Well, we can open the market to the Chinese, which you claim will destroy the Canadian market, but also get access to inexpensive Chinese cars, or wait until we have no market anyway since the US is going to fuck us, in which case we have no market and we won’t have access to inexpensive Chinese cars. The first sounds better to me.
I would prefer to get commitment to build Chinese cars in Canada, for sure. We already built BYD buses but we fucked ourselves on that in respect of the US as well.
Regarding losing our industry, I’m not sure that’s the case. We would lose the US but that’s probably already going to happen.
I’m guessing Carney is going to discuss with Xi in the trip. He’ll hold any potentials in his back pocket for leverage against the US in CUSMA talks.
I personally think we should be discussing a much deeper relationship with China, including military. Forget that US, they’re finished.
Or if we’re going to get fucked by the USA we can nationalize the factories we do have and make our own EV domestically instead of through the US OEMs. Or help a new Canadian EV OEM start if the US is going to abandon it.
Inviting China in is completely giving up on the topic and will result in 10s of thousands of jobs lost.
I would love to see a Canadian EV, but I can recognize that this may be quite difficult unless the government is willing to spend lots of money. You and I might be okay with this but as with everything it will be trade-off of how much risk we want to incur in a long term diversification that drains short term funds that we may need in short order for other priorities, versus get the industry up and running again with assembly plants building Chinese vehicles so we don’t completely collapse this year if the US decides to shit the bed.
I suspect Carney has this kind of decision to make.
Keep in mind that Carney is under attack for Stellantis. Imagine how much right wing dopes would foam at the mouth if billions were spent on a Canadian EV. Again I would probably be willing to listen to such a proposal, but I know there is more to this than me and my limited knowledge.
Seems like Ford and GM are blowing up their EV programs. Korea has good models. For battery plants, Stelantis/LG has started production, though Stelantis doesn’t make EVs. They are building for ESS. Volkswagen has started building a battery plant. Skyview 2 is primarily ESS too. Tons of cancelations though, and Governments begging for refunds.
may be quite difficult unless the government is willing to spend lots of money
The future of auto industry is more automation and less jobs. $50B in funding since 2020 could be more than $5M per direct job created, and then so many cancelled projects looks bad. The 2009 bailout was $150k per every worker. $75B in last 20 years for auto subisidies. At 1.9m vehicles sold per year, the $10B/year over last 5 years is $5000+/vehicle sold (without any consumer price breaks), which is ok metric if exports/imports balance, I doubt employment will increase. I’m sure another economic collapse will happen that politicians tell us need more auto sector subsidies
Getting to a more precise point, Canada has one of the largest auto markets in the world about equal to France and UK despite half the population. China investing its own money in Canada manufacturing of autos, robots with deal for Canadian supply chain and resources is probably Canada’s only future. It would provide much better value autos to consumers, and better value robots to Canadian manufacturers that lets them outcompete US. Canadian employment for factory building. EVs are better cars, and there would be no need for extra tax credits for good value vehicles.
Whether negotiating with US automakers or US government, posture should be that they need to make massive investments in Canada instead as compensation for past bailouts instead of weaseling more subsidies. Far more geopolitical tributes are owed by US to Canada. If they refuse then China, South east Asia, South Korea (a recent maybe), would be Canada’s economic future.
2m annual Canadian vehicle market is a prize that the world should covet, and give it to the highest bidder, instead of a false, for the future, political employment football. Instead of Canadian taxpayers paying $5k per vehicle, auto buyers could save $5-$15k on vehicles with lower insurance rates, and lower taxi/uber rates due to lower capital and fuel/maintenance costs.
If we were doing assembly at least some could come from here ya. But it’s all out the window if they just cave and remove the import tarrif and welcome the cars in as is.
Negotiating quotas, dealership investments, factories, is reasonable to reduce tariffs to a “revenue raising” level, but also pressure US/western firms to invest more (without subsidy) to keep the large Canadian auto market access.
Well, we can open the market to the Chinese, which you claim will destroy the Canadian market, but also get access to inexpensive Chinese cars, or wait until we have no market anyway since the US is going to fuck us, in which case we have no market and we won’t have access to inexpensive Chinese cars. The first sounds better to me.
I would prefer to get commitment to build Chinese cars in Canada, for sure. We already built BYD buses but we fucked ourselves on that in respect of the US as well.
Regarding losing our industry, I’m not sure that’s the case. We would lose the US but that’s probably already going to happen.
I’m guessing Carney is going to discuss with Xi in the trip. He’ll hold any potentials in his back pocket for leverage against the US in CUSMA talks.
I personally think we should be discussing a much deeper relationship with China, including military. Forget that US, they’re finished.
Or if we’re going to get fucked by the USA we can nationalize the factories we do have and make our own EV domestically instead of through the US OEMs. Or help a new Canadian EV OEM start if the US is going to abandon it.
Inviting China in is completely giving up on the topic and will result in 10s of thousands of jobs lost.
I would love to see a Canadian EV, but I can recognize that this may be quite difficult unless the government is willing to spend lots of money. You and I might be okay with this but as with everything it will be trade-off of how much risk we want to incur in a long term diversification that drains short term funds that we may need in short order for other priorities, versus get the industry up and running again with assembly plants building Chinese vehicles so we don’t completely collapse this year if the US decides to shit the bed.
I suspect Carney has this kind of decision to make.
Keep in mind that Carney is under attack for Stellantis. Imagine how much right wing dopes would foam at the mouth if billions were spent on a Canadian EV. Again I would probably be willing to listen to such a proposal, but I know there is more to this than me and my limited knowledge.
Seems like Ford and GM are blowing up their EV programs. Korea has good models. For battery plants, Stelantis/LG has started production, though Stelantis doesn’t make EVs. They are building for ESS. Volkswagen has started building a battery plant. Skyview 2 is primarily ESS too. Tons of cancelations though, and Governments begging for refunds.
The future of auto industry is more automation and less jobs. $50B in funding since 2020 could be more than $5M per direct job created, and then so many cancelled projects looks bad. The 2009 bailout was $150k per every worker. $75B in last 20 years for auto subisidies. At 1.9m vehicles sold per year, the $10B/year over last 5 years is $5000+/vehicle sold (without any consumer price breaks), which is ok metric if exports/imports balance, I doubt employment will increase. I’m sure another economic collapse will happen that politicians tell us need more auto sector subsidies
Getting to a more precise point, Canada has one of the largest auto markets in the world about equal to France and UK despite half the population. China investing its own money in Canada manufacturing of autos, robots with deal for Canadian supply chain and resources is probably Canada’s only future. It would provide much better value autos to consumers, and better value robots to Canadian manufacturers that lets them outcompete US. Canadian employment for factory building. EVs are better cars, and there would be no need for extra tax credits for good value vehicles.
Whether negotiating with US automakers or US government, posture should be that they need to make massive investments in Canada instead as compensation for past bailouts instead of weaseling more subsidies. Far more geopolitical tributes are owed by US to Canada. If they refuse then China, South east Asia, South Korea (a recent maybe), would be Canada’s economic future.
2m annual Canadian vehicle market is a prize that the world should covet, and give it to the highest bidder, instead of a false, for the future, political employment football. Instead of Canadian taxpayers paying $5k per vehicle, auto buyers could save $5-$15k on vehicles with lower insurance rates, and lower taxi/uber rates due to lower capital and fuel/maintenance costs.
I’m just picturing some sort of MAGA Albertan with a F350 rolling coal everywhere saying Carney is trying to kill our oil industry.
You mentioned assembly plant, that could also be an option va importing complete cars.
local battery and motor plants with local materials would boost Canadian economy.
If we were doing assembly at least some could come from here ya. But it’s all out the window if they just cave and remove the import tarrif and welcome the cars in as is.
Negotiating quotas, dealership investments, factories, is reasonable to reduce tariffs to a “revenue raising” level, but also pressure US/western firms to invest more (without subsidy) to keep the large Canadian auto market access.