Can we follow the model of the korean DMZ ? 1946 or 1951 boundaries; Israel can pick.
“Ya we’ll totally leave if u guys get rid of ur guns lolololol trust us”
As much as I’d love to believe this, ‘Gaza disarmed’ sounds a lot to me like “We’ll try this exact same thing again next year”.
Next year? It’s more like Russia saying they’ll stop attacking if Ukraine surrenders and accepts being conquered.
It’s basically saying “we will stop the war if you let us exterminate you”.
And we see how that already went when Ukraine gave up their nukes.
Add Libya to the list.
I’m sorry, what were you expecting here?
This is more or less the best cease fire we could think of for the short term:
They demanded the hostages back (guessing most are dead by now).
Gaza disarmed? I don’t even know what that means, but whatever.
What is the magic other term you’re planning to get? A pinky promise to not do it again?
I’m guessing you have no idea what Israel has been doing to Palestine for the last 70 years? Israel has been killing natives and taking their land way before October 7th and the answer isn’t making it harder for Palestinians to defend themselves.
And… what?
That’s your argument for “we should all have a ceasefire”?
You just seem like someone who cares more about being really angry about something than trying to take the next step.
We either have a short-term cease fire, or we don’t and they keep killing random people including civilians, this isn’t multiple choice here.
But no, please, keep festering in your teenage emo rage, I’m sure that’ll fix everything.
Gaza disarmed? I don’t even know what that means, but whatever.
You can’t just “but whatever” that. How Israel defines that term is very important.
How is it to be verified that they are disarmed? How long do they need to remain disarmed for? Presumably, forever.
How do you verify that they stay disarmed?
It sounds like permanent occupation to me.
What is the magic other term you’re planning to get? A pinky promise to not do it again?
My point isn’t whether this is the best possible terms that can be expected. My point is that Israel isn’t acting in good faith, and we (international observers) should all be acutely and actively aware of that fact.
Israel does not have the power to end the war until they end the occupation and give equal rights to the Palestinians.
If they could have, they would have back in 1967. Then as now, there will be no lasting peace without justice.
Don’t forget the three Noes from the Arab’s Khartoum conference: No recognition, no negotiation, no peace.
Israel had been offering permanent peace with borders from 1948 onwards.
We live in the post-Oslo Accords world. And Israel has been building facts on the ground since Oslo that make the two state(*) solution impossible.
(*) Where by “state” we mean an actual state, not some Bantustan.
Sure. The Palestinian refusal to agree to any of the offered two state deal has of course nothing to do with the situation we’re in now.
Yes, some Israeli political movements don’t want a Palestinian state and take as much land as possible. The Palestinian refusal to compromise pragmatically has only enabled them.
Palestinians are for a two state solution, but Israel keeps trying to use the deals to take more land. The latest one involves taking the land that’s on their Egyptian border and making them disarm itself. What kind of state doesn’t have control over its borders and can’t defend itself? These deals are given in bad faith. It’s why they keep taking land, so it’s impossible to have a contiguous state. Israeli officials have admitted this multiple times.
Yeah I think Palestinians are to blame for being occupied by a settler colonial entity that got established through ethnic cleaning, during which they were leveling whole villages, raping, torturing and killing its inhabitants systemically. As a cherry on top they imposed an apartheid regime and are committing genocide as we speak.
The only solution is to decolonize Palestine and establish a new state with equal rights for everyone, with all the existing institutions being disbanded and rebuilt from scratch. Palestinians need to be compensated for the loss of land and the loss of life of their families, Palestinian refugees need to be able to exert their right of return. The German Zionist narrative is over and this conflict won’t end until Palestinians finally received justice. But keep trying to convince people, the world isn’t buying it anymore.
Go as far back as you like, and we’ll be litigating the Islamic conquest from the Roman Empire. This is 2024. Palestine recognized Israel at Oslo. Since there Israel hasn’t offered any deal with the exception of the Camp David disaster. Daniel Levy, an Israeli negotiator at the time has explained was not a genuine attempt at peace, but to impose a conquest. And in any case the Barak government was an exception, a parenthesis from the successive right wing governments.
These right wing governments instead have systematically sliced up Palestine salami slice after salami slice and basically imposed an apartheid regime in greater Israel. This isn’t just some marginal movement, they are in government. Netanyahu has in fact been in government so long that it is basically Israeli state policy.
Well, yea, even if we accept the fucking Times of Israel as an objective source (lol), what the article says is he wasn’t allowed to study the contract he was offered. That shows the Israelis were not negotiating in good faith.
No western government would ever agree to a territorial deal without being able to first study the fucking map. I mean, would you agree to buy a laptop if you weren’t allowed to see the spec? Much less end a decades old major global conflict.
They’ve already flattened Gaza and turned their eyes to the next target.
This week saw two concurrent days of unprecedented attacks on Hezbollah operatives throughout Lebanon, with the explosion of communications devices used by members causing the deaths of dozens and injuries of thousands. Hezbollah has blamed Israel for the attacks and has vowed a response, raising the specter of further escalation in the conflict.
They’re not gonna stop. As long as America keeps supporting them, they’ll keep lashing at at everyone close and causing a new generation of terrorists so they can keep doing it indefinitely.
Fascists can’t ever beat their enemies, or they need to invent new ones. That’s why Bibi is suddenly fine letting Hamas leaders leave. So they can come back later.
They’re not gonna stop.
Israel seems more than happy leaving eachother alone. The problem is Hamas and Hezbollah are never gonna stop. They vowed to never stop until Israel is destroyed. A lot of Lemmings seem to agree with the principle that the bottom line is that all violence against Israel is justified anyway and so is lying about who keeps the violence going.
That’s why the basic situation is that Israel is trying to limit their response to a de facto ceasefire, and Hamas and Hezbollah trying to bait them into war by firing rockets over the border. As Israel got better and better at protecting agains these rockets coming from Gaza, Hamas had to up their game
Worse still, their MO is incredibly transparent. They want to establish a “buffer zone” in southern Lebanon, but Israel’s “buffer zones” are just a way of slowly expanding their borders. The problem is that a buffer zone like the DMZ only works as a buffer zone if you keep your own civilian population from moving in to that buffer zone! Israel lets it’s ‘settlers’ move into what are supposed to be buffer zones like the DMZ. After awhile, the settlements are retroactively recognized and made legal. Now you have civilians in ordinary communities living in what was supposed to be a buffer zone. And since they’re right on the border again, they’re now in range of attack from the angry people whose former land they are now living on.
“Buffer zones” only work if you arrest and/or shoot any of your own people who try and move into them. Otherwise, they’re just a slow-motion conquest via bureaucracy. The same thing has happened in the West Bank. Israel takes Palestinian land around Israeli settlements, declaring them to be security buffer zones. Then they let their settlers move in there. Suddenly they have vulnerable civilians within easy reach of angry Palestinians, so they need to establish a new buffer zone. Rinse and repeat.
It’s slow-motion ethnic cleansing via zoning code and bureaucracy.
It’s been a slow-motion ethnic cleansing for a long time now.
Bibi needs to be in jail, he uses the absolute worst of Israel to protect him from what he deserves.
Hopefully once he’s out of power we can consider doing something, but so long as his cronies are around, it’s always more profitable to bulldoze their way to a Greater Israel rather than actually try to have any peace.
SO for anyone keeping sore at home : Israel is evil fasicsts for agreeing to the cease fire which will keep hamas in power, but also Israel is evil fascists for having invaded gaza trying to topple hamas in the first place.
Sounds like maybe OP thinks Israel is evil fasicsts and is working backwards from that assumption.
The current Israeli government are evil fascists.
Why should he leave, though? Isn’t that his home?
To save his life and end the war. Leaders going into exile is common when wars are lost.
It won’t end the war though. Israel will still have an excuse to oppress Palestinians.
It will end the current Gaza war, not the overall conflict.
Once again, Hamas has the power to accept a deal that offers amnesty for their leaders if they just release the remaining hostages, and hand over power to a civilian governance.
It’s hard to imagine a better offer but Hamas has reportedly already rejected it.
A better offer would also include Israel getting the fuck out of Palestine.
Israel already got the fuck out of the Gaza strip years ago. Look what that got us.
Did they? They controlled its borders, air space, water, power, trash, money, trade, food, etc. They still occupied the space. They had guns pointed into it and would snipe people who walk near the edge or throw things into it. Every now and then soldiers would go in for some reason or another. They had policies to control the number of calories that went in to keep it down to the bare minimum. It was an open air concentration camp, not sovereign territory.
Cool, so literal calls for genocide are fine as long as it’s against the Jews.
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MBFC: Left-Center - Credibility: High - Factual Reporting: High - Israel
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