Define a motorcycle or scooter? The legal limit in most states for a street legal unlicensed gas bike is 47cc which is usually stated as 2.2 horse power or around 1650 watts max. A lot of these ebikes exceed that and it isn’t a apples to apples comparison in term of total power. Most 47 cc bike conversions are lucky to hit 30 mph. Almost all the ebikes I’ve tried could go faster than that at 1000 watts. Someone got arrested in florida recently for going 150mph on ebike. Its well past the time they were licensed and regulated for the safety of us all.
So no I’m not high. I always enjoy someone not bothering to give me any numbers when disagreeing with my post.
You said motorcycle, and you said most ebikes sold exceed the power output of them. Not that they exceed the power limit of the legal classification - you said they exceed the power output of a motorcycle. I could be unfair and say you were talking about a Harley, but I can assume you were talking about the low end. And about the smallest displacement motorcycle I normally see being sold are 125cc dirt bikes, which can still hit 50mph. A sport bike of the same displacement can hit 80.
In contrast, here is a market research firm’s analysis of the ebike market, which states:
By Class, the class 1 segment generated the major market share in 2025.
By Speed, Up to 25 km/h segment held the largest market share in 2025.
So no, most ebikes sold are not capable of reaching actual motorcycle speeds.
I stated minimums. Anything beyond 47cc for gas or its electric equivalent which is around 1500 to 1650 watts. Most ebikes sold now are least in the 2000 watt range and they exceed the minimum power of the current laws on gas engines.
I don’t know anything about them beyond what I’ve experienced and I’ve been around a quite few at this point Some of them in the 2000 watt range went 50mph. I guess its possible they were all modified but I’m pretty sure this is one of those cases where industry specs areunderstated. I saw one guy with a 4000 watt ebike hitting a hundred. All called ebikes all capable of causing serious injury. All taking up the space of motorcycles.
I can see you see things differently from me. I don’t care. I’ve seen idiots on these things endangering others and its time for them to be regulated as motor vehicles.
Most ebikes sold now are least in the 2000 watt range and they exceed the minimum power of the current laws on gas engines.
Where the heck are you finding those? Mine is 850w and it’s a heavy duty ebike that can carry 2-3 people. The ones at the local shop look like they’re under 500w. If someone’s putting a 2000w motor in one and trying to pass it off as a bike, then they’re breaking laws that already exist.
If people were skiing on public roads and sidewalks, yeah.
But skiers aren’t allowed on public roads and sidewalks. They’re confined to semi-private areas which have rules and patrols and if you don’t follow the rules you get kicked out.
Cargo bikes are a great way to transport people - especially kids! For a lot of families it’s important for a parent to be able to get two kids onto the bike. But they aren’t speed demons. It’s not cargo bikes that are endangering people on the streets.
I have a cargo bike that I can get two kids on that has two wheels, and is close to the wheelbase of a typical bike: 135 cm / 53 in. Like most cargo ebikes it’s class 1, so speed limited to 20mph assisted. The extra powerful motor is for getting the thing up a hill. It’s about three times the weight of an un-motorized bike. It’s not that big, not crazy heavy, and not very fast.
I don’t understand the resistance to licensing, insurance, and safety laws.
I own a motorcycle, a road-legal scooter, and several bicycles. E-bikes are very dangerous to riders and pedestrians and will be regulated one way or another. Especially how people ride them at 30+ mph on shared bike/foot paths and through crosswalks.
Getting a motorcycle endorsement wasn’t some epic struggle and frankly weeds out some of the yahoos. A weekend, a couple hundred bucks, and a trip to the DMV is all it takes.
Getting on board with e-bike regulation now will guide it in a beneficial direction.
If it’s going 30+ mph on a path or a crosswalk then it’s not a regulation-compliant e-bike. You might be seeing e-motos, and mentally categorizing them as e-bikes. We all want extra requirements on vehicles that go 30+ mph.
E-bikes are regulated. They are required to max out at 20 mph, or 28 mph. (Where I live in California the class 3 28 mph bikes are not allowed on mixed use trails, and are only allowed for ages 16 and up.) We are on board with regulation exactly because we want it to go in a beneficial direction. I don’t think requiring a driver’s license and insurance, and cutting out young teenagers is a beneficial direction. No, we don’t want dangerous vehicles zooming around without accountability. That’s why e-bike advocates came up with the 20 mph limit in the first place!
We don’t want restrictions on bikes, because bikes get people outside, and reduce dependence on cars. E-bikes are bikes that work in places with hills, or in situations where long distances make unassisted cycling prohibitive for people who are not athletes.
One more note I’ll add about cargo bikes is why I don’t think of them as motor vehicles: everything you can do on a cargo e-bike you can do on a non-motorized bike - on flat ground. A cargo e-bike is a cargo bike that works on hills.
There are two groups who are hit hard by licensing and insurance requirements: people with low income, and kids.
People with low income will struggle with any additional cost. A couple hundred bucks, insurance - even if it won’t cost very much from some people’s perspective - is a burden. E-bikes can be a livelihood, like for delivery drivers in cities. Even if it’s not a livelihood, everyone needs transportation.
The New Jersey law flat-out prohibits kids under 15 years old from riding e-bikes. Kids 15 or 16 now need a motorized bike license. Kids are not getting out or socializing enough these days. E-bikes help change that. My 14-year-old rides a class 1 e-bike to school. Before getting that bike he spent most of his time on weekends at home, mostly in front of a screen. We live in a car-dependent society where everything is miles apart. Public transit in my town is crap. There are big hills that make it impractical for him to get home on an unassisted bike. My kid could only go places when my wife or I had time to drive him. But since getting the bike he goes out on the weekend, and visits friends who live a few miles away. They organize nerf battles. He’s much happier! And no, he’s not going more than 20 mph on that bike. With the NJ law there would have been two years of missing out on those benefits, and then an extra licensing and insurance process after that which is going to reduce the number of kids getting outside. Fewer parents are going to set kids up with bikes if there are extra bureaucratic steps, and if it comes with a recurring insurance cost.
A ebike is a motor vehicle. Most of them exceed the power output of motorcycle and scooters.
…
Most ebikes sold now are least in the 2000 watt range
I provided a source that says the opposite.
I don’t know anything about them beyond what I’ve experienced
I always enjoy someone not bothering to give me any numbers when disagreeing with my post.
I did. Now explain why my source is wrong and provide a more accurate source other than “in my wildly selection-biased experience…”
I’ve seen idiots on these things endangering others and its time for them to be regulated as motor vehicles.
I agree. Two wheeled motor vehicles which can hit the same top speeds as motorcycles and scooters should be regulated as motorcycles and scooters. But those which can’t (which according to the source I provided above, is most of them) should not be regulated, since such regulation would reduce adoption of this extremely economically and environmentally beneficial alternative to personal automobiles.
There is no way I’m going back through this. I will answer the first one though just so you know you know your are not comprehending what I’m saying. Most likely you just dont like the answer.
The legal minimum for a gas powered bike to to not require licensing in my state and most US states is 47cc displacement. These engines generate on average 2.2 horse power which is equal to (let me get the exact number so you don’t nit pick) 1640.5 watts. Any ebike over this wattage is a motorcycle under the law. A motorcycle not a ebike.
Are you high?
Define a motorcycle or scooter? The legal limit in most states for a street legal unlicensed gas bike is 47cc which is usually stated as 2.2 horse power or around 1650 watts max. A lot of these ebikes exceed that and it isn’t a apples to apples comparison in term of total power. Most 47 cc bike conversions are lucky to hit 30 mph. Almost all the ebikes I’ve tried could go faster than that at 1000 watts. Someone got arrested in florida recently for going 150mph on ebike. Its well past the time they were licensed and regulated for the safety of us all.
So no I’m not high. I always enjoy someone not bothering to give me any numbers when disagreeing with my post.
You said motorcycle, and you said most ebikes sold exceed the power output of them. Not that they exceed the power limit of the legal classification - you said they exceed the power output of a motorcycle. I could be unfair and say you were talking about a Harley, but I can assume you were talking about the low end. And about the smallest displacement motorcycle I normally see being sold are 125cc dirt bikes, which can still hit 50mph. A sport bike of the same displacement can hit 80.
In contrast, here is a market research firm’s analysis of the ebike market, which states:
So no, most ebikes sold are not capable of reaching actual motorcycle speeds.
I stated minimums. Anything beyond 47cc for gas or its electric equivalent which is around 1500 to 1650 watts. Most ebikes sold now are least in the 2000 watt range and they exceed the minimum power of the current laws on gas engines.
I don’t know anything about them beyond what I’ve experienced and I’ve been around a quite few at this point Some of them in the 2000 watt range went 50mph. I guess its possible they were all modified but I’m pretty sure this is one of those cases where industry specs areunderstated. I saw one guy with a 4000 watt ebike hitting a hundred. All called ebikes all capable of causing serious injury. All taking up the space of motorcycles.
I can see you see things differently from me. I don’t care. I’ve seen idiots on these things endangering others and its time for them to be regulated as motor vehicles.
Where the heck are you finding those? Mine is 850w and it’s a heavy duty ebike that can carry 2-3 people. The ones at the local shop look like they’re under 500w. If someone’s putting a 2000w motor in one and trying to pass it off as a bike, then they’re breaking laws that already exist.
You have a motorized contraption that can handle three people and don’t feel it should be treated like a motor vehicle?
It’s heavy and requires me to pedal it. The only way I break 20mph, something doable on flat ground on a normal bike, is by starting on a good hill.
You can do the same on a skateboard or skis. Going to require licensing and insurance for those too?
You seem to be confusing class 1 and 3 e-bikes with electric motorcycles.
If people were skiing on public roads and sidewalks, yeah.
But skiers aren’t allowed on public roads and sidewalks. They’re confined to semi-private areas which have rules and patrols and if you don’t follow the rules you get kicked out.
And they aren’t even riding a 100+ pound vehicle.
Cargo bikes are a great way to transport people - especially kids! For a lot of families it’s important for a parent to be able to get two kids onto the bike. But they aren’t speed demons. It’s not cargo bikes that are endangering people on the streets.
I have a cargo bike that I can get two kids on that has two wheels, and is close to the wheelbase of a typical bike: 135 cm / 53 in. Like most cargo ebikes it’s class 1, so speed limited to 20mph assisted. The extra powerful motor is for getting the thing up a hill. It’s about three times the weight of an un-motorized bike. It’s not that big, not crazy heavy, and not very fast.
I understand what a cargo bike is.
I don’t understand the resistance to licensing, insurance, and safety laws.
I own a motorcycle, a road-legal scooter, and several bicycles. E-bikes are very dangerous to riders and pedestrians and will be regulated one way or another. Especially how people ride them at 30+ mph on shared bike/foot paths and through crosswalks.
Getting a motorcycle endorsement wasn’t some epic struggle and frankly weeds out some of the yahoos. A weekend, a couple hundred bucks, and a trip to the DMV is all it takes.
Getting on board with e-bike regulation now will guide it in a beneficial direction.
If it’s going 30+ mph on a path or a crosswalk then it’s not a regulation-compliant e-bike. You might be seeing e-motos, and mentally categorizing them as e-bikes. We all want extra requirements on vehicles that go 30+ mph.
E-bikes are regulated. They are required to max out at 20 mph, or 28 mph. (Where I live in California the class 3 28 mph bikes are not allowed on mixed use trails, and are only allowed for ages 16 and up.) We are on board with regulation exactly because we want it to go in a beneficial direction. I don’t think requiring a driver’s license and insurance, and cutting out young teenagers is a beneficial direction. No, we don’t want dangerous vehicles zooming around without accountability. That’s why e-bike advocates came up with the 20 mph limit in the first place!
We don’t want restrictions on bikes, because bikes get people outside, and reduce dependence on cars. E-bikes are bikes that work in places with hills, or in situations where long distances make unassisted cycling prohibitive for people who are not athletes.
One more note I’ll add about cargo bikes is why I don’t think of them as motor vehicles: everything you can do on a cargo e-bike you can do on a non-motorized bike - on flat ground. A cargo e-bike is a cargo bike that works on hills.
There are two groups who are hit hard by licensing and insurance requirements: people with low income, and kids.
People with low income will struggle with any additional cost. A couple hundred bucks, insurance - even if it won’t cost very much from some people’s perspective - is a burden. E-bikes can be a livelihood, like for delivery drivers in cities. Even if it’s not a livelihood, everyone needs transportation.
The New Jersey law flat-out prohibits kids under 15 years old from riding e-bikes. Kids 15 or 16 now need a motorized bike license. Kids are not getting out or socializing enough these days. E-bikes help change that. My 14-year-old rides a class 1 e-bike to school. Before getting that bike he spent most of his time on weekends at home, mostly in front of a screen. We live in a car-dependent society where everything is miles apart. Public transit in my town is crap. There are big hills that make it impractical for him to get home on an unassisted bike. My kid could only go places when my wife or I had time to drive him. But since getting the bike he goes out on the weekend, and visits friends who live a few miles away. They organize nerf battles. He’s much happier! And no, he’s not going more than 20 mph on that bike. With the NJ law there would have been two years of missing out on those benefits, and then an extra licensing and insurance process after that which is going to reduce the number of kids getting outside. Fewer parents are going to set kids up with bikes if there are extra bureaucratic steps, and if it comes with a recurring insurance cost.
Where?
…
I provided a source that says the opposite.
I did. Now explain why my source is wrong and provide a more accurate source other than “in my wildly selection-biased experience…”
I agree. Two wheeled motor vehicles which can hit the same top speeds as motorcycles and scooters should be regulated as motorcycles and scooters. But those which can’t (which according to the source I provided above, is most of them) should not be regulated, since such regulation would reduce adoption of this extremely economically and environmentally beneficial alternative to personal automobiles.
There is no way I’m going back through this. I will answer the first one though just so you know you know your are not comprehending what I’m saying. Most likely you just dont like the answer.
The legal minimum for a gas powered bike to to not require licensing in my state and most US states is 47cc displacement. These engines generate on average 2.2 horse power which is equal to (let me get the exact number so you don’t nit pick) 1640.5 watts. Any ebike over this wattage is a motorcycle under the law. A motorcycle not a ebike.
Now go away. You lost and I’m tired of you.