• masterspace
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    3 days ago

    The idea that putting labels on every bottle is about “letting Canadians know and informing them better”, is flat out horseshit.

    That’s what education campaigns are for. Putting labels on every bottle is about reminding / nagging people every single time they try and enjoy having a drink to try and make them enjoy it less and change their behaviour.

    You can be on board with that or not, but let’s stop lying with the ‘its about education’ comments.

    • saigot
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      16 hours ago

      I think you seriously underestimate the number of people who are completely unreachable with new information unless it is put directly in front of their faces.

      • Pyr_Pressure
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        16 hours ago

        And how many of those people actually read the fine print on labels?

        I’ve seen a ton of empty cigarette boxes over the years (I don’t smoke) but I’ve never bothered actually reading the warnings.

    • Sunshine (she/her)OP
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      2 days ago

      Warning labels do work. Turn the bottle the other way or pour in a glass if you don’t want to see it. The doctor knows more than you do.

      We found that graphic warnings had a statistically significant effect on smoking prevalence and quit attempts. In particular, the warnings decreased the odds of being a smoker (odds ratio [OR] = 0.875; 95% CI = 0.821–0.932) and increased the odds of making a quit attempt (OR = 1.330, CI = 1.187–1.490). Similar results were obtained when we allowed for more time for the warnings to appear in retail outlets.

      https://academic.oup.com/ntr/article/15/3/708/1091051

      Pictorial warning labels proposed by FDA create unfavorable emotional reactions to smoking that predict reduced cigarette use compared to text alone, with even smokers low in self-efficacy exhibiting some reduction. Predictions that low self-efficacy smokers will respond unfavorably to warnings were not supported.

      https://academic.oup.com/abm/article/52/1/53/4737219

      • masterspace
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        2 days ago

        Where did I say that they didn’t work?

        I said that the method of working was through nagging, not education.

      • nesc@lemmy.cafe
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        2 days ago

        They do work, they are not for “education” or “information”. Just another proof that propaganda works on everyone.

        • Sunshine (she/her)OP
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          2 days ago

          Ah yes the evil doctors are spreading propaganda scheming to make you healthier.

          • masterspace
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            2 days ago

            They literally are. The mechanism of warning labels working is not via educating you about something once, and letting you make a decision, it’s about telling you over and over again.

            It works via constant relentless bombardment of the same message over and over, just like propaganda and advertising.

            It is effective, but it is also not effective just through “education” or making people well informed.

          • nesc@lemmy.cafe
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            2 days ago

            Your bias shows, there was nothing in my post about good or evil doctors.

            • n2burns
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              2 days ago

              The irony of complaining about someone else’s bias when your previous comment called information “propaganda”…

              • Revan343
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                21 hours ago

                What do you think ‘propaganda’ means?

              • nesc@lemmy.cafe
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                2 days ago

                It is propaganda in its purest form, again people are trained by propaganda to view it as sonething bad and only done by evil organizations. Of course “scary pictures” work on cigarettes, that’s their intended purpose, and they would work as well on alcohol or whatever would be unacceptable next year. I’m not against and don’t care much about something that happens essentially in a different world.

    • Nate Cox@programming.dev
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      2 days ago

      I need to say that I adore how you have relentlessly asserted that it only counts as education if you’re told once and then never again, because putting a label on the bottle can’t possibly be a form of education.

      • masterspace
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        12 hours ago

        I love you I have relentlessly asserted that the mechanism it’s working through couldn’t possibly be accurately described as nagging.

        Oh what scholars everyone is reading a cigarette label and finding out that cigarettes can give you cancer :O! How much better they understand that cigarettes do, in, fact, give, you, cancer! Suddenly knowing that brand new fact changes everything about their decision making! How better informed are they huh?

        • Nate Cox@programming.dev
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          11 hours ago

          You’re making an (asinine) assertion here that people aren’t changing their minds about smoking based on the warning labels, when even the barest little bit of effort on your part would turn up a wealth of studies demonstrating that the cigarette warnings have been very successful at getting people to quit.

          Like, any effort at all. Just a little bit.

          As an aside:

          I love you…

          Thanks, I guess, but let’s try to stay on topic.

          • masterspace
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            11 hours ago

            You’re making an (asinine) assertion here that people aren’t changing their minds about smoking based on the warning labels,

            No, I’m extremely explicitly not. I’m saying that the mechanism behind that decision is not informing or education, but nagging.

            • Nate Cox@programming.dev
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              11 hours ago

              …is not informing or education, but nagging.

              See, there’s that “it’s not education” thing again.

              Fun fact: repetition is the key to internalizing information. This is like grade-school level stuff here. I bet when the teacher told you that you had to practice the alphabet more than once you threw a fit about them nagging you when you just wanted “education”.

              • masterspace
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                11 hours ago

                Repetition is also the key to propaganda and advertising effectiveness, it’s the reason why you know exactly what the quicker picker up is and probably hate that you do right now.

                You’re literally using the word “education” in the way that China uses it to describe their re-“education” camps for the Uighurs.

                Try and grow the fuck up and learn how to have a nuanced discussion rather than simplifying everything down to good and bad and black and white.

                • Nate Cox@programming.dev
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                  11 hours ago

                  One of us needs to do some growing up for sure; I suspect it’s the one saying that we can’t warn people about cancer because it’s the same as Chinese propaganda; that one-two punch of racism and non sequitur.

                  Keep being awesome man.

                  • masterspace
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                    11 hours ago

                    One of us needs to do some growing up for sure; I suspect it’s the one saying that we can’t warn people about cancer because it’s the same as Chinese propaganda; that one-two punch of racism and non sequitur.

                    Me: points out that propaganda, nagging, and advertising worth through the mechanism of bombarding people with the same message over and over, and is not what we consider education, but is in fact similar to “education camps” which are explicitly distinguished from actual education institutions, since they don’t work through informing people and letting them make their own choice.

                    You: you’re racist and don’t make sense!

                    … ok there bud.