MOSCOW (AP) — Russian troops launched their anticipated attack on Ukraine on Thursday, as President Vladimir Putin cast aside international condemnation and sanctions, warning other countries that any attempt to interfere would lead to “consequences you have never seen.”
The fact that Ukraine was falling apart all on its own was why I didn’t see the logic in Russia actually invading. They could’ve just sat there and waited for more regions to separate.
That’s perhaps true. But if it is, then you’re right back to being confused as to why he bothered to invade, seeing as he could’ve just sat there and waited for them to separate.
There’s that point in time where the flat-earthers run their properly designed experiment, say to themselves “Gee, that’s funny, it’s almost like the Earth is round”… and 3 seconds later “Naaah! That’s crazy, must be something wrong with our setup”.
You’re experiencing that moment in time, that slight little split second.
I don’t even know why. I get that you’re a Marxist, and if this were 1970-something and we were talking about the USSR, it’d be one thing. The loyalty would make sense. But Putin’s not even close to that. He’s working from a playbook written by that neo-fascist Dugin. It’s pretty fucking bizarre.
You don’t have to accept that the USA and Europe are good guys (hell, even I don’t believe that myself). Just know that some fights are between two or more sets of comparably bad guys.
Not really sure what’s there to be confused about. If Russia calculated that they would get popular support they might’ve decided that there would be little repercussions.
The west already said that NATO wouldn’t engage Russia militarily, and said exactly what sanctions would be placed on Russia. So, Russia knows exactly what the blow back would be. Since the west decided to start sanctions after Russia recognized Donbas republics, there wouldn’t be any tougher response going forward.
Furthermore, there could be a bigger calculation to drag the west into a new cold war that Russia believes it would have an advantage in right now. Western economies are in a dire state after the pandemic, and being dragged into an arms race with Russia and China will certainly not help things. Energy prices in Europe are skyrocketing already, and US will likely double down on more military spending. All of that will directly lead to decline in material conditions in the west. And that will further fuel civil unrest that’s already happening.
You also seem to be under a delusion that I’m supporting Putin here. I’m simply explaining to you what the rationale is. I don’t support the capitalist government in Russia in any way. I think that recognition of Donbas republics was justified given that Ukraine failed to implement Minsk agreements, but I don’t think Russia is in the right invading Ukraine.
That said, the west is largely responsible for this situation. There was every opportunity to work with Russia constructively after USSR collapsed and to treat Russia as an equal partner in a win-win relationship. Instead, the west chose to run a campaign of aggression and to keep expanding NATO military alliance. That’s how we got to where we are today.
Yes, but this don’t help the economy. The problem in Ukraine has existed for more than 8 years with the oppression of the pro-Russian population, which has already cost more than 10,000 deaths.
But this has not interested anyone. But now, with an economy on the ground, both in Russia and in the US, now suddenly Ukraine is moving into the center of interest, the US doing business selling weapons to Ukraine, with the promise of making them members of NATO and Russia taking the relief, providing support to the pro-Russian side.
Putin claiming that the US wants to extend its influence to its borders while Biden says that Russia wants to annex Ukraine.
To take a simile, what would the US say, when Russia proposes to arm Cuba by including them in the Soviet defense? Ah, okay, we already had this.
Meanwhile, the arms industry of both blocs earning a nose of gold and flourishing the economies of both, and the EU between the sword and the wall, as members of the NATO defending interests of EEUU but not the own.
The fact that Ukraine was falling apart all on its own was why I didn’t see the logic in Russia actually invading. They could’ve just sat there and waited for more regions to separate.
Perhaps Putin knows something the rest of us don’t.
Like, I dunno… that more regions didn’t want to separate, and any pretense to the contrary was purely through his own meddling?
Or perhaps he knows that most regions will either support or not resist Russia?
That’s perhaps true. But if it is, then you’re right back to being confused as to why he bothered to invade, seeing as he could’ve just sat there and waited for them to separate.
There’s that point in time where the flat-earthers run their properly designed experiment, say to themselves “Gee, that’s funny, it’s almost like the Earth is round”… and 3 seconds later “Naaah! That’s crazy, must be something wrong with our setup”.
You’re experiencing that moment in time, that slight little split second.
I don’t even know why. I get that you’re a Marxist, and if this were 1970-something and we were talking about the USSR, it’d be one thing. The loyalty would make sense. But Putin’s not even close to that. He’s working from a playbook written by that neo-fascist Dugin. It’s pretty fucking bizarre.
You don’t have to accept that the USA and Europe are good guys (hell, even I don’t believe that myself). Just know that some fights are between two or more sets of comparably bad guys.
Not really sure what’s there to be confused about. If Russia calculated that they would get popular support they might’ve decided that there would be little repercussions.
The west already said that NATO wouldn’t engage Russia militarily, and said exactly what sanctions would be placed on Russia. So, Russia knows exactly what the blow back would be. Since the west decided to start sanctions after Russia recognized Donbas republics, there wouldn’t be any tougher response going forward.
Furthermore, there could be a bigger calculation to drag the west into a new cold war that Russia believes it would have an advantage in right now. Western economies are in a dire state after the pandemic, and being dragged into an arms race with Russia and China will certainly not help things. Energy prices in Europe are skyrocketing already, and US will likely double down on more military spending. All of that will directly lead to decline in material conditions in the west. And that will further fuel civil unrest that’s already happening.
You also seem to be under a delusion that I’m supporting Putin here. I’m simply explaining to you what the rationale is. I don’t support the capitalist government in Russia in any way. I think that recognition of Donbas republics was justified given that Ukraine failed to implement Minsk agreements, but I don’t think Russia is in the right invading Ukraine.
That said, the west is largely responsible for this situation. There was every opportunity to work with Russia constructively after USSR collapsed and to treat Russia as an equal partner in a win-win relationship. Instead, the west chose to run a campaign of aggression and to keep expanding NATO military alliance. That’s how we got to where we are today.
Thanks for stating that clearly : let’s all oppose this horrible aggression of Russia against Ukraine.
I completely agree that Russia’s aggression must be opposed. There isn’t any justification for what Russia did.
Look at that, no talk like that nowadays, huh?
Yes, but this don’t help the economy. The problem in Ukraine has existed for more than 8 years with the oppression of the pro-Russian population, which has already cost more than 10,000 deaths.
But this has not interested anyone. But now, with an economy on the ground, both in Russia and in the US, now suddenly Ukraine is moving into the center of interest, the US doing business selling weapons to Ukraine, with the promise of making them members of NATO and Russia taking the relief, providing support to the pro-Russian side.
Putin claiming that the US wants to extend its influence to its borders while Biden says that Russia wants to annex Ukraine. To take a simile, what would the US say, when Russia proposes to arm Cuba by including them in the Soviet defense? Ah, okay, we already had this.
Meanwhile, the arms industry of both blocs earning a nose of gold and flourishing the economies of both, and the EU between the sword and the wall, as members of the NATO defending interests of EEUU but not the own.
As I said, to hang them by the balls, both.