Has anyone else noticed how prevalent Hexbear posters have suddenly become? Maybe sometime last week I noticed nearly every political post had at least one long thread of Hexbear users that do nothing but repeat CCP talking points while waving anyway anything even remotely reliable as Western propaganda. That or getting all excited about trolled libs. The way they tell it, you’d think everything from DW, to Fox, to Propublica, to straight up AP News articles, are all written by the same people.
Not to mention, their info on the Fediverse observer is either straight up wrong or there’s some serious botting going on. According to that, the instance is less than a month old, yet somehow they already have one of the largest, most active userbases, along with far and away the most comments of any instance.
Seems to me like Lemmygrad on steroids. Considering we defederated from them, seems like a no-brainer to block Hexbear as well.
So glad this thread could become such a perfect microcosm of why we need to defederate.
So glad this thread could become such a perfect microcosm of why we need to defederate.
You asked about us. We came out in force to answer you. Why is that surprising or evidence of anything? We don’t have a downvote feature, so we’re used to responding when we disagree. And of course we’re going to defend ourselves.
Its so funny how you guys became so used to being able to live in an echo chamber of western capitalist propaganda on reddit, then moved here, then had that bubble popped by us and lemmygrad, then became INCREDIBLY DESPERATE to get away from opinions you previously were sheltered from. Its just a funny reaction to witness. Meanwhile, liberalism is something I can never really escape. Because its everywhere. I dont actually have the option to completely unplug.
Anyway, if your instance defeded lemmygrad I have no doubt you’ll get your way with us sooner rather than later.
Hexbear is actually one of the oldest Lemmy instances, been around for over three years. Due to technical issues around our high number of active users and having to rely on volunteer labour, we have only been able to federate within the last few weeks.
The way they tell it, you’d think everything from DW, to Fox, to Propublica, to straight up AP News articles, are all written by the same people.
Because they are. This isn’t even a radical far left idea. Ever heard of “Manufacturing Consent” by Noam Chomsky? That’s one of the main arguments, that the media is owned and controlled by the capitalist class.
Lemmy was built by communists and the audacity of these liberals to come here and demand shelter from exposure to communists is really something
looks at my own account age
Nah bro I think we’re all one month old bot accounts personally ran by the standing committee of the Politburo of the People’s Republic of China and the standing committee of the Supreme People’s Assembly of the People’s Republic of Korea
Seems like you’re missing a ton of nuance in manufacturing consent, and have turned from the frying pan into the fire in that sense.
Yes, Western media is biased towards corporations. This is most clearly seen in anything labeled “finance” or “money”, but is pervasive.
But the only time I can ever think of Western media doing anything on the scale of censoring the 1989 Tiananmin Square Massacre is the Iraq MWD debacle. And they’ve never done anything like the Great Firewall.
As a rule the US government does not mislead its own citizens the way Russia and China do.
And even if you’re 100% on board with every word Marx has written, I don’t understand how that leads one to defend modern day Russia and China.
The West absolutely has problems. And it’s good and right to point those out and try to fix them. But to try to paint the East as the answer to stand against the West is dangerous and dumb.
And they’ve never done anything like the Great Firewall.
The great firewall is for your own protection, just look at how you guys react to a small group of users with different opinions!
As a rule the US government does not mislead its own citizens the way Russia and China do.
How do you know that? Did the US government tell you?
Hexbear doesn’t “defend modern day Russia”. I’m sure there are some users who do purely from a position of believing a multipolar world is preferable to one dominated unilaterally by the US, but even in those users think Putin is a piece of shit.
There’s a difference between understanding NATO’s role in provoking the war in Ukraine, not calling Russians orcs or comparing Putin to Hitler and defending modern-day Russia.
1989 Tiananmin Square Massacre
As a rule the US government does not mislead its own citizens the way Russia and China do.
USians are literally the most propagandized pop on the planet.
USians are the only dipshits who think their state will just do the right thing with zero pressure.
Imagine thinking the people living in a system where bribery and corruption have literally been legalized and (somehow) still believe is the least corrupt system on earth, have not been propagandized into a pulp of absolute impotence and servility.
As a rule the US government does not mislead its own citizens the way Russia and China do.
But the only time I can ever think of Western media doing anything on the scale of censoring the 1989 Tiananmin Square Massacre is the Iraq MWD debacle.
then you should try to do some more thinking. maybe even some reading
As a rule the US government does not mislead its own citizens the way Russia and China do.
You should check out literally any declassified CIA document.
But the only time I can ever think of Western media doing anything on the scale of censoring the 1989 Tiananmin Square Massacre is the Iraq MWD debacle.
As a rule the US government does not mislead its own citizens the way Russia and China do.
Hundreds of thousands of people were murdered for no reason to accomplish nothing but to line the pockets of Raytheon shareholders. And you write it off as if it doesn’t even matter.
No one, neither the politicians nor the journalists who knowingly lied to you faced any repercussions. Not only that, but in many cases, it’s the same people in the same positions with no reason not to do it again.
Even if you ignore all the other times that the media has lied, how many people do you believe died at Tiananmen Square to think that the two are remotely comparable?
But the only time I can ever think of Western media doing anything on the scale of censoring the 1989 Tiananmin Square Massacre is the Iraq MWD debacle.
First of all, multiple western sources agree with us on Tiananmin Square
Second Iraq is definitly not the only time. Vietnam is another huge example. Literally every post-WWII military conflict has involved the press lying about it to manufacture consent. Some of the things are things you probably haven’t realized you’re being lied to about it yet though, so if I use them as examples it won’t help. But still.
Manufacturing Consent wasn’t just about the media being on the side of the corporations, its also about them being on the side of Western imperlialist motivations. And they will lie to you about “enemy countries” over, and over, and over again.
As a rule the US government does not mislead its own citizens the way Russia and China do.
You think this because you don’t see the misleading happening and believing the things the western sources tell you about the “bad countries”.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre
CW: description of the events of it from Wikipedia, mention of: media suppression of a massacre, mass killing of civilians, r*pe, infanticide, pedophilia and mutilation, picture of the dead mutilated women and children under a sub spoiler warning
Between 347 and 504 civilians were killed by US soldiers from Company C, 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment and Company B, 4th Battalion, 3rd Infantry Regiment, 11th Brigade, 23rd (Americal) Infantry Division. Victims included men, women, children, and infants. Some of the women were gang-raped and their bodies mutilated, and some soldiers mutilated and raped children who were as young as 12.
photo of some of the victims
media suppression of the massacre and the (lack of) consequences for those responsible
Only Lieutenant William Calley Jr., a platoon leader in C Company, was convicted. Found guilty of murdering 22 villagers, he was originally given a life sentence but served three-and-a-half years under house arrest after US President Richard Nixon commuted his sentence.
…
On 4 April 1968, the information office of the 11th Brigade issued a press-release, Recent Operations in Pinkville, without reporting mass casualties among civilians. Subsequent criminal investigation found that, “Both individuals failed to report what they had seen, the reporter wrote a false and misleading account of the operation, and the photographer withheld and suppressed from proper authorities the photographic evidence of atrocities he had obtained.”
…
The first reporting of the Mỹ Lai massacre appeared in the American media after Fort Benning issued a press release related to the charges pressed against Lieutenant William Calley. This was issued on 5 September 1969.[163]
Consequently, NBC aired on 10 September 1969 a segment in the Huntley-Brinkley Report which reported the killings of numerous civilians in South Vietnam. Following that, Ronald Ridenhour decided to disobey the Army’s order to withhold the information from the media. He approached reporter Ben Cole of the Phoenix Republic, who chose not to handle the scoop. Charles Black from the Columbus Enquirer uncovered the story on his own but also decided to put it on hold. Two major national news press outlets—The New York Times and The Washington Post—received some tips with partial information but did not act on them.[164]
Ridenhour called Seymour Hersh on 22 October 1969. The freelance investigative journalist conducted an independent inquiry, and published to break the wall of silence that was surrounding the Mỹ Lai massacre. Hersh initially tried to sell the story to Life and Look magazines; both turned it down. Hersh went to the small, Washington-based Dispatch News Service, which sent it to fifty major American newspapers; thirty accepted it for publication.[165] New York Times reporter Henry Kamm investigated further and found several survivors of the Mỹ Lai massacre in South Vietnam. He estimated the number of civilians killed as 567.[166]
Next, Ben Cole published an article about Ronald Ridenhour, a helicopter gunner and an Army whistleblower, who was among the first who started to uncover the truth about the Mỹ Lai massacre. And Haeberle contacted Joseph Eszterhas of The Plain Dealer, which then published Haeberle’s grisly images of the dead bodies of old men, women, and children on 20 November 1969.[44] Time Magazine’s article on 28 November 1969 and in Life magazine on 5 December 1969, both of which included Haeberle’s photos,[167] finally brought Mỹ Lai to the fore of the public debate about Vietnam War.[168]
Richard L. Strout, the Christian Science Monitor political commentator, wrote: “American press self-censorship thwarted Mr. Ridenhour’s disclosures for a year. ‘No one wanted to go into it’, his agent said of telegrams sent to Life, Look, and Newsweek magazines outlining allegations…”[169]
Afterward, interviews and stories connected to the Mỹ Lai massacre started to appear regularly in the American and international press.[170][49]
Concluding an ABC television news broadcast, anchor man Frank Reynolds said to his audience that, as a consequence of the allegations, ‘‘our spirit as a people is scarred.’’ The massacre, he believed, offered ‘‘the most compelling argument yet advanced for America to end its involvement in Vietnam, not alone because of what the war is doing to the Vietnamese or to our reputation abroad, but because of what it is doing to us.’
The US government doesn’t have to (but still does anyway) mislead its own citizens because it works hand in glove with the class it represents (not you) which does all the misleading via the private “free press” that it owns and operates for it’s own benefit.
For the life of me I will never understand why liberals think something bad is less bad when it is a private actor doing it instead of the government, but the private actors actually control more of your daily life than the government does because you live in a neoliberal hellscape.
You have no control over anything the government OR the corporate overlords do. Does it really matter which one is screwing you when they’re basically all the same people anyway?
With regard to China, please just try to ask yourself why the standard of living has been improving there for decades while it continues to decline in the US. It’s not fucking rocket science, but you can’t rely on western corporate media to explain it to you.
As a rule the US government does not mislead its own citizens the way Russia and China do.
I think most of users on hexbear and lemmygrad are not from US, so internal US politics is not so important to them, foreign policy is and that’s where US made a lot of haters.
It is not even that surprising, every country that was in war with US involved is not liking it, no one likes other nation’s army on their teritory, whatever the reason.
A ton of hexbear users are from the US, and still live there.
Yep, sorry my mistake. Thanks for correcting me.
lol what? hexbear is largely amerikan. we just have a lot of international users bc we arent racist. US internal politics are horrific as well. Biden wrote the bill responsible for the massive increase in policing and the war on drugs in 1994
Makes sense, since podcast is from US too. Thank you for correcting me, I have never spent much time there since I don’t get the humor.
no problem. ik theres a lot of inside jokes so it can be confusing at first, but we are very welcoming as long as ur receptive to left-wing politics and act in good faith
It’s not a matter of liking the US but how it affects my country, that’s how I know about American politics.
Their Internal politics influence foreign policy and economic exchange tied to the dollar.
On the contrary, Americans tend to be myopic about foreign policy because it doesn’t affect them.
That’s why I don’t care about the Democratic-Republican political theater, they have the same foreign policy anyway (neoliberal imperialism).
Biden claims to be pro-LGBT for example, yet upholds the same US military that brutally abuses and kills transpeople, women and children abroad. Do you still think that it’s as simple as
It is not even that surprising, every country that was in war with US involved is not liking it, no one likes other nation’s army on their teritory, whatever the reason.
whatever the reason.
liking or disliking on a whim, like a high school crush? PSY faced so much backlash when it was revealed that he made an Anti-American song a decade before Gangnam Style, but the American press conviniently all forgot about the events that influenced it.
An American tank crushed two Korean teens walking on public road to go to a party.
no one likes other nation’s army on their teritory, whatever the reason.
The servicemen got away scot-free.
But to try to paint the
EastGlobal South as the answer to stand against the West is dangerous and dumbdamn you sound like a chauv lol
just say you don’t like the Asianic horde
go full mask-off
But the only time I can ever think of Western media doing anything on the scale of censoring the 1989 Tiananmin Square Massacre is
inventing the reality of the 1989 TIANANMEN Square Massacre in the first place
But the only time I can ever think of Western media doing anything on the scale of censoring the 1989 Tiananmin Square Massacre is the Iraq MWD debacle.
Aside from the incredible irony of this statement that others have mentioned
the only time I can ever think of Western media doing anything on the scale of
the only time I can ever think of
What leads you to being able to think of examples in China? Was it because you were there and experienced it yourself? Or did you hear about it from people who were there? Did you look through archives in China? Did you see modern reporting from (to pick an arbitrary state) India on this topic?
Or did you hear about it from western media themselves?
Can you see a conflict of interest in that conception of things? Perhaps especially when it comes to reporting on media fabrications in the west?
Edit: Russiagate is a fun example because I don’t give a shit either way, but the Dem-aligned media did an excellent job of convincing their base that Russia first hacked the election and then somehow flipped the election with Facebook ads, and had QAnon-level lore with Igor Fuckstyvich and Boris Shitov in a great web of conspiracy theories to draw connections between people. It was all so tedious that I stopped following it pretty early, but a lot of people still genuinely believe that shit even as it was shown that Russia did very, very little.
Also it keeps evading the notice of liberals that if Russia bought the election, that means Facebook sold it! I think that second one would be much more of a concern, especially since it should be more actionable for the US to control one of its own companies. Whoops.
Edit 2: Consider that most of what you believe about the DPRK is false because the media in the west is just a constant churn of comically bullshit stories. haircuts, anyone?
the instance is less than a month old
smartest, most well researched midwesterner
Honestly, federation with Hexbear has improved my Lemmy experience 1000%. I think it would be silly to defederate because a vocal minority of libs don’t like their worldview to be challenged. You can individually block the instance if you don’t appreciate the vibe.
As far as I can tell they embrace leftist unity which is something we could all use more of.
The way they tell it, you’d think everything from DW, to Fox, to Propublica, to straight up AP News articles, are all written by the same people.
They are, it’s called the capitalist class.
And your information is incorrect, hexbear is one of the oldest Lemmy instances, and we’ve always been among the most active. My account is over 3 years old. It’s just that we only federated recently.
It’s so strange how all the rich news companies would report in a way that supports the interests of rich people. So weird!
I, for one, welcome our new HexBear overlords!
And we welcome our new peons
Welcome! I love your Super Monkey Ball pfp :) we have one site tag line (a little funny sentence or paragraph at the top of page which changes every time you load) and one of them is shit talking SMB so I hope you don’t get it and get turned off.
and one of them is shit talking SMB so I hope you don’t get it and get turned off.
Oh did I mention I’m also the admin of this instance? DEFED
hi comrade we love you fr
Ah yes, the classic wealthy journalist. Everyone knows that reporting is where the big bucks truly lie. I guess it’s impossible for literally anyone living anywhere but the like 3 countries that pretend to be communist to report on anything accurately.
who pays the journalists? who sets editorial policy? who prevents the journalists from unionizing?
Who fires them if they disobey orders, and shuts down the whole paper just to prevent competition from the rags they outright own?
Ford Foundation Carnegie Corporation
Lmao you just owned yourself with this link. I love when libs link wikipedia links they havent actually read.
Fair enough, I was wrong about ProPublica.
I’m sure you’ll find this quote from the Wikipedia entry on the Ford Foundation interesting:
“John J. McCloy, the architect of Office of Strategic Services that would later become Central Intelligence Agency served as the chairman of the Ford Foundation.[74] The CIA would channel its funds through Ford Foundation as a part of its covert cultural war.[75][76][77] John J. McCloy, serving as the chairman from 1958–1965, knowingly employed numerous US intelligence agents and, based on the premise that a relationship with the CIA was inevitable, set up a three-person committee responsible for dealing with its requests.[78][79] Writer and activist Arundhati Roy connects the foundation, along with the Rockefeller Foundation, with supporting imperialist efforts by the U.S. government during the Cold War.”
This is indeed interesting. What does that tell you about the state of western media?
Former CIA Agent John Stockwell Talks about How the CIA Worked in Vietnam and Elsewhere https://youtu.be/NK1tfkESPVY
Obv the military industrial complex grew significantly since the release of this
What does that tell you about the state of western media?
Trying to generalize based on a single example is poor reasoning.
YouTube: I don’t do YouTube, sorry, no offense to you or whatever you’re trying to convey.
While the Sandler Foundation provided ProPublica with significant financial support, it also has received funding from the Knight Foundation, MacArthur Foundation, Pew Charitable Trusts, Ford Foundation, the Carnegie Corporation, and the Atlantic Philanthropies.
Lol u can’t be serious
MacArthur Foundation
THAT MacArthur?!
Oh shit, a Wikipedia page.
I just want to point out how funny it is that you have zero points on this post considering none of the hexbear bRiGaDerS have the ability to downvote
The idea that media companies in the the west are subservient to the interests of capital and the military industrial state isn’t even a “tankie” take on the left. Similar ideas have been espoused by many people across the left, the most famous of which being Manufacturing Consent by Noam Chomsky.
the like 3 countries that pretend to be communist
You sound like an immensely condescending chauvinist. Does Cuba not live up to your very informed view on communism?
irrespective of any other empirical claims you’re making in this thread, you must see how ridiculous it is to claim that news from massive private and state owned corporations is little influenced by money because low level journalists aren’t paid well (if you reflect on it for a moment). it’d be like imagining that Wal Mart’s corporate policies are decided by cashiers and store shelvers
Like have you never had a job before? Like if you’re gonna accuse people of being out of touch, stop buying $10 bananas
I’m glad there are liberals like you around to tell us communists who is really communist
Is the executive of the media company that owns the news outlet also a journalist? Is the financial conglomerate that owns the media company as well as the missile company, also a journalist? Come on, you must have thought at least once in your life about this actually existing hierarchy of capitals and how it influences what news gets published and who gets to work as a journalist.
Ah yes, the classic wealthy journalist.
Do the journalists you read personally hand their writings to you? Or is there some intermediary that gets them to you, some wealthy entity that handles the publishing of those writings?
Ah yes, the classic wealthy journalist.
Ah yes, the classic wealthy Amazon worker. Everyone knows that having a logistics and retail monopoly is where the big bucks truly lie.
Obviously because the lowest level worker in this industry is not wealthy themselves, it means that suggesting the industry as a whole is both owned and serves the interests of entrenched power and wealth IS BIG DUMB LOL
Friend here really thinks we’re going after journalists for making imaginary bank, and not Murdoch and his mates.
I don’t think that the CCP cares enough about Lemmy to make bots. Lmao.
We are a leftist community that has existed for about 3 years before we federated.
The stuff we believe and discuss are leftist talking points you would hear in any ML org.
Have you ever spoken to any actual, theory-reading leftists or have you only ever spoken to Neoliberal Democrat types? Because from a political science point of view, Dems are not leftists, they’re capitalists.
I swear we are not scary people, we are just really, really frustrated with the capitalist status quo and the liberal bullshitting some people use to defend it.
Bots are cheap, and Lemmy is growing. It would be foolish for them not to get in on this early.
You are right, of course, that leftism != liberalism. But just saying that doesn’t count as an argument. I haven’t yet seen what Menachem is complaining about, but I will be paying attention.
EDIT: On further read, you guys kind of feel at the very least like the left-wing equivalent of somethingawful.com.
On further read, you guys kind of feel at the very least like the left-wing equivalent of somethingawful.com.
Oh my God that’s genuinely so sweet
I’m honestly not sure if I mean that as a compliment or not. They’re exactly what it says on the tin, but you can’t deny they’re an effective bunch.
It’s kind of an ironic thing to say these days considering how many leftists there are on SA.
I’m explaining, not arguing.
Bots are cheap, and Lemmy is growing. It would be foolish for them not to get in on this early.
All I can say is I’m not a bot. What you want to believe is up to you.
I’m not saying you are a bot, merely that your argument is weak.
will the debate pervertry never cease
What argument? All I’ve done is politely explain who we are
Jesus Christ libs really think everything is an argument to sell them something. Lmao absolute consumer brain. What capitalism does to a motherfucker.
She did a strawman, she did a no true Scotsman, she did an ad hominem
Purge yourself of this brain rot
If you want to take the issue of social media manipulation seriously, you need to take a moment to consider who is best positioned and best motivated to carry out these operations. The vast majority of the English-speaking social media platforms are headquartered in Silicon Valley, domiciled in the US. This includes TikTok. Despite all the hippie California Ideology bullshit, the Valley has been closely linked with the Pentagon since its inception (See Palo Alto by Malcom Harris, or Surveillance Valley by Yasha Levine as two examples of this history.) Today, these giant tech firms still live off the teat of military contracts. From Microsoft to Google to Amazon.
The social media platforms enjoy a regime of immense power and nil regulations. There are a lot of ways the state could cause these companies pain if it were interested, from rescinding contracts to imposing regulation, to engaging in some bona fide anti-trust litigation, but this doesn’t happen because they have an understanding. These companies collaborate with the state in surveillance, they install figures like Jessica Ashooh at Reddit - straight out of the Atlantic Council - to run moderation policy. They facilitate counterinsurgency by sweeping up disclosures like the Blue Leaks and shutting down dissident communities in the midst of large scale civil unrest. They flood these platforms with war propaganda when it is convenient, lay the seeds of doubt whenever US interests are challenged abroad. They allow floods of fake users to post positively about US-aligned coups like the one in Bolivia, or the SOSCuba nonsense. We literally have military formations who’s sole task is to manipulate opinion on social media.
These are the people manipulating public opinion on social media. They are the ones holding the keys to the platforms. The ones who DECIDE what the algorithm is going to show you day after day after day. The ones who let shitholes like r/The_Donald to run roughshod for years, then ban communities like r/ChapoTrapHouse in the middle of the biggest domestic protest movement in US history. The ones who remove moderators from places like r/PresidentialRaceMemes and replace them with ideologues from r/Neoliberal to ensure the website closes ranks against the most underwhelming candidate and political vision conceivable for the moment.
Seriously consider the power held by the people operating these platforms. What they believe. What their material interests are. Who they network with. Who they do business with. What constraints exist to severely punish them if they undermine the interests of state. Consider that, and balance that against the overblown panic about foreign influence bots. Which one do you think has a bigger impact?
States are massive, chaotic social systems. I’m not going to say that foreign influence ops don’t occur, because within each state there are competing factions with different interests. But consider China is much more concerned with domestic conditions within their country than they are about what a bunch of Redditors, who they have blocked, think about them anyway. Consider the same about Russia. Consider the disparity in power these countries have to manipulate infrastructure owned and operated in the United States compared to the people who actually own it, and the state agencies which have the jurisdiction to destroy these firms if they step out of line.
Saving this one.
first and second off lmfao
third off yeah im pretty sure a plurality of users here are veterans in their late 20s to early 30s of the mid-2000s cultural miasma
Exception in thread "main" IllegalArgumentException: 23 at parseLlamaTokens.main(parseLlamaTokens.java:28)There’s definitely a lot of SomethingAwful influence in our culture. /R/chapotraphouse, the subreddit whose banning spawned our website, had a ton of that energy too.
It would be foolish for them not to get in on this early
China has never been very good at English soft power projection
it do smell like :10bux: in here
So many visible pronouns to upbear in this thread.
We’ve existed for three years but about a month ago we converted to upstream lemmy so that’s probably why it says we’re only a month old.
As a community our focus is to be a radically queer inclusive (literally more than half our mods are trans or enby and most of the cis mods are some flavour of gay or bi) space for leftist unity that heavily discourages lurking (which is probably why our posts are so visible because no one really just downvotes and moves along when they see a comment they don’t like - we literally don’t even have a downvote option)
We federated like a week ago and so I think our users are still letting the urge to dunk out of their systems, personally I can’t really be bothered with all that (except with one guy that came into our instance and started slinging around homophobia at the users and immediately got dogpiled) I’m mostly just posting on the cool queer communities on lemmy.blahaj.zone
Hard to be inclusive when the response to almost anything and everything is to call someone a “shitlib” and dip, unless you mean inclusively exclusive by insulting everyone.
What really puts the nail in that coffin, though, is the very extreme support Hexbear has for China, unless, again, you are comfortable denying everyone basic human rights so it’s considered inclusive.
Hard to be inclusive when the response to almost anything and everything is to call someone a “shitlib” and dip, unless you mean inclusively exclusive by insulting everyone.
When you live in a society where then entirety of mainstream discourse is between one side rainbow-washing carpetbombers and the other side calling that rainbow-washing evidence of an evil queer agenda, it sure should look like anyone repeating mainstream talking points is a shitlib.
What really puts the nail in that coffin, though, is the very extreme support Hexbear has for China, unless, again, you are comfortable denying everyone basic human rights so it’s considered inclusive.
Sticking to the queer topic, this is like when people used to concern troll about Cuba because it had laws in the '70s that were as homophobic as the typical western country, but that has become more difficult in the last few years as it has taken up – to my knowledge – the most progressive, inclusive family code in the world.
China right now is perhaps slightly behind the average western country in this respect, but there is a clear positive trend.
Supporting China is normal and good. Sorry there aren’t any mods here to make it seem like your bazinga brain views are popular.
Ok, which HumanRights ™️ are we talking about?
Hard to be inclusive if you let bigoted shitlibs do their thing without pushback .
idk i’m a trans lesbian and i have been on hexbear for 3 years and never been insulted or made to feel unwelcome on account of my identity a single time
now if by “inclusive” you mean “tolerant of right-wing bullshit” then no, we’re not, and we never will be
Hard to be inclusive when the response to almost anything and everything is to call someone a “shitlib” and dip, unless you mean inclusively exclusive by insulting everyone.
As a trans woman, i’ve never felt safe in liberal spaces, and the reason for that is largely debatebro shitheads like you who violently fight back against anything that challenges your notion of living in the best of all possible worlds, which reliably happens to include my own experiences with and thoughts on transphobia, mysogyny, classism and other forms of structural oppression and their intersections. Anytime i’ve done that in public online spaces that aren’t exclusively trans, i’ve been browbeaten, called into doubt and silenced. I’ve never had that on hexbear. Let’s not even begin with the fact that i’ve never had to explain to a hexbear mod what constitutes transphobia because half of the mod team is trans themselves, or that pronoun tags are mandatory, or that we’ve systematically banned anybody making a fuss about either of that.
Hexbear has actually put in the work to be a queer-inclusive space. And it has done that precisely by being brutally intolerant and absolutely belligerent to queerphobes instead of doing the liberal thing of empty gestures of tolerance while upholding the status quo that maims us. Meanwhile, anything you’ve ever done on lemmy is posting passive-aggressive one-liners and anti-communist garbage. Go fuck yourself.
Inclusive of marginalized groups, not liberalism
We are explicitly anti liberalism given that it supports an inherently discriminatory economic system (capitalism).
I’m a bisexual trans girl whose found this space to be the most accepting space I’ve ever been in on the internet (including many exclusively trans spaces).
Also many of us are not as pro China as we seem from the outside, I’m a lot more critical of china than many of the other hexbear users and we have a decent number of anarchists who post here, however we close ranks against imperialist narratives pushing for a right wing coup of the Chinese government because regardless of our differing ideologies we all agree that would be awful for the Chinese people.
lol ”basic human rights”
I bet you’re over on
fantasizing about grinding homeless people into a slurry right now.Lifting 800 million people out of poverty is denying them human rights, damn Europe must be a gulag compared to that
Hexbear is the most inclusive instance. If it’s hard to be inclusive then we’re just fucking great at it
Its possible for us to disagree about china without ripping each others heads off, I’ve been doin it for years
Getting called on the specific shit they’re doing:
“you just accuse everyone of [the shit I’m doing]!”
Hard to be inclusive when the response to almost anything and everything is to call someone a “shitlib” and dip, unless you mean inclusively exclusive by insulting everyone.
Gonna need to second the other posters pointing out that as a trans person this is by far the most queer inclusive space I’ve ever been on the internet. I’ve been around for 3 years because it’s actually a breath of fresh air scrolling through interactions between people without having to tolerate the high baseline misogyny and hitler particles present in the rest of the internet.
The way they tell it, you’d think everything from DW, to Fox, to Propublica, to straight up AP News articles, are all written by the same people.
Same type of person. Careerist strivers who all accept the basic liberal version of history and society. The liberal version of history coincides with the reactionary version of history because they both refuse to question the premises of capitalism. That is they both agree more over capitalism and Western Hegemony more than they disagree about specific cultural issues. They don’t all have to be in the same room, coordinating on a narrative because they all share the same boundaries of inquiry. So the same kind of stuff gets written without active coordination. This is a roundabout way to say they’re all of the same class. They have class solidarity.
A liberal news source will talk about how good and downtrodden immigrants are. A conservative news source will talk about how all immigrants are drug dealers. But they don’t disagree that there both needs to be immigration or that it needs to be regulated. A good real world example of this is Democrats flipping out over Trump’s racism and then upping funding for “border security” and advocating for a tech wall. Neither question the fundamental assumptions about immigration. Both advocate for the same idea, just in different abstractions. Nobody actually thinks the person who writes a bleeding heart article gets up from their chair and sits at a different desk where they write about caravans of cartel members. Though you do get the same person/organization drifting into sounding like their opposition, like the NYT. Which illustrates, again, that they’re the same class and ultimately share the same goals and fears.
It’s not a hard code to crack. You just have to be willing to actually question things and be curious. But there’s a lot of resentment in doing that (displayed here) because part of the media is propagandizing poor people and getting them adopt the same goals and fears as the upper classes. The people in government right now spent decades selling off your jobs and livlihood to cheaper areas of the world. Because it benefited them. One of those places was China. Capitalists gave China everything they needed to become what they are. It was fun when sowing. Now, because of problems in the West, China must become a talking point and scapegoat. The rich don’t like them because they’re closing themselves off from foreign investment and they’re not playing ball with our foreign policy. That is they pose a threat to unite with other countries and close off investment as well. If US companies can’t set up shop in Taiwan, for example, that hurts wealthy people in the US. You don’t have that wealth or investment so that argument won’t work on you. Therefore the problem must be abstracted and layered under a bunch of cultural or moral arguments. So you get stories about how the Chinese are all savage bug people who work like robots to overthrow your way of life. They’re violating your liberal ideals of free speech. They’re detaining Muslims so they’re too racist. They don’t like LGTBT people. They ruin your bitcoin gambling. They kill their people by cooking in sewage oil and their buildings fall down.
This is to get you to share opposition to China so that by the time we work ourselves into a War, you won’t really question why your children are fighting in it. They’ll go die so that US companies can keep pumping out resources from those countries and keep the competition out. All the sentiments about honor and duty and security and freedom are a lie.
when Xi Jinping offers to pay ur rent, its hard to say no
We’ve been around for literally 3 years bro. You’re the new kid here.
Also lemmy was literally partially created by our users. You’re the one coming into our space.
Were you a redditor? If so, you might remember r/chapotraphouse getting banned - they had been quarantined for quite a while before that, so they were ready to migrate when the ban came down. Idk if Hexbear is the first/only place they went or just where most ended up, but it’s definitely the same vibe as the subreddit, with a little bit of discord thrown in with the emotes.
I will admit to being not the most observant person - especially as I’m in the process of switching medical providers right now, so I’m between ADHD prescriptions and definitely not as with it as I could be! - but when I poked my head in over there, I saw fellow anarchists posting, so I had consequently dismissed people saying they were churning out “CCP talking points.” It mostly seems to me they churn out bullying - for everyone to the right of Bernie Sanders (which I mostly approve of, or at least find amusing). And Pig Poop Balls, of course. What did I miss?
Fair assessment. We dunk on Bernie too though.
I mean, he is a centrist. He doesn’t even want to abolish capitalism.
And his views on Israel, yikes
What do you mean? He is like the only senator that mentions Palestinians deserving human dignity.
Well, yeah if you use the rest of the US legislature as a baseline sure I guess he’s not bad
But in absolute terms?
Look, I hate Bernie too, but most of the people complaining about his stance on Israel are claiming in so many words that he’s a “Bad Jew” for not being as zionist as they are.
Maybe, honestly it’s been a while since I looked at it - maybe I’m misremembering.
it’s more his support for the rest of US foreign policy. his views on Palestine are fine.
Bernie is to the right of chester the cheetoh’s cheetah wrt to “Israel” which means it’s the gulag for him.
waaait what on earth did I miss
here’s how Bernie can still win:
Can you believe the Iowa Causcus was just two months ago!
stay in line!
The folks in front of me have been sleeping for like over two years straight but I’m gonna politely wait for them to wake up so I don’t ruin The Democratic Process (but they smelled awful for some reason for the first few months after falling asleep idk what that was all abt
)
Idk if Hexbear is the first/only place they went or just where most ended up
There was a discord server right at the start, but there was drama as there always is with discord and it quickly split into the discord group and the hexbear group basically as soon as the site went up. (this was like a week or two after the ban iirc)
A number of people use both
It was Just the server for a good few months before the lemmy came up right?
but when I poked my head in over there, I saw fellow anarchists posting, so I had consequently dismissed people saying they were churning out “CCP talking points.”
To be fair, our anarchists are tankies too.
We’ve been here for 3 years, before 99% of lemmitors even knew what a Lemmy was. Chapo trap house got banned from reddit, so we made a site here. Our site’s code diverged from og Lemmy so we could add things like pronoun tags, and only recently had been made into a version compatible with federation. We’ve had time to make our own site culture of posting, whereas the rest of lemmitors are fresh off of reddit. Being suspicious of hexbear posting a lot after federation is like being suspicious of water flowing after a dam bursts.
Seriously just click on the profiles of every pisspants liberal complaining about us and the longest they’ve been on the site is usually 2 months.
American tourists rolling in and demanding everything be how they like it.
Maybe sometime last week I noticed nearly every political post had at least one long thread of Hexbear users that do nothing but repeat CCP talking points while waving anyway anything even remotely reliable as Western propaganda.
Just curious, are you old enough to remember the media role in the run up to the Iraq War? The US media spread outright lies on behalf of the military industrial complex, to a degree that made it obvious to anyone watching once things started to go south after the war was well underway. It may not be quite as obvious these days as it was back then, but that kind of media manipulation is still very common. These days, you also have direct social media manipulation on top of that. In my opinion, it’s a terrible idea to accept the media narrative at face value, and you should at least consider other arguments and try to dig into the evidence a little more yourself instead of just saying someone is a shill. I think you’ll start finding the reality might be different than what you were initially led to believe.
Also on the topic of media manipulation, here is a GREAT video that everyone imo should watch: https://youtube.com/watch?v=2BO83Ig-E8E
It was absolutely not obvious at all to Americans back then. Or more accurately, they wanted to believe the lies so they did
73% of Americans were in favor of invading Iraq
Some of us saw right through that shit immediately though
Not sure if I made it clear enough, but I meant it became more obvious once the war started going badly and the weapons of mass destruction had not turned up.
Same thing happened in Vietnam. In fact, public opinion only really changed after the politicians started saying that it was ‘time to scale down US involvement’ or whatever, which only came years after many people in the Whitehouse realised the war was unwinnable. In the meantime, and despite all the famous protests and anti-war marches, the public was pretty happy to follow the official line that America was the good guy and that communism had to be stopped.
You could do an interesting analysis of this phenomenon using Gramsci’s idea of Cultural Hegemony as a framing device.
Yep, I also feel like many people have inserted their own reality of history where all the anti war protests and fraggings were because the Americans wanted to stop killing others
But if you actually read the sentiment from people back then, the seemingly strongest sentiment was to stop the war because too many Americans were coming back in body bags and American soldiers were heavily demoralized from the nightmarish conditions of guerilla warfare against the Vietnamese
They just didn’t want more Americans to die for a reason they’ve never been told about
Great video. Bless Boy Boy and their little cotton socks. The followup is a real one-two punch.
Thanks for posting this. This is another great case that illustrates how western media manipulation happens.
Stalin defeated fascism
