Are there not already laws about being reckless in public areas? Why are we not enforcing those? Why do we need new specific ones about bikes?
Not that I’m arguing the merits of your argument. But there is a ton of degens from upstate who are buying super powerful ones from the various cheap China sites. And are a legit menace in New Jersey.
I think this regulation wouldn’t even be considered if there wasn’t people going 60 in a 25 around there.
Again you’re correct that they are obviously not enforcing laws already on the book. But I think a large portion of the pedestrian population are in support of this cause of those idiots.
I’m not even required to insure my motorcycle, these laws are a bullshit money grab
Where do you live that you’re not required to insure a motorcycle??? You should probably be required to insure it.
Florida lol
Of course, fucking Florida.
BS.
Murphy pointed to several recent fatal crashes involving e-bikes as the motivation behind the law. He also pointed to a variety of cases that involved people using shoes to walk places, and encouraged the committee explore similar insurance and licensure to use shoes.
The committee attempted to explain that the most prominent commonality in those crashes was cars, but he had already stuffed his fingers in his ears.
Main issue for me is that this gives cops a valid reason to stop and harass cyclists.
I do not live in an urban area, it’s a suburban sprawl, and I already get stopped and harassed by the cops for biking on roads. I’m properly lit up and cautious.
They haven’t done anything yet, because they can’t, but that doesn’t stop them or the drivers from reporting me either.
Getting rid of the three class system was a galaxy brain move, lol.
Have fun with emotos on shared use trails, instead of gentle class I-3 bikes doing 15.
The laws aren’t really harsh, they’re just catching up with new tech. In my area there are tons of 10-15 year olds riding the motocross style e bikes, which isn’t a problem, except that they go like 40+ mph in residential areas with no helmets, and they blow through stop signs all the time. Matter of time before one of those kids get veggied
The laws are harsh when they treat a pedal assisted ebike that your grandma can use to what is basically a motorbike, but sold as an “e-bike”.
The real problem is motorbikes being sold as e-bikes (which can also come with deceptive advertising).
Real e-bikes that can’t go 40mph shouldn’t be effected, but it looks like they are blanket banning them.
Yeah, the fact this would affect my class 1 ebike really pisses me off.
100% whoever proposed this law doesn’t see the full ramifications it will have (most likely deepended reliance on cars as less people use their ebikes for small trips and hurting poorer people).
most likely deepended reliance on cars
They know exactly what they are doing. Never underestimate the pro-car bullshit American politicians will pull.
Blame the people that illegally modify their bikes.
Why not blame the legislators who are passing dumb laws?
Because there is a need to control the morons. This is how all laws are started. Same reason speeding tickets are a thing, because people can’t follow the law.
Same reason speeding tickets are a thing
I mean, you are sort of making my point for me. We penalize people for speeding, when they are operating a vehicle that has the capacity to speed. We don’t require license, registration, and insurance for a 10 year old to drive a go cart around their neighborhood - even if we can imagine a 30 year old modifying it to reach highway speeds.
We don’t “need” to have these poorly written laws because of the morons. We need intelligently written laws that will reign in the morons while still allowing new, sensible mobility options to people who want a cheaper and greener way to get around. When we already have the option of intelligently written laws (which other places have adopted and which are already fairly standardized), and then we get poorly written laws, the fault lies with poorly informed (or possibly corrupt) legislators.
Hope you are helping to do this in your area!
There’s a kid in my neighborhood who rides a pedal assist ebike like 30 mph without a helmet all the time. Kid’s gonna get brained one of these days.
This viewpoint is exactly how this law got passed.
No consideration for the electric bikes that either only assist when pedalling, nor throttle controlled bikes that only get to 15-20mph.
Imagine if the laws surrounding atv’s were changed to include ‘anything with four wheels that doesn’t operate primarily on a roadway’, and now someone in an electric wheelchair needs insurance and licencing to get around ‘legally’.
Imagine if the laws surrounding atv’s were changed to include ‘anything with four wheels that doesn’t operate primarily on a roadway’, and now someone in an electric wheelchair needs insurance and licencing to get around ‘legally’.
dont give em ideas
Yeah, but those things got nothing to do with e-bikes. They’re electric motorcycles with added pedals to pass as bicycles legally
to pass as bicycles legally
Not even legally if you legally define ebikes as only being within the 3-class system. They only pass as ebikes at a glance if they’re going slow enough at the time you look or can’t measure their speed (granted, a decent cyclist can get those well past the 20mph cap were you get assistance even on flat paths and downhill gravity will do that with no assistance from the bike or rider, so it becomes harder to prove without just testing it out).
Creating rules for Formula 1 cars that also apply to a Toyota Corolla might not be the best idea.
Am I missing something, or did Murphy sign this on his last day in office?
It’s New Jersey for anyone wondering. Really didn’t expect them of all places to do it.
For some context
A ebike is a motor vehicle. Most of them exceed the power output of motorcycle and scooters.
Manufacturers that comply with the class 1/2/3 classifications mostly voluntarily limit ebike power to 750W. I don’t know if there are laws regulating ebike power output - the existing laws state limits on motor-assisted speed, not power, with caps at 20mph for class 1 & 2, and 28mph for class 3. But I see that California is working on mandating a 750W max.
In reply you talked about ebikes exceeding 1650W, and going 150mph. Those are not legal ebikes. Those are the e-motos that others in this thread are talking about - vehicles that are regulated like motorcycles in most US states. They have pedals so they can pass as ebikes, and states haven’t really figured out enforcement yet. The vehicles that that people in this thread are concerned should not require licensing and insurance are proper ebikes, which are limited to 20 or 28mph (or 15mph in NYC).
Most of them exceed the power output of motorcycle
Are you high?
Define a motorcycle or scooter? The legal limit in most states for a street legal unlicensed gas bike is 47cc which is usually stated as 2.2 horse power or around 1650 watts max. A lot of these ebikes exceed that and it isn’t a apples to apples comparison in term of total power. Most 47 cc bike conversions are lucky to hit 30 mph. Almost all the ebikes I’ve tried could go faster than that at 1000 watts. Someone got arrested in florida recently for going 150mph on ebike. Its well past the time they were licensed and regulated for the safety of us all.
So no I’m not high. I always enjoy someone not bothering to give me any numbers when disagreeing with my post.
You said motorcycle, and you said most ebikes sold exceed the power output of them. Not that they exceed the power limit of the legal classification - you said they exceed the power output of a motorcycle. I could be unfair and say you were talking about a Harley, but I can assume you were talking about the low end. And about the smallest displacement motorcycle I normally see being sold are 125cc dirt bikes, which can still hit 50mph. A sport bike of the same displacement can hit 80.
In contrast, here is a market research firm’s analysis of the ebike market, which states:
By Class, the class 1 segment generated the major market share in 2025.
By Speed, Up to 25 km/h segment held the largest market share in 2025.So no, most ebikes sold are not capable of reaching actual motorcycle speeds.
I stated minimums. Anything beyond 47cc for gas or its electric equivalent which is around 1500 to 1650 watts. Most ebikes sold now are least in the 2000 watt range and they exceed the minimum power of the current laws on gas engines.
I don’t know anything about them beyond what I’ve experienced and I’ve been around a quite few at this point Some of them in the 2000 watt range went 50mph. I guess its possible they were all modified but I’m pretty sure this is one of those cases where industry specs areunderstated. I saw one guy with a 4000 watt ebike hitting a hundred. All called ebikes all capable of causing serious injury. All taking up the space of motorcycles.
I can see you see things differently from me. I don’t care. I’ve seen idiots on these things endangering others and its time for them to be regulated as motor vehicles.
Most ebikes sold now are least in the 2000 watt range and they exceed the minimum power of the current laws on gas engines.
Where the heck are you finding those? Mine is 850w and it’s a heavy duty ebike that can carry 2-3 people. The ones at the local shop look like they’re under 500w. If someone’s putting a 2000w motor in one and trying to pass it off as a bike, then they’re breaking laws that already exist.
You have a motorized contraption that can handle three people and don’t feel it should be treated like a motor vehicle?
It’s heavy and requires me to pedal it. The only way I break 20mph, something doable on flat ground on a normal bike, is by starting on a good hill.
You can do the same on a skateboard or skis. Going to require licensing and insurance for those too?
You seem to be confusing class 1 and 3 e-bikes with electric motorcycles.
Cargo bikes are a great way to transport people - especially kids! For a lot of families it’s important for a parent to be able to get two kids onto the bike. But they aren’t speed demons. It’s not cargo bikes that are endangering people on the streets.
I have a cargo bike that I can get two kids on that has two wheels, and is close to the wheelbase of a typical bike: 135 cm / 53 in. Like most cargo ebikes it’s class 1, so speed limited to 20mph assisted. The extra powerful motor is for getting the thing up a hill. It’s about three times the weight of an un-motorized bike. It’s not that big, not crazy heavy, and not very fast.
I stated minimums.
Where?
A ebike is a motor vehicle. Most of them exceed the power output of motorcycle and scooters.
…
Most ebikes sold now are least in the 2000 watt range
I provided a source that says the opposite.
I don’t know anything about them beyond what I’ve experienced
I always enjoy someone not bothering to give me any numbers when disagreeing with my post.
I did. Now explain why my source is wrong and provide a more accurate source other than “in my wildly selection-biased experience…”
I’ve seen idiots on these things endangering others and its time for them to be regulated as motor vehicles.
I agree. Two wheeled motor vehicles which can hit the same top speeds as motorcycles and scooters should be regulated as motorcycles and scooters. But those which can’t (which according to the source I provided above, is most of them) should not be regulated, since such regulation would reduce adoption of this extremely economically and environmentally beneficial alternative to personal automobiles.
There is no way I’m going back through this. I will answer the first one though just so you know you know your are not comprehending what I’m saying. Most likely you just dont like the answer.
The legal minimum for a gas powered bike to to not require licensing in my state and most US states is 47cc displacement. These engines generate on average 2.2 horse power which is equal to (let me get the exact number so you don’t nit pick) 1640.5 watts. Any ebike over this wattage is a motorcycle under the law. A motorcycle not a ebike.
Now go away. You lost and I’m tired of you.
Now go away. You lost and I’m tired of you.
Fucking eMotos are a scourge on this Earth. Along with ignorant politicians.
I think emotos are great! They look like tons of fun, and I look forward to buying one when they hit the used market en-mass with a price drop.
And when that happens, I also hope that the government will have figured their shit out, and I’ll be required to register it and ride it as a motorcycle.
I mean the e-motos that are intentionally being marketed as “ebikes”. The ones with 3kW and pedals.
So are cars my dude.
These high power e-motos are being sold as e-bikes, so the legislators are applying their stupid ass law planned for e-motos to slow pedal-assisted e-bikes. That’s just plain idiotic
Maybe it’s time they make a distinction between the two. Like an electric car isn’t a go kart.
There was already classification system, but these idiots decided to lump them all together
The requirements they’re putting on e-bikes already applied to e-motos. In most states bikes that don’t follow the class 1/2/3 restrictions are regulated like motorcycles.
The problem is too many people don’t know the distinction, including some people buying the bikes, and many people who are concerned about dangers of e-motos. Manufacturers just want to sell bikes, and compete with each other on speed and power, and so are not incentivized to make the distinction clear. They also want to make sales to people who don’t want to follow the rules, so there’s incentive to leave plausible deniability.
So it’s lack of regulation? You know how cars have speed limiters? Maybe they need to apply the same to the various types of e-bikes.
Bicycle? Limit to 20km/h.
E-scooter? 60km/h and they can’t use bike lanes or highways.
E-moto? 200km/h limit, can’t use a bike lane.
Yeah, speed limits seem like a reasonable way to catch people who are not in compliance. If a bike is going faster than 30mph, and that’s in a bike lane or on a trail instead of on a road, or they don’t have a license plate, that could be cause to pull someone over. It is tricky because the 28mph limit for class 3 ebikes (in the US) is an assisted limit, and a strong cyclist might be able to go faster than that pedaling unassisted.
20km/h is the assisted limit in Europe (I think), but that limit is too low for a bike lane speed limit. Plenty of unassisted cyclists go over 30km/h.
People complying with the law already have speed limiters built into the bikes. But yes, it’s a method to spot misbehavers.
The creator of the Youtube channel Berm Peak suggested that unregulated ebikes should not be allowed to have throttles, which would eliminate class 2 ebikes. That would make it much easier to spot problem riders, because they typically use a throttle instead of pedaling. That’s also how Europe regulates ebikes (I think). You’d want some way for people with accessibility needs to get an exemption. I’ve heard throttles are nice for getting started from a stop, especially with a heavy load, or going uphill. But I’ve noticed that California law already makes a distinction between a throttle and a “start assist”, and maybe a start assist could cover that use case.
They already do this. Or - the law doesn’t impose regulations on manufacturers, but it applies different laws to different classifications of vehicle, which are defined by metrics like top speed. So if a manufacturer wants their product to fit in one classification or another, they must put on speed limiters. Or at least, this is the way the law works in some places, and these laws are fairly standard, as they have been promoted by ebike advocacy groups for years who feared exactly the sort of heavy-handed regulation we are seeing in this post.
There are, unfortunately, a few problems.
First is public education. Most people buying any of these products don’t know which classification they are buying, nor that the classifications exist at all, or that different laws apply to different classifications. Governments should take on the responsibility of informing the public about their potential purchases, and sellers should be required to clearly display a vehicles classification when selling in so consumers can make an informed choice.
Second is aftermarket modifications. While this will almost certainly remain the domain of niche hobbyists, the government should make it clear that if you do modify your vehicle, then it will be considered as part of a new class if it meets those standards and will have to follow those laws.
Third is infrastructure. Infrastructure for different classifications should be built differently to accomodate its preferred classification and exclude others. We already know how to do this with cars, and we can apply the same techniques to high-powered emotos.
E-bikes already have these in classes 1, 2, and 3. Everything else is not classified as an electric bicycle.
Also true.
