Before his arrest this week in the killing of UnitedHealthcare’s CEO, Mangione’s family desperately tried to find him, reaching out to former classmates and posting queries on social media.
The whole internet loves Alleged CEO Murderer, a handsome fellow who is alleged to murder CEOs! 5 seconds later We regret to inform you the alleged CEO murderer is a rationalist.
Effective altruisim is fine on paper, and I’m sure there’s people effectively effective altruisim, but most people who champion it are…well…Sam Bankman-Fried and friends. Wearing a mask of doing it for the unfortunate and spending everything on a beachfront mansion robbing Peter to pay Paul, with absolutely no real intention of helping the folk that “effective” altruisim is meant to help.
I liked Luigi, and this is gonna sound a bit rough, because he shot a useless piece of shit drain on society. Effective altruisim is nice on paper, but it’s almost always used to fleece the stupid so the rich can get richer.
I went to a university with a big Effective Altruist presence (I think I still have a ruler and a memory stick with their branding on it somewhere) and I found many of the arguments they make quite compelling until I looked into the movement more deeply and saw its repugnant core
Many people who are drawn to Effective Altruism are aware of the state of the world, and their relative privilege, but they feel overwhelmed by how little they’re able to contribute to solving problems, relative to the size of the problems. People don’t “donate” to EA, they’re buying into a lie that helps them to feel less directly responsible for the world.
I initially found the theoretical idea appealing as I saw it applied to things like funding vitamins or iodine supplements for 3rd world kids, mosquito nets to cut down on malaria worldwide, etc.
It wasn’t until later that I saw it connected to the bizarre religion they were concocting around AI.
He’s young. He’s still working out his view of the world. Of course he’s gonna investigate ideas, accepting some and rejecting others. He’s not far off.
I’m not suggesting which ideas are right and wrong, or which he would accept or reject.
I’m saying he’s young and seeking out ideas. Of course some will be problematic. He might reject them. He might not. Regardless, just the fact that he was curious is a point in his favor.
I’m much older than him and this is the first time I’ve heard of “effective altruism.”
I wasn’t criticizing stoicism or effective altruism because I’m not informed enough on them. I wasn’t criticizing rationalism because I’m in favor of it. But I’m willing to bet if society has managed to fuck up stoicism and altruism, we’ve probably done the same with rationalism too.
I wasn’t addressing which ideas or positions he was taking because I can’t see inside his head. I have no idea how he thinks, or which paths he has taken. I don’t know how he will change in the future. That would be presumptuous.
I do like that he is curious. That’s a good quality in a person. Not everyone is.
large sections of lemmy have convinced themselves that Luigi is a leftist before learning that he’s an EA libertarian and all implications and what side effects followed cause brain damage
yeah, until they pull out their machine god they absolutely have to build, because otherwise trillions of simulated humans will be tortured forever and that’s not mathing in their sum of all happiness. also it never occurred to them that maybe billionaires shouldn’t exist and instead post things like this:
Ironically the trolley problem meme here is a great example of the objection: the same set up that puts him in the position to pull the lever also requires that people be tied to the track.
I’m with you, but someone who kills the CEO of a health insurance company does not strike me as someone who dismisses real/immediate suffering out of hand.
No, if you’re from the same socioeconomic sphere as him and haven’t lived long enough. The only people I’ve ever met or heard of that are effective altruists are “upper middle class” or properly wealthy…and younger than 50…
I guess because I was an idiot cringe atheist rationalist realist (you know the type) when I was his age, and thanks to an open mind and some very patient very wise people in my life, I was able to grow out of it, I give people like that the benefit of the doubt as long as they’re otherwise kind and open-minded.
My issue isn’t with the basic ideals of effective altruisim, it’s with how it’s used by the wealthy to fleece people with the idea of helping people.
There’s not a single thing wrong with being a starry-eyed idealist. Especially if you act, bring your beliefs and ideals into fact.
Uuuuuuugh…I really liked him too…
The whole internet loves Alleged CEO Murderer, a handsome fellow who is alleged to murder CEOs! 5 seconds later We regret to inform you the alleged CEO murderer is a rationalist.
Effective altruisim is fine on paper, and I’m sure there’s people effectively effective altruisim, but most people who champion it are…well…Sam Bankman-Fried and friends. Wearing a mask of doing it for the unfortunate and spending everything on a beachfront mansion robbing Peter to pay Paul, with absolutely no real intention of helping the folk that “effective” altruisim is meant to help.
I liked Luigi, and this is gonna sound a bit rough, because he shot a useless piece of shit drain on society. Effective altruisim is nice on paper, but it’s almost always used to fleece the stupid so the rich can get richer.
I would say that he has some moral principles and did actually effective altruism
I went to a university with a big Effective Altruist presence (I think I still have a ruler and a memory stick with their branding on it somewhere) and I found many of the arguments they make quite compelling until I looked into the movement more deeply and saw its repugnant core
Many people who are drawn to Effective Altruism are aware of the state of the world, and their relative privilege, but they feel overwhelmed by how little they’re able to contribute to solving problems, relative to the size of the problems. People don’t “donate” to EA, they’re buying into a lie that helps them to feel less directly responsible for the world.
oh yeah, lotta EAs really care and work their backsides off and live on beans
it’s a pity about the ones at the top
@AnarchistArtificer @Sturgist
Ya, this is a very good point.
I initially found the theoretical idea appealing as I saw it applied to things like funding vitamins or iodine supplements for 3rd world kids, mosquito nets to cut down on malaria worldwide, etc.
It wasn’t until later that I saw it connected to the bizarre religion they were concocting around AI.
He’s young. He’s still working out his view of the world. Of course he’s gonna investigate ideas, accepting some and rejecting others. He’s not far off.
“Which ideas?”
“Oh, you know the ones”
I’m not suggesting which ideas are right and wrong, or which he would accept or reject.
I’m saying he’s young and seeking out ideas. Of course some will be problematic. He might reject them. He might not. Regardless, just the fact that he was curious is a point in his favor.
I’m much older than him and this is the first time I’ve heard of “effective altruism.”
you: thinks one is doing this with care and finesse
nobody:
everyone else: 🤨
I wasn’t criticizing stoicism or effective altruism because I’m not informed enough on them. I wasn’t criticizing rationalism because I’m in favor of it. But I’m willing to bet if society has managed to fuck up stoicism and altruism, we’ve probably done the same with rationalism too.
I wasn’t addressing which ideas or positions he was taking because I can’t see inside his head. I have no idea how he thinks, or which paths he has taken. I don’t know how he will change in the future. That would be presumptuous.
I do like that he is curious. That’s a good quality in a person. Not everyone is.
I… have to ask: are you actually aware of what the hell the context is of the things that you’re commenting about?
large sections of lemmy have convinced themselves that Luigi is a leftist before learning that he’s an EA libertarian and all implications and what side effects followed cause brain damage
Getting flashbacks to the people who thought the GameStop guy was a leftist
https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1go1ndu/rsuperstonk_in_the_midst_of_a_political_civil_war/
ah yeah the famously leftist activity: stock trading
difference here is that superstonk is qanon-grade conspiracy by now and here it’s luigi who adheres to tpot schizopolitics
CEOs vs dust specks (large ones very fast)
If you don’t know any better, ie haven’t lived long enough, then it sounds like a logical and compelling ideology
yeah, until they pull out their machine god they absolutely have to build, because otherwise trillions of simulated humans will be tortured forever and that’s not mathing in their sum of all happiness. also it never occurred to them that maybe billionaires shouldn’t exist and instead post things like this:
totally not a cult btw
Realistic version: pulling the lever would save five lives but that decision would cost shareholders $7.23. What should you do?
10/10 CEOs fail this test!
Ironically the trolley problem meme here is a great example of the objection: the same set up that puts him in the position to pull the lever also requires that people be tied to the track.
Also they could pull a lot more levers, but those other levers are not pulled. See how musk paid 6.5 times fixing world hunger for twitter.
I’m with you, but someone who kills the CEO of a health insurance company does not strike me as someone who dismisses real/immediate suffering out of hand.
No, if you’re from the same socioeconomic sphere as him and haven’t lived long enough. The only people I’ve ever met or heard of that are effective altruists are “upper middle class” or properly wealthy…and younger than 50…
I guess because I was an idiot cringe atheist rationalist realist (you know the type) when I was his age, and thanks to an open mind and some very patient very wise people in my life, I was able to grow out of it, I give people like that the benefit of the doubt as long as they’re otherwise kind and open-minded.
My issue isn’t with the basic ideals of effective altruisim, it’s with how it’s used by the wealthy to fleece people with the idea of helping people.
There’s not a single thing wrong with being a starry-eyed idealist. Especially if you act, bring your beliefs and ideals into fact.
I think we’re on the same page