I do try to avoid spaces with an over abundance of other Americans. Largely because I get way more than my share of American news pushed at me on all fronts every day and those people just tend to echo what CNN/Fox has to say about something over and over.
But to other nationalities, any space with a US presence is regarded as “CIA controlled propaganda and those Americans are all slaves of their rich overlords and their capitalism is the singular reason the world is shit”
Believe it or not, American media exists on a spectrum too, just like anywhere. Ironically, the people who spout this uninformed nonsense remind me of the lowest-common-denominator types of Americans who are afraid of Chinese immigrants and healthcare because “communism”.
I don’t regard any place with the US presence as a CIA clubhouse, but you must admit, The Default Country for many on the internet, here included, is the US. So yeah, most of the news are the US news
And to add, even our so-called “left-leaning” news outlets have a STRONG pro-establishment pro-capitalist bias, but we’re so immersed in it that I feel like it’s super hard to recognize. Anarchist and Marxist sources often get called out for their obvious bias, but guess what? CNN, MSNBC, WaPo… those are just as biased, but they’re more aligned to the status quo so we fail to see it.
Usually when people complain about bias, it’s because the news source is promoting something undesirable. If you agree with the viewpoints and ideology, then you’re not going to complain about bias usually, unless there’s some politics at play.
Yes exactly. This is also why those sites that proclaim to measure bias tend to be utterly subjective. They themselves show bias in their criteria and methodology
Because it means that contributions are always leaning towards American viewpoints. From politics being mainly concerned with US politics to comments being written from an English speaking, US perspective.
Would you join an instance with a dominating presence of Russian or Chinese or Brazilian or South African or Iranian users? I hope you can see why it matters now.
But I don’t think the Russians or Chinese would give two shits what I think about them dominating an online space
I’d expect anyone who’s dominating to not give a shit about others, because such a status somewhat benefits them.
Except that such a situation strengthens bias and creates an echo-chamber which may be problematic in the long run but isn’t seen as an issue most of the time, I think
There is no need to read those languages. Translations are still a thing. I remember that, while on Reddit, r/Europe posted links in other languages, but OP provided an English translation. So, yes, you can post national news in your official language, whatever it is, and post its translation, and now you have an international community or instance.
But it seems I’m the only one who posts links in my official language (Spanish) on international communities.
No, not at all. But by sheer number of submissions and comments the collective hive mind will tend towards topics that are relevant for the biggest population.
It’s nothing malicious. People are simply less likely to upvote and engage with content that does not interest them or is not relevant for them. All natural of course. But the side effect is that minority topics are suppressed.
For what it’s worth, the same issue exists in German speaking communities as well. /r/de is the subreddit for all German speakers. But while the Austrians and Swiss are explicitly invited too, by sheer number of citizens the news about German politics make up the vast majority of submissions in the subreddit.
The same probably applies to my account’s instance (feddit.de), though I am not sure if the swiss and austrians have dedicated instances as well. Thanks to federation the effect is lessened, because every country (or otherwise defined group) can have their own frontpage. (E.g. lemmy.ca or lemmy.blahaj.zone)
I would love to see some examples of these minority topics being down voted or suppressed since it seems to be deeply affecting international users’ experience.
To me, it seems like you and the OP resent US users for simply existing in an online space without putting forth any solutions to the issue. Are you sure you’re not trying to find ways to justify anti-US bias?
If you want the space to have more equal representation, why not produce high-quality content that appeals to your fellows rather than moaning about people who by your own admission mean no harm?
As @[email protected] already pointed out (thanks girl!), I never said they would get downvoted. It’s just that if US news are upvoted and international news are not, then sorting by upvotes (which any reasonable algorithm will do), will inevitably lead to a reduced visibility of said international news.
Thanks to federation the frontpage itself is mostly non specific memes and tech/Linux content. But if you want a concrete example: here is a screenshot of [email protected]. the name of the community would suggest well, world news. The reality is … Quite different:
The nine posts in the screenshot are about:
Elon musk (50/50)
Jk Rowling & a new Scottish law (international)
US traffic blockades (US)
Donald Trump (US)
Israel war (international)
US jails (US)
US housing (US)
Donald Trump (US)
Donald Trump (US)
If you want the space to have more equal representation, why not produce high-quality content that appeals to your fellows rather than moaning about people who by your own admission mean no harm?
As i have just explained in my first paragraph this will not be enough. (And that’s aside from the extra effort required to keep up said high quality work. Even if it would lead to equal representation, it’s an uphill battle.)
Are you sure you’re not trying to find ways to justify anti-US bias?
Yes, I am sure. I am merely stating a fact. This dynamic develops in any online space with a clear majority group. For example, take the /r/de subreddit. It is the default subreddit for German speaking users on reddit. Austrian and Swiss users are explicitly invited. And yet, by sheer number of citizens the news about German politics dominate the submissions. I do no more resent Germans for up voting content that interest them on /r/de (for example myself) than I resent Americans upvoting content that interests them.
Similarly you can take any other instance that is specific to a group, be it defined via country (e.g. lemmy.ca) or shared interest/experience (e.g. lemmy.blahaj.zone) and you will find that minorities that are not part of that definition will inevitably be suppressed. But these country or interest specific instances do not claim to cover the world. In fact, OP was probably writing this post not due to the presence of US citizens on Lemmy, but due to the overwhelming presence of US citizens on an instance that claims to represent the world. Renaming [email protected] to [email protected] would go a long way.
The comment you replied to very clearly said “less likely to upvote” not that topics are downvoted. But this kind of American exceptionalism is like 90% of the problem I have with spaces being dominated by y’all. Frankly it’s insufferable how far up your own arses you’ve stuffed your heads.
You barged in here and mischaracterised what someone said so you could be outraged…SMH and you still think we all are the problem.
The one thing that you could do, that any American could do, is be capable of introspection on this stuff. But this thread kinda proves how impossible that is. Other people and places exist. English is the lingua franca of the Internet. Would y’all please stop being so self-centred?
I “barged in” to a thread on Lemmy, a public forum where all are supposedly welcome? Are you seriously trying to exclude me based on my identity or background?
To me, it seems like you and the OP resent US users for simply existing in an online space without putting forth any solutions to the issue. Are you sure you’re not trying to find ways to justify anti-US bias?
If you want the space to have more equal representation, why not produce high-quality content that appeals to your fellows rather than moaning about people who by your own admission mean no harm?
I would love to see some examples of these minority topics being down voted or suppressed since it seems to be deeply affecting international users’ experience
Could you please provide some examples? I am at a loss about what that could be except some hate topics that I expect to naturally get downvoted
i appreciate your leveled and honest analysis here. others are nitpicking your choice of language but personally this is the best summary of the situation i have seen to date :)
I don’t get it. Are you saying that lemmy.world has too many US users? Why would that matter?
As an American:
I do try to avoid spaces with an over abundance of other Americans. Largely because I get way more than my share of American news pushed at me on all fronts every day and those people just tend to echo what CNN/Fox has to say about something over and over.
But to other nationalities, any space with a US presence is regarded as “CIA controlled propaganda and those Americans are all slaves of their rich overlords and their capitalism is the singular reason the world is shit”
Believe it or not, American media exists on a spectrum too, just like anywhere. Ironically, the people who spout this uninformed nonsense remind me of the lowest-common-denominator types of Americans who are afraid of Chinese immigrants and healthcare because “communism”.
I don’t regard any place with the US presence as a CIA clubhouse, but you must admit, The Default Country for many on the internet, here included, is the US. So yeah, most of the news are the US news
And to add, even our so-called “left-leaning” news outlets have a STRONG pro-establishment pro-capitalist bias, but we’re so immersed in it that I feel like it’s super hard to recognize. Anarchist and Marxist sources often get called out for their obvious bias, but guess what? CNN, MSNBC, WaPo… those are just as biased, but they’re more aligned to the status quo so we fail to see it.
Usually when people complain about bias, it’s because the news source is promoting something undesirable. If you agree with the viewpoints and ideology, then you’re not going to complain about bias usually, unless there’s some politics at play.
Yes exactly. This is also why those sites that proclaim to measure bias tend to be utterly subjective. They themselves show bias in their criteria and methodology
Because it means that contributions are always leaning towards American viewpoints. From politics being mainly concerned with US politics to comments being written from an English speaking, US perspective.
Would you join an instance with a dominating presence of Russian or Chinese or Brazilian or South African or Iranian users? I hope you can see why it matters now.
If I could read those languages yes probably.
Same. But I don’t think the Russians or Chinese would give two shits what I think about them dominating an online space lol
Also pretty sure Iranians are struggling to get online rn let alone take over an instance
I’d expect anyone who’s dominating to not give a shit about others, because such a status somewhat benefits them.
Except that such a situation strengthens bias and creates an echo-chamber which may be problematic in the long run but isn’t seen as an issue most of the time, I think
There is no need to read those languages. Translations are still a thing. I remember that, while on Reddit, r/Europe posted links in other languages, but OP provided an English translation. So, yes, you can post national news in your official language, whatever it is, and post its translation, and now you have an international community or instance.
But it seems I’m the only one who posts links in my official language (Spanish) on international communities.
So, you’re saying that US users on lemmy.world are keeping other nationalities from talking about issues or viewpoints relevant to them?
No, not at all. But by sheer number of submissions and comments the collective hive mind will tend towards topics that are relevant for the biggest population.
It’s nothing malicious. People are simply less likely to upvote and engage with content that does not interest them or is not relevant for them. All natural of course. But the side effect is that minority topics are suppressed.
There really are just a lot of us. Many English speaking platforms will naturally be filled with US folks because of the sheer number of us.
Exactly!
For what it’s worth, the same issue exists in German speaking communities as well. /r/de is the subreddit for all German speakers. But while the Austrians and Swiss are explicitly invited too, by sheer number of citizens the news about German politics make up the vast majority of submissions in the subreddit.
The same probably applies to my account’s instance (feddit.de), though I am not sure if the swiss and austrians have dedicated instances as well. Thanks to federation the effect is lessened, because every country (or otherwise defined group) can have their own frontpage. (E.g. lemmy.ca or lemmy.blahaj.zone)
I would love to see some examples of these minority topics being down voted or suppressed since it seems to be deeply affecting international users’ experience.
To me, it seems like you and the OP resent US users for simply existing in an online space without putting forth any solutions to the issue. Are you sure you’re not trying to find ways to justify anti-US bias?
If you want the space to have more equal representation, why not produce high-quality content that appeals to your fellows rather than moaning about people who by your own admission mean no harm?
As @[email protected] already pointed out (thanks girl!), I never said they would get downvoted. It’s just that if US news are upvoted and international news are not, then sorting by upvotes (which any reasonable algorithm will do), will inevitably lead to a reduced visibility of said international news.
Thanks to federation the frontpage itself is mostly non specific memes and tech/Linux content. But if you want a concrete example: here is a screenshot of [email protected]. the name of the community would suggest well, world news. The reality is … Quite different:
The nine posts in the screenshot are about:
As i have just explained in my first paragraph this will not be enough. (And that’s aside from the extra effort required to keep up said high quality work. Even if it would lead to equal representation, it’s an uphill battle.)
Yes, I am sure. I am merely stating a fact. This dynamic develops in any online space with a clear majority group. For example, take the /r/de subreddit. It is the default subreddit for German speaking users on reddit. Austrian and Swiss users are explicitly invited. And yet, by sheer number of citizens the news about German politics dominate the submissions. I do no more resent Germans for up voting content that interest them on /r/de (for example myself) than I resent Americans upvoting content that interests them.
Similarly you can take any other instance that is specific to a group, be it defined via country (e.g. lemmy.ca) or shared interest/experience (e.g. lemmy.blahaj.zone) and you will find that minorities that are not part of that definition will inevitably be suppressed. But these country or interest specific instances do not claim to cover the world. In fact, OP was probably writing this post not due to the presence of US citizens on Lemmy, but due to the overwhelming presence of US citizens on an instance that claims to represent the world. Renaming [email protected] to [email protected] would go a long way.
Sure, petition to rename it. I don’t think anyone would care, except the folks feeling suppressed by American exceptionalism.
Or, idk, start your own world news instance with super strict rules, zero US stuff. No one is stopping you. Isn’t that the point of this platform?
The comment you replied to very clearly said “less likely to upvote” not that topics are downvoted. But this kind of American exceptionalism is like 90% of the problem I have with spaces being dominated by y’all. Frankly it’s insufferable how far up your own arses you’ve stuffed your heads.
Do you think “supress” simply means “not up voting non-US content?” Okay, maybe I got that one wrong.
But you really don’t get how hostile you guys come off toward US folks who are just existing?
I mean, your comment is the very embodiment 9f the anti-US sentiment I see from so many. What are people supposed to do to appease you?
You barged in here and mischaracterised what someone said so you could be outraged…SMH and you still think we all are the problem.
The one thing that you could do, that any American could do, is be capable of introspection on this stuff. But this thread kinda proves how impossible that is. Other people and places exist. English is the lingua franca of the Internet. Would y’all please stop being so self-centred?
I “barged in” to a thread on Lemmy, a public forum where all are supposedly welcome? Are you seriously trying to exclude me based on my identity or background?
First example of my solution and content
Second example of my solution and content
Third example of my solution and content
Fourth example of my solution and content
Fifth example of my solution and content
Sixth example of my solution and content
Seventh example of my solution and content
EDIT:
Eighth example of my solution and content
Ninth example of my solution and content
Could you please provide some examples? I am at a loss about what that could be except some hate topics that I expect to naturally get downvoted
i appreciate your leveled and honest analysis here. others are nitpicking your choice of language but personally this is the best summary of the situation i have seen to date :)