Stalin is the reason we don’t live under a flag with a swastika under it today. Perhaps you would not even be alive typing this if it weren’t for Stalin. The war industry of the USSR in this time is well understood. The USSR was not ready for a war with Germany, but they could be in a few years time. This is evidenced by the fact that the Nazis made it all the way to Moscow, Leningrad, and Stalingrad, before the growing war industry of the Soviet Union was able to catch up and supercede the Nazis’.
Without the M-R pact, Barbarossa would have begun much more to the east. Perhaps that would have given the Nazis the upper hand enough to have defeated the USSR. With hindsight, the M-R pact was strategically the right decision.
So do we call this Nazi collaboration? That would be narrow-sighted, because they took the correct strategy to beat the Nazis. In Finland’s case, they never had the goal of defeating the Nazis. Even after signing a peace with the USSR, they never turned on the Nazis like other eastern european countries did.
No, Finland’s goals were to take territory, and not just the territory they had lost, they wanted to annex all of Karelia we know. A Finish historian even, Lauri Hannikainen writes:
Finnish forces did not stop at the old border but occupied Eastern (Soviet) Karelia with a desire eventually to annex it. By that measure, Finland joined as Germany’s ally in its war of aggression against the Soviet Union in violation of international law. In their strong reliance on Germany, the Finnish leaders made some very questionable decisions without listening to warnings from Western States about possible negative consequences.
So the viewpoint you are espousing in this thread is historical revisionism even by western academic standards.
You mean what happened when the USSR kicked finlands ass so hard it switched sides? Don’t worry, it happened to lots of once fascist countries in eastern europe at the time.
Finland had just ceded 9% of its territory to end Soviet aggression against it. Germany was useful in getting that territory back.
This is one of those “play stupid games get stupid prizes” things. The Soviet Union invaded a smaller country. Don’t blame Finland when it allied itself with a more powerful country. It’s silly to act the victim when the Soviet Union picked a fight to begin with.
Don’t blame Finland when it allied itself with a more powerful country.
I think I will blame Finland for fighting with the Nazis actually. Don’t tell me what to do.
It’s silly to act the victim when the Soviet Union picked a fight to begin with.
25 million people of the USSR died, that does sort of make them a victim. Taking a piece of Finland that was a part of Russia in 1917, like 20 years earlier, that is to this day recognized by Finland as Russian territory, this justifies that for you?
25 million people of the USSR died, that does sort of make them a victim.
Of Nazi Germany, sure. Not of Finland. Not when the Soviet Union invaded first. It’s also worth noting that
that is to this day recognized by Finland as Russian territory
You say that like they were okay with it. From what I hear, it’s a source of considerable bitterness, especially given that all the Finnish people in the area were forced out.
What a pointless distinction. It’s not like they contributed to Operation Barbarossa or anything and that a number of those 25 million deaths came at the hands of Finish troops.
Finland took soviet territory, Soviets wanted the unjustly occupied territory back. I say its fair. They didn’t invade all of finland.
You say that like they were okay with it. From what I hear, it’s a source of considerable bitterness, especially given that all the Finnish people in the area were forced out.
good for them, its war, they lost. Finland shouldn’t have gone for a greedy land grab.
It’s almost like they just got invaded by the Soviet Union. Yep, checks out.
So? They get to become nazis?
Stalin made a deal to split Poland with the Nazis. Was he a Nazi?
The alternative was the Nazis getting 100% of Poland
It doesn’t change that Stalin was perfect fine being… what do they call it, a Nazi collaborator?
Stalin is the reason we don’t live under a flag with a swastika under it today. Perhaps you would not even be alive typing this if it weren’t for Stalin. The war industry of the USSR in this time is well understood. The USSR was not ready for a war with Germany, but they could be in a few years time. This is evidenced by the fact that the Nazis made it all the way to Moscow, Leningrad, and Stalingrad, before the growing war industry of the Soviet Union was able to catch up and supercede the Nazis’.
Without the M-R pact, Barbarossa would have begun much more to the east. Perhaps that would have given the Nazis the upper hand enough to have defeated the USSR. With hindsight, the M-R pact was strategically the right decision.
So do we call this Nazi collaboration? That would be narrow-sighted, because they took the correct strategy to beat the Nazis. In Finland’s case, they never had the goal of defeating the Nazis. Even after signing a peace with the USSR, they never turned on the Nazis like other eastern european countries did.
No, Finland’s goals were to take territory, and not just the territory they had lost, they wanted to annex all of Karelia we know. A Finish historian even, Lauri Hannikainen writes:
So the viewpoint you are espousing in this thread is historical revisionism even by western academic standards.
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You mean what happened when the USSR kicked finlands ass so hard it switched sides? Don’t worry, it happened to lots of once fascist countries in eastern europe at the time.
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After every other power rejected deals with him
And that justifies it how exactly?
Finland had just ceded 9% of its territory to end Soviet aggression against it. Germany was useful in getting that territory back.
This is one of those “play stupid games get stupid prizes” things. The Soviet Union invaded a smaller country. Don’t blame Finland when it allied itself with a more powerful country. It’s silly to act the victim when the Soviet Union picked a fight to begin with.
I think I will blame Finland for fighting with the Nazis actually. Don’t tell me what to do.
25 million people of the USSR died, that does sort of make them a victim. Taking a piece of Finland that was a part of Russia in 1917, like 20 years earlier, that is to this day recognized by Finland as Russian territory, this justifies that for you?
Of Nazi Germany, sure. Not of Finland. Not when the Soviet Union invaded first. It’s also worth noting that
You say that like they were okay with it. From what I hear, it’s a source of considerable bitterness, especially given that all the Finnish people in the area were forced out.
What a pointless distinction. It’s not like they contributed to Operation Barbarossa or anything and that a number of those 25 million deaths came at the hands of Finish troops.
No, I say that like it is an objective fact.
Finland took soviet territory, Soviets wanted the unjustly occupied territory back. I say its fair. They didn’t invade all of finland.
good for them, its war, they lost. Finland shouldn’t have gone for a greedy land grab.