I genuinely think more people need to take a step back and look at themselves, like really look at themselves, before they start shit-talking other people.
It’s fine to not want to be an athlete, or to be bleeding-heart volunteer, but those who do put that effort in are naturally going to be the ones who get the most attention. That’s life.
Unironically what I learned from DBT. “If you want people to be impressed with you, think up something really impressive that you could do and go do that.”
Dragon Ball T?
Dick-and-ball-torture
I’m impressed with you
While I absolutely agree with your reply, what’s a DBT?
At least its short form doesnt share space with Cock and Ball Torture. Telling people when I got into Group CBT was fun xD
Edit: Damn, lots of haters of Cognitive Ball Therapy
will wood reference
All true but the dysfunction starts here with making someone an enemy simply because they turned down your romantic advance.
True, but it’s all part of the same picture.
Anon’s friend assumed this girl would say yes, because he’s obviously the best guy in his whole universe, so he took major offense when she said no (cause she can see what he’s actually like).Introspection would’ve made it a bit more obvious why she rejected him off the bat, even without the other guy getting involved… but narcissists rarely introspect.
Had to have the “Hey man, she’s not interested and she’s trying to spare your feelings” conversation with a dude in my social circle a couple weeks ago. He’s like 30 too so should know better by now. Some people just cannot look at things from any perspective other than their own.
I think that people are so quick to judge others because they’re afraid to look inside themselves. If they did they would see that we are all the same.
I don’t think somebody taking one girl’s refusal that hard would be quick to judge others.
“Remove the log from your eye before you try to remove a twig from your brother’s”
Seems like those biblical people had a really tough time with forestry.
It’s clearly the well-worn “put on your own oxygen mask before assisting others.” Air travel in the middle east was a nightmare.
It is because donkeys are notorious bad pilots, especially during biblical times.
No, this doesn’t help. A specific person you care for can’t be diminished into that general “attention” thing.
So you look at yourself more critically. Then something like what’s described in the post happens, and then you still feel pain, but it’s dull and you can’t locate it, so to say, because in the universe you imagine after such advice you’ll find plenty of reasons you are flawed and nobody should look at you.
And then after some time you understand that the pain is there because really everybody has flaws, “that other guy” included. It’s just that you haven’t been accepted and “that other guy” has been. Somehow your flaws were worse and your advantages not as significant as those of “that other guy”.
And - everybody wants to be accepted, without being the best and the coolest. Just for being a human.
People do need these things, but it’s both. Part of stepping back and introspecting should be learning that you aren’t to everyone’s tastes no matter what you do. You could be an active volunteer athlete and charming as hell and get rejected because your life sounds exhausting to someone you like. That’s not bad, that’s life. Be who you want to be and accept that not everyone wants that person.
Be who you want to be and accept that not everyone wants that person.
That’d be easy when rejected outright. Not when your contacts with the person you like have made you lower your guard and start believing that they may accept you, and then they just … throw you out.
I’m starting to appreciate the traditional way, where you know whom you can meet and possibly marry and whom you can’t. It’s a cultural thing, and some people’s upbringing is just incompatible with mine. I wouldn’t ever do anything like that to a person who’d like me even if I didn’t like them, it’s like throwing out a dog or a cat.
A bit like those societies where lynching is normal - if it’s a crowd doing it, then it’s not a crime. So having grown up in many families, girls and boys think that if for some reason another side seems weak or ill or depressed and in general not fun, that requires no effort on their side, just look for someone more fun, no humanity required. I fail to see how such people are going to create families of their own and have children, though.
You’re positively comparing something you do to lynching. Above all else that’s why you’re single. Well the reason behind it is.
And you’re not describing something desirable. Like looking for someone fun may not result in something great but looking for people you feel good around who want the same thing as you does result in amazing things.
I’m happily married. A lot of people don’t want what I offer, but plenty do. My wife does.
Humanity is irrelevant here. What about the humanity of the other people. Willing association is key. Divorce is sacred
You’re positively comparing something you do to lynching.
No, I’m obviously comparing things acceptable to others “just because I don’t want to bother being kinder and more respectful and having a normal direct conversation” which I’m not doing to lynching.
Also just ascribing wrong meanings to what I say or write or do (and not even trying to clarify those) is one of the main surface reasons I have these problems. At least every one openly expressed by the other side is attributing some position or opinion to me which clearly isn’t the reality.
While there is that principle of “who wants, looks for opportunities, and who doesn’t, looks for excuses”, it’s still unclear for me whether there is some reason people are unwilling to express though I’m literally asking for it, or just explaining themselves is really so hard, so it’s about misunderstandings.
Or maybe girls just see my attempts to clarify things as lack of dignity and weakness, which would be the opposite to what I think.
Above all else that’s why you’re single. Well the reason behind it is.
I mean, independently of that question, above all else you are just illustrating that wrong category of humans I’m talking about.
They too like to interpret my words however they like to justify their behavior, while openly trying to prevent me from clarifying what I meant which would make their interpretation wrong. It’s really sad when someone won’t even criticize you honestly.
And when it’s a girl I care for, I can’t treat her opinion as easily as yours, it becomes some center of existence, heart of humanity for me. That is a problem, yes. Only it alone doesn’t explain everything. There still should be something explaining why that girl wouldn’t break up without almost saying I am defective. It usually does coincide in time with her becoming that center of existence, but why does that create negative vibes or something, I don’t know.
And you’re not describing something desirable. Like looking for someone fun may not result in something great but looking for people you feel good around who want the same thing as you does result in amazing things.
People with cold are not fun, people with broken limbs are not fun, people with food poisoning are not fun. They also may not want the same thing as you. They are actually kinda miserable and uninteresting while still sick. Same for people with depression.
Somehow I don’t just discard friends who got sick. Others usually don’t as well. But somehow with depression it becomes normal for many people.
Humanity is irrelevant here. What about the humanity of the other people. Willing association is key. Divorce is sacred
It’s relevant to what I’m talking about.
I’m talking about people just cutting it down long after you’ve expressed most of what you’d want to express about yourself, down to the core, and then not taking any effort to make it less painful.
Silently and abruptly, looking at you the “oh, it’s so bad that you are so miserable, but just get lost, you’re annoying” way, and when being asked a to give some idea as to why, saying both not very specific and rather unpleasant things like “you should do something to your emotions” and “you have an image of a teenager” and “a shaking leaf taking lots of time for basic social actions”.
I’m not talking about unwillingness, but when you aren’t willing to associate anymore, and that does hurt another person, it would be decent to say some parting words with more meaning than, in short, “you look and behave kinda cute, which is why I started talking to you, but you are really not alpha enough with those emotions for me, so sad you exist”. That is, maybe if I should do something about those emotions, then she herself should also be a bit more tactful and not just go with the hormones and vibes ape path while breaking up?
Divorce is sacred
You’ve used another short sentence with the same meaning as the previous one, as if you have me figured out completely and that reprise in your comment as an artful mean is worth more effort. Since it falls completely off-target, that looks stupid.
If you act in real life in any way similar to this comment… yeah it’s your personality and you’ll keep getting rejected as soon as people see this side of you. Work on positivity. Positivity attracts people, overwhelming negativity like this attitude you are displaying here repulses them. Of course there are exceptions but like it or not, it’s a fact for the majority of people.
No, the “negativity and positivity” folks are the kind I don’t wanna even to argue with. No, thanks.
One my friend, 7 years older than me, still depends on his parents to pay his rent. He talks like you about “negativity” and “positivity”, a lot. It would seem that attracting people is one of the few things he can do. He is my friend regardless of faults and mistakes, but if I were like you, he probably wouldn’t be.
Another my friend blabbers about “negativity and positivity” too, but sometimes posts really long walls of hardly-comprehensible maniacal texts at 2 AM involving lots of emotions. She doesn’t want to visit a psychiatrist. On a brighter side, she’s the only person which talks to me after the rejection just as well as before, and the rejection itself she managed to do right - simply by being human.
This is not a reason. I have a friend with the same amount of “negativity” as myself, that friend is a girl too, though. Helped me through hard times. She does have same problems as I do, but for girls it’s different.
And my sister’s boyfriend is of the “multiple suicide attempts” kind and his relative cheerfulness doesn’t quite seem cheerful.
And my cousins’ dad has PTSD from war, he’s a very cheerful man often, but he doesn’t treat “negativity” as something justifying what you justify.
Other than that, you having a cold or a food poisoning is also unattractive. Same with depression. These things come and go.
It’s cowardly and disgusting to discard people for this reason. I wouldn’t do that, I’m just surprised every time that for others it’s normal.
Also if you do that, then at least be direct and don’t behave as if it’s another’s fault, because that another is going to waste lots of effort and emotion to find out that they’ve done nothing wrong, it’s just that your parents have failed.
EDIT: Yep, didn’t want to argue that and wrote a rant.
If people feel bad being around you, they’re not going to want to be around you. Simple as that. It’s not even a conscious decision, it’s a subconscious mechanism of being part of a social species. It’s not just plain negativity, but moreso festering bitterness. Your comments exude it. And it matches what you said, people don’t “discard” you immediately, but once you get to know them, drop your guard, and show them your bitterness.
You whine that people shouldn’t “discard” you even though you’re so bitter, but that right there is a sign of entitledness. People have one life, why spend it with someone bitter who makes you miserable, instead of someone who makes you feel good and happy and helps you get the most out of the one short life you get? They’re not “discarding” you, it’s not all about you, they are protecting their own right to seek happiness in life. You try to paint it as if it’s all about you, removing their agency, and their rights, it’s just about you, you, you.
You can ignore what I’m saying, or try to paint me as a bad person for saying it, but it is a fact. And I’m not the one complaining about being “discarded.” You’re not stuck, you can change. Or you can just blame me for saying it like you blame everyone else, ignore your own agency and responsibility, and stay miserable. Your choice.
I mean, you start with admitting your failure at reading comprehension. Why should I explore your reply further?
Looking through it diagonally - your choice of words, like “bitter”, “whine” and “entitledness” doesn’t really raise expectations.
The first part is some picture of me painted by your imagination without regard for my comments which admittedly contain a lot of text, often redundant.
The second part is pure demagogy without any essence with some traits of how people bad at motivational rhetoric imagine it.
I mean, however I would feel about various events in my life, I’m happy (literally, this comparison makes me feel much better right now) I’m not you.
If you are reading this expecting to find some answer to your opinions on me, and not a description of you, there will be none.
Just wanted to say I agree with you. I’m not a compatible friend for everyone, but just because I have some issues doesn’t mean that I’m incapable of good friendship. I’ve never had a close friend who was only ever positive of negative-- I don’t think I’ve ever met someone I could classify as either. I love my friends, and because I love them I love to be there with them when things are good in their lives and when things are bad.
There’s nothing wrong with being depressed, having a generally hard life, or just being cynical. Some people might prefer to be surrounded by happy people, and I don’t see a problem with that, but that’s not everyone, nor should it be.
For the record, I have walked away from relationships because the other person treated me poorly-- I just don’t consider “not being happy/positive enough” to fall into that category.
Being accepted is different from being dated though. And dating is not just about evaluating people rationally. For most people, something must click, and there are many factors that you cannot control - like the way your body gives of a special kind of smell that indicates your potencial compatibility based in the type of your immunity. It’s wild stuff and it matters.
Yes, I know.
A bit tired of posting in this thread with nasty emotions from cold because, well, I do have cold now.
That wild stuff clicks very much. FFS, it clicks every bloody time. Smells, moves, tone, appearances, things we discuss.
I mean, for some time. It doesn’t click when you’re sick, don’t sleep well and drink atrocious volumes of tea with sugar without doing any sports, also being tired all the time. Usually, cause, say, the last time it clicked even in these conditions.
Nah, problems start with deep text communication, and the scary thing is that I say all the same things that I say in person. Just emotions she gets while I’m talking IRL are completely different from those she gets from my text, while it’s really the same for me.
Ah, to your comment’s starting line - I didn’t mean being dated by being accepted. You can reject someone still making them feel accepted. I’ve done that a couple of times. Was at some point starting to think it looks differently from the other side, but relatively recently got a rejection of this kind and it is so much better that it doesn’t feel like a catastrophe at all.
Get well soon, vacuumflower!
Thx. Saw recently a piece of good advice of “if you’re not ashamed to think it, you shouldn’t be ashamed to say it” and probably Lemmy was not the place to say it, LOL.
Yeah, sometimes not being ashamed to type it doesn’t bring the results one would hope for.
Or just find a girl more into video games and hanging out than soup kitchen volunteering. Every girl isn’t a perfect fit yknow.
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Exactly. Chances are you’ll find a better fit of a partner if you go do the things you like. Anime convention? Weeb gf. Oddities store/events? Goth gf. This stuff is easy people.
Don’t you know how many terminally online incels there are compared to gamer girls that are into those types?
Most girls you can kind of get into gaming if they aren’t already, by finding the games they enjoy.
But if gaming is the only interest you have, the conversations will quickly come to an end.
My first date with my wife involved her explaining the plot of kingdom hearts to me over 2 hours and 3 bottles of wine.
I appreciate I’m very fortunate, but it does happen, and I would say gaming was basically both of our only interests at the time (besides weed for me, and doctoring for her, but we don’t exactly overlap with those things!).
But you have to save those girls for when you need to spew toxic abusive shit at them for daring to be present in a space you feel you have ownership over. /S
But then you’re competing with far more people for that girls interests than you would with random normie girl.
Random normie girl is looking for partners interested in the same stuff she is. By chasing one you have nothing in common with, not only are you competing with all of the guys who share her interests and hobbies, but you’re putting yourself at a huge disadvantage by actually not sharing her interests and hobbies.
The competition pool is the same. What changes is whether or not she might find you interesting in the first place.
That’s only true if you assume that both sets of interests have similar gender ratios. It’s no secret nerdy hobbies are heavily male dominated, so you will be competing with far more people.
So the solution is to get other hobbies, not bother women in places that you’re in soley to meet women.
If someone calls a person ‘normie’ they are probably an idiot.
Weird comment, normie.
You dumb.
That word is used to express the feeling you get when some better socialized, but not particularly smart or competent or educated or understanding people disrespect your hobbies/expertise/opinions/feelings while you don’t disrespect theirs.
I use it sometimes. More often in periods after once again forcing myself to believe that maybe I shouldn’t look at people this way and maybe I’m wrong, and then getting wounded once again.
Just call em what they are. Ignorant.
Not quite the word. I’m often ignorant too. It’s rather about ignorance coupled with arrogance and habit of underlining one’s better socialization.
So calling someone a normie kinda implies that they are proud of being a normie, they just would use other words to say it.
You say you’re not disrespecting their expertise or opinions…while in the same breath, calling them “not particularly smart or competent or educated.” Even if, from your point of view, those things are factually true, the fact that you describe people that way makes it instantly clear to me why you’re being disrespected. Maybe that makes me a normie, or “better socialized”, but I wouldn’t be surprised if you were (intentionally or not) disrespecting those “normies” first. I’ve grown up around people who talk like you do, and I’ve seen the responses they get for their actions, rightfully so.
Your comment doesn’t make sense, I’m calling them that after the fact, not during the fact, and order of the sequence matters.
EDIT: Which means that you both failed to understand a simple sentiment and yet showed the typical arrogance to talk about “rightfully so”. So yeah, I’d say you are not particularly smart. After you showed that, again. Not before.
You’re the one failing to understand. I’m drawing an inference about how you treated them before and during the interaction you’re complaining about, based on how you’re speaking about them after the fact. I’m saying that the fact that you’re willing to dismiss people as “not particularly smart” after a single interaction is very indicative of you being generally judgemental and rude, traits that will increase the probability that people will be disrespectful to you. This second comment of yours has only further convinced me.
before and during
You have no information at all to draw anything on that.
after a single interaction
On that neither.
is very indicative of you being generally judgemental and rude
Now - yes.
traits that will increase the probability that people will be disrespectful to you
The saddest thing is that people IRL respect me more when I’m in this mood. Including romantic interests. And when I’m respectful, ready to believe in people and so on, it’s different.
That’s the key actually - one doesn’t trust a dog not to eat chocolate left on the table unsupervised. One doesn’t trust friends with known errors not to err this way again. I think this is the root problem, but too lazy to elaborate.
This second comment of yours has only further convinced me.
You’ve assumed too much (see above) to pretend that it was my comment which convinced you of anything. You came with your opinion without any intent to change it. You got what you wanted. That, of course, reduces the value of your comments to virtually zero.
You have no information at all to draw anything on that.
I do. I have the way you’re describing people afterwards. I have a lifetime of experience dealing with people who talk the exact same way about people.
I do. I have the way you’re describing people afterwards.
That quote is self-contradictory.
I have a lifetime of experience dealing with people who talk the exact same way about people.
Your experience isn’t worth anything as an argument. What does it even mean, we all have lifetime experiences of dealing with people.
Your comment looks like it should be smart. But the dude you’re replying to isn’t wrong. You just sound condescending, and of this is how you talk in real life, I get why some people don’t react positively.
This particular thread started about people being incorrect and arrogant to the degree that they, for example, consider correctness less important than socialization, and thus there being a niche for using the word “normies”.
If pointing out confident incorrectness is condescending, then so it is.
If you think people should treat you as being correct when you are incorrect out of wish to be perceived as more sociable - then you are wrong, tone is bearable, incorrectness just makes it waste of time.
You just sound condescending, and of this is how you talk in real life, I get why some people don’t react positively.
Actually they do react positively, because I usually communicate IRL to people who look at the meaning, not the tone, quite often smarter than me. I actually happen to be the polite one. My social problems are in a different dimension.
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I’m a bit of that myself. Not as much about green stuff, global warming etc, but it doesn’t require much specifics to remember that there are “a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together”.
Such an NPC thing to say
Ehh, I mean I don’t hate it as a term. Most of my friends are online, my hobbies mostly are too. Unlike 4channers tho I’m happy with my life, have a good job, etc. Still, I might refer to people who go hiking, watch Marvel movies, and so on as normies, or at least “normal people”.
In my book it’s just a more modern way to express how special you are. When most people that use the term are gamers, or adjacent, which isn’t special anymore by any stretch of the imagination. Like, if you’re someone who is hardcore into niche hobbies like freeclimbing/bouldering or building replicas of famuos buildings out of ice cream, that’s fine. But if you’re sitting at home, playing CS and shitposting on social media, come on dude…
Using normie as a way of feeling special or putting others down is dumb but some people just feel isolated/different.
I feel like most people just use it to refer to people outside their clique/interests. I’m a normie to climbers and unless they love video games they are normies to me. They can’t have an in depth conversation with me about their latest climbing trip and I can’t have an in depth conversation with them about how much I fucking hate dark souls but can’t wait to get home and play it.
If there’s an less obnoxious term you can suggest please do, I get why you hate the term.
yep, checks out. i’m an idiot. 🙂
Yeah they should say muggle instead, amirite?
Anyone who says about another person, “I hope s/he gets abused so that I’m proven correct,” is a gigantic piece of shit who will never find real love. And doesn’t deserve to, until they get huge amounts of therapy and improve as a human.
4channers are surprisingly self aware sometimes.
Unlike most redditors
i think it’s almost worse that way, because they know what they’re doing is wrong but they keep doing it.
What is a normie?
If you don’t know, it’s you
Person not afflicted by porn addiction and not terminally online
Regularly touches grass, not a khhv
Why is society always putting unreasonable expectations on me.
Is not desensitized by the most gruesome images known to man, does not think only in memes
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The Harry Potter books call them muggles
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Yeah… if your first instinct after getting rejected is wishing that whoever rejected you gets abused…
Maaaaybe you’re a piece of shit and they were right to reject you in the first place.
