an unfortunate reality that there is a tipping point. At some point, Europe will need to cede Ukraine and stock up for itself to defend the next Russian incursion.
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If the US allows Israel to annex the North of Gaza like it allowed it to annex the Golan Heights, Russia can just point to that as precedent and evidence of US double standards.
The truth is that Russia already has a precedent in Yugoslavia. In fact, Russia intentionally modelled Ukraine on what NATO did in Yugoslavia where they recognized the independence of breakaway regions and had them invite NATO for help.
There is always a cutoff cost. For example, it cannot support Ukraine to the point that it’s own territorial security is compromised.
Ukraine is currently fighting this war for Europe too. Spending money and lifes directly in a confrontation is massively more expensive than sending weapons.
I disagree, Europe needs to never cede Ukraine at any cost—anything else is rewarding the warmonger
Yeah, why would Europe do that? After all its Ukrainians who will continue dying after being kidnapped off the streets and forbidden to leave the country.
Enjoy your life, and don’t think of hundreds of thousands dead people (not like you ever did that of course)…
Yeah the best way to discourage a revanchist is to give him what he wants. Succeeding in Ukraine will definitely convince Putin not to attack the baltics, poland, or finland.
If NATO is really as effective as it’s claimed to be, then the baltics, Poland, and Finland have nothing to worry about.
The enemy is both strong and weak. Russia is a paper tiger that will roll over all of Europe.
That’s what I don’t get. Russia is a laughing stock with its outdated equipment and inability to conquer Ukraine, yet it is also a massive threat to Europe leading Sweden and Finland scrambling to join NATO.
And if we are to believe that NATO is an effective alliance, then surely Russia will go no further than Ukraine. Yet we can’t let Putin win because he will try to go further than Ukraine.
Make it make sense. Some people are talking out both sides of their mouths.
Amazing how there are still people here who don’t understand that NATO lost.
NATO are only tough against small countries with marginal militaries.
It’s literally an alliance of bullies.
stock up for itself to defend the next Russian incursion.
As long as NATO stops its incursions, I don’t see why European states would need to do that.
- George Washington Univ., 2017: NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard
- Jeffrey Sachs, May 2023: The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace
- Jeffrey Sachs, Sep. 2023: NATO Chief Admits NATO Expansion Was Key to Russian Invasion of Ukraine
I was saying that with the assumption that the US winds down support for Ukraine and is not seen as a trusted partner for European security.
I mean, the US Democrat administration blew up its European partner’s gas pipeline, which is a casus belli, so it was already untrustworthy.
Henry Kissinger:
- America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests.
- It may be dangerous to be America’s enemy, but to be America’s friend is fatal.
That is a crazy take. Europe could spend some money and help Ukraine win this without losing any of their own soldiers’ lives.
yeah, it’s only Ukrainians hopping into the meat grinder, after all
🤡
He’s wrong of course, Europe’s economy is many times stronger than Russia’s. The real question is if they can find the collective will to defend themselves.
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Agreed. Apparently the mod does not agree.
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In a sane world, orban, putin, Fico and Trump would have been rid of years ago
Orban is a traitor to democracy and mankind, fuck him.
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Orban only fears the EU gives less money to him.
The only positive outcome from Harris losing.
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No, I want NATO to lose
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Says the man always dragging his feet when time comes to support Ukraine’s self-defense
What a weird way to say support for the western installed regime forcing Ukrainians to fight a proxy war against Russia.
Don’t put a shithead’s message in the headline. It spreads it. Headlines must be true, not false.
Look up George Lakoff videos, everybody.
The Eurozone is structurally neoliberal, austerian, and anti-Keynesian, and Europe—which was already greatly de-industrialized—is right now further de-industrializing thanks to their self-imposed sanctions against Russia (and thanks to their NATO “partner” blowing up their gas pipeline), which has raised energy prices.
Orban is correct.
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Not a great guy, but in this case he is completely right.
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For all the people here “supporting Ukraine” because you know, if Putin captures Ukraine then he will genocide Ukrainians and all that - this is exactly the same narration that Zelensky’s regime is using to kidnap people and send them to the meatgrinder (kill them). A video from Kharkiv where TCC attempts to kidnap people from a bus scaring them with “Russian World” coming to Ukraine: https://files.catbox.moe/c72hez.MP4
People in the bus are accusing them of being “a traitor to the motherland” and telling them to go fuck themselves. But you know better what those people should do, right? They all should go and die for your wild fantasies of “but but but Putin will invade the whole world if we don’t stop him (well, not you personally of course, why would you go and fight your wars, but you know, Ukrainians)”.
After all, Zelensky said that Ukrainians are willing to fight, and he would never lie, right? All the videos, articles in your western medias about people NOT wanting to fight but still being exterminated by Zelensky’s regime, etc are fakes.Eh, and as almost my every comment like this one, it got reported by some LW user with reason “pro Russian bot” :/
If you think that caring about peoples’ lives and posting evidence of human right abuses is somehow a sign of a person being Russian, or just something that is worth a condemnation… What kind of mental gymnastics routine are you doing every morning to still consider yourself a good person?..You know, I would be surprised that you say this insane shit, but you are in a libertarian instance, so irony is lost. Although I’ve never seen a libertarian tankie, so thats new. Fuck the government unless that government is a fascist one with a dictator, then that is okay of course
Fuck the government unless that government is a fascist one with a dictator, then that is okay of course
What? I just criticized a fascist government with a dictator, and you accuse me of not doing that? 🤦♂
And what is “insane” in my comment?
Ukranian governement is not fascist, nor with a dictator. If they werent invaded by a fascist imperialist government, they would have had elections by now. They don’t have them, because the polling places would be shelled by orcs, as they always shell civilians.
Posting a random video, with a story, without providing a single fucking source (that isn’t russian propaganda). You also insinuated zelenski is exterminating his people, which is insane
Ukranian governement is not fascist, nor with a dictator.
It is both. Zelensky’s regime ticks almost every (or just every) description of fascism from wikipedia. He is a dictator. Even your comment in the next sentences doesn’t DISPROVE it, you merely try to JUSTIFY it.
Posting a random video, with a story, without providing a single fucking source (that isn’t russian propaganda).
I (re)posted dozens of such videos already, where my compatriots who haven’t managed to escape Zelensky’s murderous regime either fight kidnapping attempts from TCC, or try to escape or are getting caught and busified.
This was described countless times in western media https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/10/03/ukraine-is-employing-increasingly-controversial-methods-for-mobilization_6728127_4.html and I actually just found out it is also described in wikipedia now, including the word busification https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_conscription_crisis, and yet there is always someone to deny it. As for my sources, I mainly take it from Ukrainian telegram channels, where people post those from first sources.
“Ухилянт Iнфо”: https://t.me/+ECYgfpxkTz4zOGNh
“Ховайся”: https://t.me/HOVAYSY
“Реальний Київ”: https://t.me/kievreal1But Ukrainians are Russian bots now, right? How dare we, not willing to die for your interests?
You also insinuated zelenski is exterminating his people, which is insane
Why? He literally forbade people from leaving the country, kidnaps people one by one off the streets and sends them to their deaths. How is this not an extermination? Every moment he remains in power is a moment he exterminates more and more Ukrainians, if he won’t be stopped he will kill everyone.
no comment
The Americans are going to get out of this war,
I just hope he is correct
I hope the Russians get out of it as it has hurt them the most.
It has unquestionably hurt the Ukrainian people the most.
Meanwhile in the real world. Russia was able to successfully redirect its trade towards the Global South at this point. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/russian-oil-gas-revenue-soars-41-first-half-data-shows-2024-07-03/
The World Bank just reclassified Russia as a high income country https://blogs.worldbank.org/en/opendata/world-bank-country-classifications-by-income-level-for-2024-2025
Meanwhile, the IMF forecasts that Russian economy is set to grow faster than all the western economies https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/17/russia-forecast-to-grow-faster-than-advanced-economies-in-2024-imf.html
Europe is the big loser here after Ukraine. Having lost access to the Russian market and cheap energy. Meanwhile, Russia selling energy on the cheap to China and India makes Europe uncompetitive in terms of manufacturing.
The Americans aren’t in the war. They’re just dealing in arms.
Americans are in the war, but Western media aren’t going to broadcast that. We have support forces in Ukraine, we provide Ukraine with invaluable intel and targeting data, we have American volunteers in the International Legion (one of whom was killed in action this week, and he wasn’t the first). Biden announced yesterday that he’s going to let even more Americans directly fight in this war.
The international legion is made up of people from around the world, not just the US. It’s not under US command. US civilians can act as they wish. Their actions are not the actions of their country.
The story you link is Biden relaxing US corporations taking up supply and support contracts. The article even says that these organisations will NOT be fighting, yet you willfully misinterpret it.
The USA, the country, is not in Ukraine.
