Fun fact, whether this meme is pro-Israel or pro-Palestine is 100% decided by what date you consider the “start” of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.
The history around Gaza and Israel is long and super complicated. The “they hit me first” gets really fucking dumb after like 10 rounds. That’s why most people in the west don’t support the war, they support leaving people alone. Either the gazans or the Israelites.
War is the ultimate singularity. It’s a black hole that sucks up everyone and everything and there’s literally no positive to it. So if you have a say in it, the only way to cause less tragedy is to stop it.
On that note, fuck the Hamas for attacking Israel at the festival, and fuck Israel for escalating this into another war.
I mean, Isreal invented and funded hamas and gave them weapons. So fuck israel.
Hamas is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. It wasn’t “invented” by Israel. And Israel didn’t fund them, but it’s true that Bibi let Qatar money reach Hamas when he could’ve blocked it.
The belief among some of the ones who supported that, was that better conditions of life in Gaza would prevent them from going to another war - An article about it from 2015Mhhh yes which is why israel systematically blocks aid from entering Gaza and the humanitarian catastrophe and restrictions on aid only got worse over the years. Surely israel tried to help Gaza by instead of letting in food, give money to Hamas. this makes perfect sense now.
NPR is straight up Zionist propaganda.
Hamas was the government of Gaza. You couldn’t get anything in there without it getting through Hamas anyway.
They sure managed to get a lot of weapons and rockets in there, and enough building materials for massive underground tunnels.And your dear Al-Jazeera has an article from 2017 that says Qatari money actually did help Gaza Analysts: Qatar supports Gaza not Hamas
Are they also Zionist propaganda now?They sure managed to get a lot of weapons and rockets in there, and enough building materials for massive underground tunnels.
Yes which why it is obvious the blockade on Gaza was only using the blocking of “smuggled weapons” as an excuse to starve civilians.
You are destroying your own argument.
Your Qatar link is irrelevant. Of course Qatar supports Gaza. However Netanyahu asked Qatar to give cash to Hamas.
Well goddammit, we’ve got a genuine freedom fighter here in our midst, waging war against the (wink wink nudge nudge) ZIONISTS. Are you a member of the legendary 104th Battalion, the Keyboard Snipers? Or are you part of that new 88th Battalion, the Fighting Dogwhistle Luftwaffles, deploying out of your parents basement?
Look at that a Genocide defender saying that criticism of israel is antisemitic.
Circle of hatred.
No matter if it is about a relationship, two political parties or countries. You can only brake out of it,if you commit to not go for the “revenge”.
The history around Gaza and Israel is long and super complicated
It’s not that long and it’s not that complicated, the pro Israel crowd likes to throw this notion around as a thought-terminating cliche.
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Death to war. Life to all children of the Levant.
can i be pro-both, anti-genocide, and think that both of their ruling parties are fucked to shit
I think that much be a popular opinion but WTF is happening there
Hamas’s entire goal is to kill all Jews, and take Israel back for themselves (“river to the sea”).
What do people think is going to happen if Israel just stops? Another Oct. 7th. At what point do people need to address this fact?
EDIT: Some of y’all should read a Qur’an sometime.
Hamas actually got rid of that from its charter. It stopped making claims like that around the early 2000s and actually revamped their entire charter in 2018.
October 7th was the direct result of over a decade of Israeli war on Gaza bombing hospitals, shooting protestors, and blockading them. It’s what happens when terrorists try to moderate and go legitimate but get rebuffed.
And then, the future. Are you really trying to say Hamas has anywhere near the military power of the IDF? That a Hamas led genocide is a realistic thing to worry about? Because that’s ridiculous. Just based on the numbers.
Hamas certainly said it in the past. Israel is doing it now. Who’s right and who’s wrong?
Hamas very clearly states that it does not want to Genocide the Jews.
This is a massive lie. Hamas goal is to get colonizers off their land.
Hamas has never killed a single Jew outside of israel. In fact it doesn’t kill any people that don’t occupy their land.
Yeah I was thinking it was pro Palestine until I read the comments and realized it could be interpreted the other way as well…
Idk if the ambiguity was intentional, but it’s good lol.
Ishmael v Isaac. Got it.
Oh, so you’re just gonna ignore how Sarah treated Hagar and lay it all on Ishmael, huh? :P
Baby mama drama - tale as old as time.
Man, I miss Jerry Springer.
Late 1800s when Zionists started making trouble in Palestine.
1948 was ugly too
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One day? There have been countless atrocities committed against Israel over the last 100 years. Israel has the Iron Dome because rockets have been fired at them routinely. Those rockets are inaccurate; the chances of them hitting military targets and not civilians is low.
Israel is completely justified in wanting to retaliate. Retaliating against civilians is a completely different matter, however. Especially civilians who are completely powerless in almost every sense of the word.
98% of the deaths in the so-called “conflict” have been inflicted by the Israelis against the Palestinians. This is not a complicated issue - one side has all of the money and all of the weapons and all of the international support and has full control over when the “conflict” ends, and they choose to extend it.
That is precisely why I think it’s important not to make exaggerated claims that can easily be refuted. Israel will claim that the calls for them to stop come from liars. The established facts are damning by themselves, so let’s stick to those.
Maybe killing people is the wrong solution.
On one hand I totally agree, but on the other I would like to see billionaires on the guillotine.
This is ultimately the Jedi philosophy. Only use lethal force to defend oneself or others.
If the Oct 7 and ensuring events happened during, say that High Republic, the Jedi would be despatched to buffer the warzone. Then meditate between both sides like access to places of worship and settlement zoning, arrest anyone on both sides committing crimes against the Republic (kidnappers and war criminals) which would in turn please citizens on both sides. Then probably install a small Jedi outpost/temple to act as local peacekeepers. All to prevent more death, which is ultimately one of the main tenants of the Jedi Order.
One could argue Luke’s actions are the result of defense of others needed so direly after years of slaughter and against an indiscriminate killing machine by the Empire that the loss of life, albeit great, was justified.
The whole point of the prequels is that the Jedi were kinda shit and supported the status quo, even as Palpatine took over the Republic and formed it into a highly militarized empire. So yeah the Jedi probably would accomplish little of note for decades while the Palestinian situation got worse and worse.
A just government would have retaliated against Zionists after the Nakba, permanently destroying their ability to wage war and empowering the Palestinian government to prevent a repeat of the tragedy. A just and competent government never would have let zionist terrorists do what they did in the first place, and would have presided over a peaceful transition from colonial to local rule, resulting in a multireligious and multiethnic Palestine.
Tell that to the terrorists…
We’re trying, but they continue to bomb Palestine.
Hey now, they’re only bombing the Gaza part of Palestine. In the West Bank they’re just shooting the people and stealing land slower. And in the rest of Palestine they haven’t needed to do much of either after they terrorized the locals into fleeing back in 1948.
There’s no doubt that Israelis are killing Palestinian people in much larger numbers than Palestinians are killing Israelis. Many people have many views on who is responsible for what, and there are a lot of difficult and complicated discussions that one might have, but for you to forget about all of the Palestinians who lost their lives is just disgraceful.
And vice versa. It’s known as the most complicated political quagmire of centuries. If you’re rooting for strictly one side or the other, you’re probably wrong.
Yes, it’s perfectly reasonable to want the war to stop. Once you start going farther than that…
Don’t allow people to push you to an extreme because you want to view your argument as a team sport.
And? They are killing terrorists that took their own civilians hostage. The Hamas also releases numbers as Palestinia and these numbers cannot be proven at all independently. Shure there is collateral damage and killings, shure its possible to mistake a civilian for a terrorist in the heat of battle, especially because the only visually recognized difference is the gun or bomb. But this isn’t at all targeting civilians on purpose, absolutely not, and thats what they are fighting against. Hamas literally uses their own people as meat shields against attacks and when a compatiby small number of them gets killed they can make first grade propaganda from it.
Yeah, fuck those 4 year old terrorists. They didn’t deserve heads anyways. Those terrorists in graveyards deserved to be dug up. Controlled demolition of universities is necessary because most of the bricks are terrorists. If a handful of terrorists hide in a hospital, the only logical thing to do is bomb the fuck out of the hospital.
Nothing about how the IDF is behaving looks like targeted attacks on Hamas. Military experts everywhere have been telling Israel since the beginning that their tactics would fail and result in mass civilian casualties and a strengthened Hamas. Israel does it anyways because killing civilians is the objective. Destroying homes, hospitals, schools, universities, religious institutions, and even graveyards is the objective. Everything that ties the Palestinian people to their land is being destroyed in a bald faced effort to drive them away. That is genocide, and that is terrorism.
Sources for these claims are absolutely necessary.
And the hospital thing is proven to be false.
And im not going to argue any further with you as you are obviously deep in your terrorism support hole, im not going to get you out of this.
Keep yourself safe and maybe speak with the people that actually have been there.
Why? I don’t see sources for all your bullshit.
For what do you want sources specifically?
Look at any news source. Literally any of them. Israel has repeatedly attached Gaza’s healthcare infrastructure.
No. This is false. This is “statement from the Palestinian authorities” put in articles by aljazeera and they are seen as “credible source” by the people wanting to have the hottest news for clicks. Its by definition fake news. But a little more complex than the fake news the average muricalander is used to.
You Just repeat terrorist propaganda.
I will if I ever meet one.
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Yeah.
member that time the Skywalkers evicted and displaced hundreds of sand people (that’s a bad irony) from their ancestral homes?
Because God told them to?
Definitely not relevant.
Why didn’t we just give the Jewish people fucking Utah or something?
Why didn’t we just give the Jewish people fucking Utah or something?
Anti-Semitism.
“These Jews deserve their own place… pretty fucking far away from us.”
Why didn’t we give the Zionists* Utah.
And it’s because we were antisemitic wanted the Jews out of our countries. They figured Israel could be used both as a way to jettison Jews from the world, and as a way to have a puppet government in the middle East.
Mormons vs. The Jews. Who wins?
The Jews obviously.
Jews vs Scientologists, now that is a tough call.
If we’re talking about the state of Israel, Israel for sure. Their technology and military intelligence is fucking terrifying (thank you for teaching me that, Darknet Diaries pod)
Like what the fuck, zero click iPhone jailbreak spy program how in the even shit
Us?
Why didn’t we just give the Jewish people fucking Utah or something?
The Soviets did that, and it still exists in modern Russia, although it’s mostly Russians now because frankly the zionists didn’t want it.
Never knew about that. Very interesting thank you.
I would really like a source for the claim… Cause… You probably won’t find a real one.
Well, if you had watched the News in the last decades or just simply check for the History of that places down there, you would understand that your post reads like you are 16 and have no fickn idea what you are talking about.
Stick to you manga-memes, the racism you recently post doesnt fit you well.
The shitty muricaland politics are none of my business and Trump is obviously an gigantic problem for the world. You behave like a 16yo that when asked for source for claims gets offended.
And if I remember correctly Luke was wanting to join the Imperial Academy but his uncle kept him on the hydro farm another year.
Luke was just prior to that even a willing participant of the empire. He wanted to be a pilot, if only to get out of Tatooine.
A small but cool detail, Luke even says “I hate the Empire too but there’s nothing I can do about it right now.”
Although I think the Expanded Universe ruins this detail by establishing that “the academy” Luke wanted to join was actually a rebel academy, even though that makes far less sense.
Sometimes writers make something good accidentally, then keep yapping until it contradicts itself, I suppose.
wasn’t it more like he wanted to join the Imperial Academy to simply get trained and then would defect just like all his friends did? I mean that’s how I interpreted it from the EU comics and books, especially the Rogue Squad media. That’s exactly what Biggs did and Luke wanted to follow in his footsteps. That’s what the majority of Rebel pilots did. Either join the Imp Academy and Defect or signup with CorSec and do pretty much the same.
I don’t think I’ve read Rogue Squad, so maybe I’m thinking of something else.
The Rogue Squadron and Wraith Squadron books are pretty good, by far my favorite SW series of novels. The comics are decent, art is a bit hit or miss (it’s surprising how many artists simply couldn’t draw an X-Wing or Tie Fighter) but towards the end of the run it gets a bit “weird” with the Baron Soontir Fel stuff. Darkhorse comics really hung their cap on Fel being the next big Star Wars character.
But both established that Biggs, Porkins, Wedge, Hobbie, Wes, Han Solo, etc defected or escaped the Academy. The Solo movie took a bit of this except changed it with Han being in the army instead. and they canonized it at least for Wedge and Hobbie with SW Rebels. it was established for Biggs in A New Hope at least with the deleted scenes.
Man this post is really some kind of crazy Rorschach test
Two neighbors were fighting over a financial dispute. They couldn’t reach an agreement, so they took their case to the local rabbi. The rabbi heard the first litigant’s case, nodded his head and said, “You’re right.”
The second litigant then stated his case. The rabbi heard him out, nodded again and said, “You’re also right.”
The rabbi’s attendant, who had been standing by this whole time, was justifiably confused. “But, rebbe,” he asked, “how can they both be right?”
The rav thought about this for a moment before responding, “You’re right, too!”
Yeah, I want to interpret it as someone posting not only in support of Palestine, but in warning to Israel that their actions are that of the star wars Empire, and that the rebels did eventually succeed in a massive counterattack
Yeah but in this story the “rebels” want to kill as many Jews as they can, as we saw on October 7.
In this story if there is a successful counter attack, it will be many many more civilians dead.
The rebels aren’t always the good guys, you know. I mean do you support the Rebels in the US Civil War? Sometimes the smaller power is just a group of assholes that want horrible things.
right? my first thought was pro-palestine, then i remembered my local closet trumper is obsessed with Star Wars and views himself as part of the Rebellion/Resistance and the other interpretation became clear. did we learn nothing from the obama-era liberal harry potter fetish?
I’ve always been more worried of the Empire did nothing wrong facet of the Fandom, but I guess there’s people who think they’re rebellion too. Despite the fact that the rebellion is the one with multiple races…
Still, there is an odd commonality of right wing propaganda types using fictional movies, shows, and books as if they are reality.
yeah look what happened with the Matrix. that’s a god damn real head scratcher. series of movies made by two transgender sisters as an homage to Anime and Kung Fu movies was somehow embraced and weaponized by the right, incels, and conspiracy nuts.
the funniest thing to me is that “the red pill” is supposed to represent estrogen
I’m just taking it as someone who loves reminiscing about episode IV
Yeah, cause it’s fiction idiot. You know, the thing where we can have clear cut situations that are entirely black and white. Where one side is entirely evil and the entire one pure good. Reality fucking sucks
Also, it was a long, long time ago.
Yup. Often when “It is a period of civil war” the rebels are horrible people, as we saw in the US civil war. Also Star Wars takes a lot from WWII, a conflict where an Alliance (Allies) defeated an Empire. Actually multiple Empires.
The uniforms of the Star Wars Empire look a lot like the German Empire, and the trench run was like a dam-busting bombing run and Hoth was like Dunkirk. But the allies had significantly more resources than the Empires had in WWII. Also the Allies was the side that built a super weapon.
So… what should we learn from Star Wars? I dunno… fascism is bad even if they might have cool uniforms. That and… pew pew pew voom voom.
That’s the fun part about Palestine. Reality rarely gets as black and white as it is there.
And still our country is cheering for black.
This post could support both sides
Just like in the movies, if you only tell the story from one side. You could ignore the October attack and sympathize with Palestine
That is like sympathizing with the Nazis and the Jews in WW2 at the same time.
Many people sympathized with the Nazis in WW2. Everything was so much more gray black then. But then we found out that "wait Genocide is bad this is actually pretty black and white.’ And so it is with Palestine which is currently under attack by the modern day Nazis.
Okay since you appear to already sympathize with Palestine and can’t seem to understand my post because of it
You could ignore the civilian attacks by the IDF and sympathize with Israel
Yes they have a saying for that.
wir haben es nicht gewußt
While they chant from river to sea. That has been their slogan way before October 7th. They always been a terroristic people. That’s why they allow and voted in a terrorist organization to govern them way before October 7th.
Go back to reddit worldnews dude
Hamas launches rockets from schools and hospitals, kills other Muslims who cooperate with Israel
Has in its founding charter the death of all Jews
Rarely gets as black and white as it is there
🤔
When you lie about everything it becomes gray indeed. Good job.
Which claim was a lie? I’d be happy to provide sources
Sure provide sources Hamas fired rockets from schools during the current Genocide.
Sure. Here’s a Jpost article. The language is right-leaning and incendiary, but the pictures are real.
https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-769701
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-jerusalem-post/
Here’s another source: https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/defense/1671035706-israeli-army-reveals-hamas-rocket-launching-sites-near-3-schools-in-gaza
Here’s a UNRWA source:
To be honest, it’s a bit embarrassing that you’re invested at all in this horrible conflict without even realizing who Hamas is, or what they stand for. Hamas is famous for using civilians as human shields, and it is no secret that they continue to do so.
Here’s a link from Yale University that has Hamas’ founding charter:
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious
The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).
We should not forget to remind every Moslem that when the Jews conquered the Holy City in 1967, they stood on the threshold of the Aqsa Mosque and proclaimed that “Mohammed is dead, and his descendants are all women.”
Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Moslem people. “May the cowards never sleep.”
Keep in mind, I’m not saying that innocent people being bombed by Israel is okay, but don’t pretend that Hamas are freedom fighters. They’d love nothing more than to enact a second Holocaust, and they’re religious fanatics in every sense of the word.
Your UNRWA report says “found in vacant school” not fired so no.
What does the new Hamas charter say? You can’t read the old one so they spelled it out for you. Go search chapter 16.
ur duuuuumb
it’s as if we are in an alternate timeline where Luke immediately went to emperor Palpatine and said your cock is the best I’ve ever seen! let me suck it, and let’s do a commercial together about how the empire will save the galaxy, and that you should donate to his reelection.
So, Hamill’s social media?
But Tatooine had no oil, so that was completely different.
I don’t know why people seem to be mad that a fictional story can accurately represent real life like we don’t already have actual real life examples of the same thing.
Anyone remember Rambo thanking the Mujahideen fighters, which was retracted in future publications.
This movie is dedicated to the brave freedom fighters of the Mujihadeen
There’s also an Orville episode called “Krill”, same idea.
I’m really not sure I understand what point he’s trying to make. First of all he’s equating fiction to reality which is ridiculous at the very least.
But secondly, he took revenge on the people who actually killed his family. As opposed to taking revenge on people that just happened to be in the approximate vicinity of people who killed his family. The Death Star was a military base.
Both Death Stars were literally weapons of mass destruction. You could not choose a more appropriate military target to blow up
I’m really not sure I understand what point he’s trying to make.
The point is that there exists a fundamental dissonance between events as they transpire in fiction and for which the audience is emotionally invested and those same kinds of events as they happen in real life and the audience’s perception of them as they happen in real life.
Star Wars was originally inspired by Lucas’s perspective on the Vietnam War. The Storm Troopers are, in that sense, comparable to American forces killing unarmed Vietnamese farmers. Most Americans who saw Star Wars never made that connection because this is in conflict with the audience’s internalized notion of “America good” and “America’s enemies bad.” As such, in watching and enjoying the story of Star Wars, you are ironically investing yourself into a narrative that inverts your normative ideological position. You can extrapolate this onto the current conflict in Ghaza without much effort.
First of all he’s equating fiction to reality which is ridiculous at the very least.
They are not being “equated” - they are being compared. He’s making an implied comparison between fictional events and real world current events in order to highlight similarities between the two. Specifically, he’s doing a form of comparison called “juxtaposition.” Being able to do this is a very basic element of media literacy.
he took revenge on the people who actually killed his family
Well, no, the specific individuals who killed his family were probably the stormtroopers stationed on Tatooine, whom he never actually interacted with. The specific people onboard the Death Star that were not part of the Empire’s military high command had virtually nothing at all to do with his family’s death.
As opposed to taking revenge on people that just happened to be in the approximate vicinity of people who killed his family. The Death Star was a military base.
The individual in the image literally says that he “immediately joined the armed resistance and literally blew up the enemy base.” Not sure what your point is here, unless you’re implying that you believe that the Palestinians who are fighting against Israel are only attacking indiscriminate civilian targets and not military ones.
Israel is attacking civilians indiscriminately what are you on about
Do you think Israel in this scenario is the Rebel Alliance or the Empire? Because you seem confused.
It works both ways depending on the timescale you apply. You could compare the murder of lukes parents to october 7th. It fits the “bad thing where people die happens, response kills far more” that applies to palestine too. And the public perception, especially of people supporting israel, seems to think the conflict started there.
I saw it that way, but still as a post critical of israel saying “it’s easy to see an atrocity and want revenge at all costs, but that doesn’t make it right”. The “yea” at the end implies to me that what we thought with the fiction was maybe mistaken.
Of course, the death star was a weapon of mass destruction seconds from destroying a planet, so there really isn’t much moral ambiguity there, but not mentioning that is likely deliberate in order to make the comparison work.
Do you have a reading disability
The big difference here is that Vietnam never attacked America.
You’re right. Israel was always there and then the Palestinians just showed up randomly one day and attacked them out of nowhere. There is no decades long history of apartheid and outright oppression of the Palestinian people by the state of Israel and this conflict has no roots in colonialism or ethnostate politics. /s
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“Eviscerated into cinders.” Whut 🤦♂️
I had the same thought. This whole post reeks of the appeal to authority fallacy, simply because the poster (purports to be) a rabbit.
🐇
Fuck that post. It puts even more gasoline into the fire. Break out of the circle of hatred. Stop the war!
The problem is it can be just as easily interpreted either way. It should seem to most of us to say, ‘destroying homes creates more martyrs,’ but I’m sure half the people will interpret it as, ‘unprovoked attack deserves indiscriminate retaliation.’ In that, it does a surprisingly good job of encapsulating how complicated the whole thing is…
That was kind of my issue. Reading this doesn’t make it clear who’s PoV we have here.
I dont see how it is complicated. There were people living on a land. Another people came to steal it and started the violence. Since then it committed far more violence while being armed and supported by another imperial entity that wants those people to keep destabilizing their region to prevent the development of a stable regional power that could leverage its resources and strategic position appropriately.
Oh my, Why we didn’t that of that?
This comment is the essence of liberalism
Vibes and aesthetics garbage instead of any real analysis. Sounding smart is more important than being one.
“A liberal is someone who opposes every war except the current war and supports all civil rights movements except the one that’s going on right now.”
And that we just casually missed the part where he went to the outpost, and killed all the non combatants.
That was his father…
Woops, good point
Nah he definitely went to citys and burned civilians alive. And every time he can he shoots into cities. Dont you know that simple thing truth? This is what the good guys do!
Wait, are we saying he’s the good guy, the Hamas “freedom fighter” or the Israeli protecting their lands? Who is the good guy… and that’s are fucking scary thought that I don’t know.
The good guy is always the “resistance” fighter, isn’t that obvious? Its absolutely necessary to burn civilians alive, behead people and use your own civilians as meat shields as long as the people telling you to stop exist. This should be super obvious!
(/s)
