This is just stupid.
I’m an atheist. A devout atheist.
This is not “secularism”, it’s stupidity.
As atheists, my family celebrates the traditional secular commercial Christmas. We will also happily attend Chanukah celebrations, Kwanzaa celebrations, winter solstice celebrations, Nicholas Day celebrations, Yule celebrations, Festivus celebrations, or whatever else we are invited to attend. Our beliefs are not so delicate that they could collapse just from being exposed to others joyous celebrations. We love participating in other people’s joy.
This sort if fanatical secularism sucks all of the joy out of the season.
Well, that’s just stupid. I was in Scouting for a little over a decade and we participated in many secular events. Secular doesn’t mean atheist, it means not specifically religious. This is like saying they can’t volunteer at the food bank because it’s a secular organization.
Not being a theocracy or even having an official religion, our country itself is secular.
I say take part in any parade you want to. Christmas? Sure. Kwanzaa? You bet. Chanukah? Will there be knishes?
Another atheist here. I don’t like telling other people what to do when they are not harming anybody. Whether association X wants or doesn’t want to celebrate Y is none of my business.
To me, (late 20s/early 30s) Christmas has never been about religion. Sure I got gifts Christmas morning from Santa but in my house “god” wasn’t a thing. It was “Santa”. Christmas is it’s own thing… It’s bringing the family together, doing nice things or giving gifts, and spoiling the shit out of the kids.
Anyway, I’m not religious, and to my knowledge no religion aligns with my believes. However, a HUGE thing for me is ‘live and let live’. basically the same as what you’re saying. As long as you’re not harming anyone, life your best life.
You can tell me “happy Hanukkah” or any other greeting in any other language and as long as it’s used as a greeting, why do I care? Shit, I’ll probably even ask about it if I’m ignorant. “Oh, it’s Hanukkah? Tell me more, what do you do? How do you celebrate?”
I understand that it might seem a step too far, but in a way I’m thankful that someone is pushing back against the whitewashing of Christian holidays as the default.
Christmas is not secular, though in North America (and I’m sure Europe to some extent) we love to try to turn it into a capitalist holiday “for everyone.” The fact that even atheists support it in mostly the same way as practicing Christians shows how effective this is.
Even in our supposedly secular society, Christianity is maintained as the norm by our continuation of their practices upheld at the cultural level. You see it in some areas where specifically Sundays are codified as days of rest, where Christmas and Easter are codified as statutory holidays, where “visible” symbols of religion are banned but Christians can keep on wearing their necklaces under their clothes, where crosses are at times not even seen as religious.
OP, you said that you “would happily attend” other celebrations, but I note that even you say you celebrate Christmas. And while you might go to another holiday event if invited, I’m willing to bet that it’s a rarity and you find it to be something of an interesting learning experience. Because culturally, those holidays are othered.
I’m just so tired of us pretending that we’ve become a secular society while we continue to uphold Christianity in all of these ways. We still have real work to do to unlearn Christianity’s cultural supremacy in the west.
When I lived in Ottawa I was invited to Shabbat dinner at least once a month and loved going. I went for Chanukah every year. My Iranian and Baha’i friends often invited me over for one feast or another and I would always go. I have no more connection to Christianity that I do any religion.
We get together at the time that pegans traditionally celebrated Yule for a meal with family and exchange of gifts. We do December 6 because it’s fun and a pair of travelling German farm hands introduced us. I literally couldn’t possibly care less what believers believe or do unless they are inviting me over for some fun and treats.
I agree with you.
For a moment there I was wondering why the Girl Guides would object to the secularism policy of the Santa Claus Parade.
I thought the parade was excluding the Girl Guides. I was surprised when I read the article.
Eh. It’s a secular celebration of a season by an overtly secular organization. I don’t think it falls under the category religious.
I can see staying away from closed rituals that are solely intended for followers, but, like OP says, this is an open celebration.
I understand what you’re saying, but Christmas is quite literally the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. It very much falls into the “religious” category.
The only thing that it could be besides a Christian holiday is a capitalist holiday. Both of them aren’t great, and should quite frankly be treated as equals if you’re trying to remain neutral.
As an atheist this is fine, if they have a secular policy then they can have a secular policy. It’s none of my business
Sure, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t stupid.
I understand your points, they make a lot of sense. Both sides (if youll allow me to generalize) are often overly sensitive to the religious traditions or lack thereof and we could all do to lighten up on it a little.
However, I personally was raised in a very conservative home and attended a christian educational institution (they call it a school, its more like brainwash camp) and since becoming an atheist I strongly prefer to stay far away from organized religion, especially religious holidays. It cannot be a separated from the religious aspect for my family, it is a constant presence and the major theme for those occasions for them. This perspective makes the major holidays stressful and exhausting for me, as family strife reaches an all time high, and it’s rather difficult during december because the christian holiday is absolutely pervasive. It would be nice if we could separate our society from such strong judeochristian vibes.
I’m sorry to hear about your challenges. Religion is not a part of our holiday celebrations. If you go back far enough, Christmas was actually co-opted from paganism in an effort to convert pegans to Christianity. So maybe we call it a Yule parade and everyone can take part?
