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Years after my R.E. teacher said, “I will never fall lower than into God’s hands,” I finally came up with the retort, “Let’s go on the roof and check.”
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If Christians were ever at any point actually real about following the teachings of their savior they would do what he said, sell their shit and go out into the world teaching God’s love by helping others not preaching at at people about their sin. It’s literally the entire point of his message.
But they don’t and really never have
Well they’re very into fantasies of sending people to hell, which is a major obsession of Jesus.
But really they worship a) a book b) Paul. Jesus is a mascot, nobody gives a shit about the beatitudes, even less about not casting the first stone.
Kind of like Alabama football, yeah there’s an elephant with an A on his shirt, but the actual messiah is Nick Saban.
You spot on about Alabama
I don’t think that’s fair. Certainly some do. They’re not the ones that make the most noise, however.
If you can find me a Christian, any Christian that has sold all their possessions, given the money to the poor, and then lived an austere life of charity I’ll believe it. But I grew up a super devout Christian in the Deep South and lived there for 35 years total. I’ve yet to meet a single person that’s actually doing the religion as defined by its central figure.
I’m not saying every Christian is a raging asshole, that would be an absurd claim there are plenty of decent people that are Christian’s. I’m saying not a one is actually living a Christ-like life even the decent ones aren’t giving everything away like commanded by Jesus himself
I mean, missionaries. My sister was one for over a decade and during those years she owned a backpack with some clothes and toiletries and that was all. She received monetary donations that she used to travel, stayed with families in the towns she visited, etc.
You’re not going to see that in the US (especially the Deep South) or really any developed nation because churches are already established. But you will see it often in developing nations where the “message needs to be spread”.
My sister is annoying as hell with a holier than thou attitude. Or at least to me because every time I try to talk to her the conversation somehow turns to god and after also being raised as a devout Christian, fuck that bullshit.
And remember the Deep South has 2 denominations, evangelical and baptist, and both of those are fucking selfish fire and brimstone denominations.
Fair enough, and good for your sister, and while what she did is admirable I still say the fact that she ever ‘came back’ from doing that means she’s stopped following that command. Not judging her, I get it, but Jesus literally commanded his followers to give up their lives and follow him. Which means it’s not a temporary commitment.
I actually have a few friends that became missionaries and lived off donations. In Italy, because they were baptists(who are evangelical by the way, that’s the particular tradition I was raised in, they are very very into spreading the gospel through missions in the SBC) and they needed to go save the heathen Catholics.
I’m not trying to say your sister is a shitty person or anything. But mission work in my experience is usually a circlejerk where they are more concerned with conversion and preaching than actually helping people.
Particularly from the south I met a man in Haiti which had sold all of his belongings, working for Baptist Global Relief. Worked all day every day building homes for people along side locals, preaching on Sundays. A personal inspiration to me, to this day.
I had another example I knew in Russia but my post was becoming a “wall of text”.
Perhaps you are experiencing a sampling bias by looking in cushy churches?
There are certainly some cushy churches and Christian orgs in my experience, but not exclusively.
And while that guy sounds great, I’m still gonna be skeptical of anyone that spends anytime preaching rather than just living by example as Jesus commanded(‘and I will know you by your fruits’ something to that effect), which he otherwise sounds like he does. Glad you got something positive out of it. And I’m glad he’s helping people
But the fact that those are two extreme anecdotal examples kind of proves my point. It’s exceedingly rare to find anyone in the religion that actually does ‘walk the walk’. The vast majority of Christians have no interest or understanding of doing what was commanded of them. And because their belief alone confers forgiveness they are free to continue living however they wish. It’s all very convenient
No one is living 100% to ideological perfection. It’s a spectrum. Some are a lot closer than others. I’ve definitely met some ascetic non-judgemental types.
As they say, a few bad apples can spoil the whole bunch
99% bad apples and hypocrites can spoil the whole bunch.
Your mistake comes in assuming christians have coherent beliefs. They largely believe what everyone else around them believes. In the US this means they are mostly captured by the grifters of society which are coincidentally the capitalists. Funny how that works.
For the rare exceptions you can point look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_socialism.
I am well-aware that Christianity isn’t self-consistent. This was luckily part of my religious education in school and my edition of the Bible even points out contradictions.
To be honest, the title is only there to feign a discussion, since I didn’t want to be too overtly anti-religious.
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R.E. as in the UU?
RE as in Religious education. I don’t know what “UU” means.
Yeah the Unitarian Universalists also use the term Religious Education for Sunday School.
Then I’ll try another attempt at my answer. “Religious education”, as I use the term, is the class you take from primary school all the way through to your graduation in High School, if your denomination is covered by the school you attend. It’s the default for baptized children in the German state I went to school in. If your denomination is not covered (or you just don’t want R.E.), you can attend a class called “Ethics.” You must attend either your Religious Education class or Ethics.
Relevant Bible passage Matthew 19:21-22:
Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.
Ah I see you’re reading the LSB version.
Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go make sure that you tell the poor that they need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and stop having avocado toast. Being poor is a state of mind and they need to #hussle more.”
That’s from the SSJ (Supply Side Jesus) version.
Revisiting this thread, it’s been about 15 years since I knew what was trendy in Christendom, and your comment got me curious. Have they put out a new translation that’s even more in line with capitalism than the NAS(NewAmerican Standard)?
I’ll have to look into it
There are two type of Christians, one WAY more common than the other:
- Genuinely good people who actually follow the teachings of Christ and are left wing as fuck.
- Liberal fascists who use a bastardized version of Christianity to give themselves moral carte blanche.
Aren’t people on the left generally not religious though?
If you’re taking about the internet La Rouchian “left” then yeah.
So basically new testament vs old testament.
Christians these days only follow Supply Side Jesus. https://imgur.io/gallery/bCqRp
this is great lmao
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I am not even remotely Christian or any other religion, so the following is meant to be nothing more than a thought exercise.
Suppose somebody in the United States took Jesus up on his word and sold all their possessions, gave it all away to the poor, and spent their remaining days helping others.
In the US economic and social environment, how would they even survive?
Reiterate: I am not Christian and I do not support religion of any kind. I’ll add that the foundation of this thought is my general disdain for this late stage capitalism in which we exist.
They’d go to the food bank, soup kitchen, sleep on a tent in the street or a homeless shelter, start a ministry and receive donations. The question though is what if every christian did that, and that’s a very complex economic question.
I was raised with a couple different approaches to Christianity, first the boring going to church every Sunday sitting between my parents and listening to the droning of the pastor, then in my teens introduced to the “exciting” world of evangelicalism. Long story short, there’s so many interpretations and means which people have used the Bible to control and abuse, I can’t support many of the “Christians” or their churches based off of their messages and their actions.
Instead I just live my life best I can with the foundational messages and what I think God really wants of me - to be in service, love, and support others to the best of my ability. I’m a massage therapist that works in hospice. I make a modest living bringing comfort and kindness to others. I also volunteer at a food bank every month. My Jewish boyfriend isn’t religious, but culturally follows many Jewish traditions. Which oddly enough makes his behaviors and lifestyle line up much closer to my own values than any other “Christian” man I’ve dated in my 51 years.
While there may be those who feel called to drop everything and travel to spread the word - you’re right, economically it wouldn’t fly. If I did that, ultimately my welfare would be reliant on creating a burden for others. As long as I can continue to provide for myself, I can use any additional resources and time I have to help and support others.
I’ve thought of that in philosophy as well. I once pointed out to a professor that it was a mathematical impossibility for every person to be completely altruistic. He mostly stopped speaking to me for the remainder of the semester.
I’m not well-versed in philosophy, so I don’t know what’s commonly defined as ‘altruism.’ If you define it as ‘exclusively working for or giving to another person’, then you’re right. But what if we defined it as ‘exclusively working for or giving to the commonwealth’?
I think the plan is to not just distribute your wealth to specific individuals, but to a broad spectrum of soci- oh, wait, that’s socialism, which is fine.
Would it matter? If they died living well according to Jesus’s teachings they’d be rewarded in heaven. Their mortal death would be inconsequential.
That said, they could probably survive as many homeless do through donations and begging.
That’s the thing, in theory they’re playing for the ultimate stakes, the greatest possible reward.
Clearly almost none of them actually believe that.
how would they even survive
Taxes, money, and life on earth is irrelevant for christians. That’s the whole point, it’s written all over the bible.
Google Franciscans
If they do as the bible says and it isn’t all a big grift, God should bless them with the means to live.
Depends on what their actual beliefs are. If they actually believe the stuff Jesus said, yeah, I think we really would be. If they cherry pick crazy shit out of books like Leviticus, no, they are clearly insane or just shitty.
Asceticism has never been much of a thing in Christianity.
Eh, it’s out there. By its nature, it’s not something that tends to make itself well known.
Pope Celestine V was just a guy living in a cave. The Papal elections were dragging out, and he sent a letter to the council saying divine vengeance would come down if they didn’t make a decision soon. So they elected him.
He sucked at the job, because pope’s need to know politics and administration just as much as religious matters. Living in a cave doesn’t prepare you for that. He’s one of the few pope’s who resigned.
Anyone who says that shit probably doesn’t have anything you want.
Christian here……my life was upside down until someone gave me this prayer on a small card to read. My life was a constant struggle and one night alone I just had it, and looked at this card and read it to myself, something about giving yourself to the Lord asking him to guide and help me. I put my full trust in God……and he’s never let me down. After reading the prayer things just started going my way for once. landed a great job, some money came my way and i was able to buy a home. I really don’t even worry about things anymore it’s like life on auto pilot lol. Be good to others and help those in need and you’ll be taken care of. At no point did I ever have to give all of my belongings away lol. Believe in God, because he believes in you!
