IISS assessment lays bare challenges facing Europe should US cut back Ukraine military support
  • dumples@midwest.socialEnglish
    4·
    2 days ago

    What happening with drones on Ukraine shows that money doesn’t always translate to success. When a couple hundred dollar drone can destroy a million dollar tank spending doesn’t seem a good proxy

  • Gobbel2000@programming.devEnglish
    182·
    3 days ago

    Only if you convert rubles by “purchase power parity” as opposed to the market rate, which seems like a weird way to manipulate data to fit some narrative.

    • bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      1·
      23 hours ago

      Germany pays their soldiers multiple times what Russians get. There’s also lots of money just spent on pensions for retired soldiers. That money doesn’t lead to any military capability. A huge part of defense spend on goes into personell. Richer countries, not only pay better, they also offer more benefits. Healthcare for example is cheaper in Russia as well.

      Comparing spending one to one does not lead to a conclusive answer.

      What you actually need to compare is capabilities, volume, readiness, training, and so on.

      Another example: NATO often trains winter warfare in Norway, a notoriously expensive country. Russia has much lower costs to conduct exercises for the same environment.

      Then there’s existing infrastructure like factories, repair yards, storage bunkers, etc. Europe is still scaling up and building to match Russia’s production rates. Building a new factory, training staff, etc. takes a lot of money and time. Russia is years ahead in many of these areas. Building up from zero is far more expensive than increasing the number of shifts of an existing factory.

      So with parity in spending, Russia will have much stronger capabilities than Europe. Europe needs to outspend Russia significantly to catch up and match.

    • misk@sopuli.xyzOPEnglish
      12·
      3 days ago

      PPP is a useful measure to compare wealth although it’s usually based on goods like bread and not tanks. There’s a grain of truth here as the difference in wages alone makes for a huge factor in the overall cost. Having access to many raw materials is a big boon for Russia too.

  • Valmond@lemmy.worldEnglish
    202·
    3 days ago

    The problem is that a) it’s not true and b) even if it was, there is not anything to buy for that money.

    Russia is running out of hardware, what are they going to do, throw rubles at the Ukrainian defenses?

    • bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      1·
      23 hours ago

      Russia still is very capable, has tons of hardware, and is making more. The air force is still looking really good.

      Running out doesn’t mean, they will ever actually run out. It just means a weapon will be used more rarely.

      • Valmond@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1·
        20 hours ago

        They produce around 10 tanks a month, refurbished included. They lose that in 2 days.

        Their airforce is looking good? Then where is it? Where is the air superiority? Nowhere to be seen because they’d get shot down.

        You’re right that they will not run out like I run out of milk, but if you can’t replace the losses of tanks and infantry vehicles, you have suddenly to rely on unprotected vehicles and human meat waves. They will not run out totally either, but it will stop them and the possibility to kick them out grows.

    • federal reverse@feddit.orgMEnglish
      181·
      3 days ago

      Russia not only has a massive sabotage-and-disinfo campaign, they also have semi-allies running the US now.

    • BrainInABox@lemmy.mlEnglish
      53·
      3 days ago

      I was hearing about how Russia was out of ammo and fighting with sticks and rocks two and a half years ago.

      • Valmond@lemmy.worldEnglish
        61·
        2 days ago

        Well then you were badly informed.

        2.5 years ago all the propaganda was : “sanctions doesn’t work!!” (Please remove them)

        • BrainInABox@lemmy.mlEnglish
          31·
          2 days ago

          I didn’t say I believed it, just that “Russia is about to run out of ammo!” Has been the cope for a long time now.

          • Valmond@lemmy.worldEnglish
            2·
            2 days ago

            I have sincerely not heard that they’d run out like 2 years ago. We all knew they had enormous stockpiles of soviet gear, how can you not know that? Or if you did, discarded the crazy talk?

            Today is another matter, they are running out, and relies on North Korea for shells and more.

            • BrainInABox@lemmy.mlEnglish
              41·
              2 days ago

              Well I absolutely heard it, as early as mid 2022.

              Or if you did, discarded the crazy talk? Today is another matter, they are running out,

              Yes, I’ve heard the cycle of “well obviously it’s wasn’t true then, but this time they really are running out of ammo” quite a few times over the years.

      • Doom@ttrpg.networkEnglish
        21·
        2 days ago

        I was hearing the same about Ukraine but I just keep seeing videos of dead Russians weird.

  • nevemsenki@lemmy.worldEnglish
    14·
    3 days ago

    It’s so frustrating how long Europe has been ignoring its need to be self sufficient in military defence. Even with a literal war going on next door and russia actively turning the political systems upside down.

  • Riddick3001@lemmy.worldEnglish
    10·
    3 days ago

    EU defense needs to get upped, functional and efficient asap.

    That said, Im not sure which data was used here by FT, but reports I’ve read include Russia currently adding repairing ancient (WWII ) military equipment to a net total production value. I.e. the real added value is considered much lower.