If you asked me like 4-8 years ago, I felt kind of neutral about things. Now I don’t feel an ounce bit patriotic or proud enough to even state that I’m an American.
Now, when I see an American flag around, I see it as a symbol of fascism, anti-intelluctialism, neo-nazism, and late-stage capitalism amongst other things. If there’s an American flag flying on a car, I can totally see that person possessing at least one of those qualities.
I suppose it’s good to be self aware and not blindly feel patriotic and ignoring that your country needs improvement.
I don’t know what I’m expecting in the comments here but just thought I would get this off my chest.
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Do USian school children still talk to that bit of fabric every morning - or is that a myth? From an outsider’s perspective I always put the US just below, uh, post-Weimar republic Germany in the excessive flag club chart placings. Always seemed excessively jingoistic.
Best of luck with your country…
No, you shouldn’t, because nearly half the country voted against Trump. It wasn’t enough, but it certainly indicates a significant portion of the country opposes him and the ideologies behind him. What we, as Americans, should be ashamed of is our pathetic educational system, which is at the root of this problem.
Both Republicans and Democrats are at the core of this problem. Republicans don’t want any public education at all and Democrats have polluted public education with Far Left propaganda that has fueled conservative rage and helped Far Right people divide the nation. Race and gender issues have eclipsed class issues, which are the real problems of the nation. As much as LGBT and racial groups deserve their particular rights, the real divisions at the heart of America are between the middle- and working-classes and the ultra-rich. Corporations are the prime devil that need to be taken down, not White men. Plenty of White men are suffering at the hands of corporations and they need to be woken up. The most recent election has shown that non-Whites are just as susceptible to Trump’s charms as anyone else. We need to stop focusing on superficial divisors such as race and gender and start focusing on class divisors much more.
No. I saw a lady driving with two USA flags on the sides of her car yesterday. I assume this is her alternative to having a Trump sticker, since that shit would likely engender a negative response in the Bay Area (specifically Oakland / Berkeley). She just looked dumb as fuck. I was embarrassed for her.
Don’t be ashamed to be ashamed of your country. If you’re also a USA citizen, we have a lot to be ashamed about. But also don’t give up. Fight back. Don’t let them slow-roll to victory by causing us to go numb.
No, you’re right to feel that way. While most Americans aren’t terrible people, enough of us are that we allowed fascism to take over and we will have to carry that shame with us for the rest of our lives. It Happened Here.
No, you’re right to feel that way.
Agree.
While most Americans aren’t terrible people,
Hard disagree.
enough of us are that we allowed fascism to take over and we will have to carry that shame with us for the rest of our lives. It Happened Here.
Well…yeah. That’s a symptom of the problem which is why I had to hard disagree with you.
However you feel is not “wrong”, and in this case pretty understandable.
Here in Australia I don’t have a problem with the flag itself, but there seems to be a strong correlation with people putting flags on their cars and being racist assholes.
I’d say the only reason you didn’t feel that before was ignorance, the American flag is NOT a thing of good. It has been fucked up from the very beginning. And to us who are not Americans, it’s very obvious how much your country absolutely forces brainwashing of all citizens from the second they’re born. American patriotism and love for the flag etc. is in the same way that for example a priest shows how much they’re against homosexuality and other sins like it then they’re found with child-p (I don’t want to fully write it) and stuff like that. It’s the school bully that screams about how cool and strong they are, when they’re exactly the opposite.
The same happens in Spain if you are leftist since the civil war, even before maybe.
this is what free speech is all about, you should never feel wrong for feeling gross about how your country is fucking up
Totally healthy! I started that when my friends died in Iraq or came back without limbs and sustaining life long trauma. But newbies always welcome 😁
Is it sad that I know your rough age, just based on the fact that you went to THIS country which had an unwarrented war return kids with missing limbs, or they returned in a box…as opposed to if you had said that you went to THIS OTHER country which had an unwarrented war return kids with missing limbs, or they returned in a box.
I know you’re 35-45, and not 70-80. The description is the same, but the boomers had a different country. Vietnam.
I just find it sad that the idea of our country sending an entire generation of kids off to die in a pointless war not only happened…it’s happened for multiple generations! The ONLY difference is that Iraq wasn’t mandated with a draft.
Lol pretty much. My HS US history teacher was a Vietnam vet. He kept a running total of Iraq civilian death and total death toll on the whiteboard. Told us stories from Vietnam of calling in bunk artillery coordinates cause he was tired of seeing dead civs, and how he wish he was a bomber crewmember cause then he wouldn’t have seen it. He updated the Iraq numbers at the start of every class.
Only teacher I’ve seen hit a kid. Kid was being a severe and petty little shit and directly insulted the trauma of servicemen. That teacher wouldn’t have given a fuck if you shit talked the military or the wars but insulting the suffering of his comrades in that specific way sent him. I think everyone kind of just mutually decided it didn’t happen.
The American flag has become more a symbol of nationalism to me than a symbol of patriotism. It represents everything I hate about my country, and none of the things I love.
I hate even dressing up on July 4th for fear of looking like a capitol raiding moron. It didn’t use to be like this, and frankly, it’s depressing as fuck. I used to be very proud of my nation, and the progress we’d made in my short lifespan. We legalized gay marriage, elected a black president, tried to get healthcare for all (didn’t work and we all know why), but I genuinely felt optimistic about our nation and the future. 4 years of Trump did a number on my sense of patriotism, and were only 1 months in to Trump 2.0 and he’s dealt a knockout blow to it. I genuinely cringe seeing any amount of national pride now.
Back in the day when my grandfather had a shack in Canada for the summers he would wear a Canada flag hat from time to time. People complimented him on it. This was in the 80s when pride in your country wasn’t associated with “nationalism” and sort of racial pride. Now-a-days even a Canadian flag holds weirdo connotations not even getting into the American flag…
Aw, I like the Canadian flag. I’m not Canadian, but I like Canada. Bunch of good people up there.
What I’m trying to say is…PLEASE LET ME IN!!! GET ME OUTTA THIS HELL HOLE AMERICA!!! I’m even in Cleveland! It wouldn’t even be that far away! Just I’ll borrow a jetski in the summer, and I’ll be over in like…20 minutes. I don’t know how long it takes to cross Lake Erie. I assume it’s short.
In elementary school, I was all about patriotism. The flag was cool. we (country) were the bad-ass owners of our own fate and we’re cool. We are the melting pot, by the people for the people.
Up through Desert Shield, I was still like yay, America.
W lost his luster, I got old enough to feel the embarrassment of broccoli and NUCULER. I wasn’t rah rah anymore, but those that are, live and let live right?
Dixie flag wavers were racists, that was easy, but the 1776 flag, will maybe they’re historians.
I was mostly over our the right’s shit by Clinton. But then Clinton had some of his own disturbing shit.
When Trump hit the first time, I saw, 30-40% of the population throwing flags up and starting fascist fights. Complete and Immediate disillusion.
At his point, someone flying the US flag is a BIG red flag. The Dixie flag is stupid racists, The 1776 flag is libertarians who fall into camps between uninformed and uninformed racists pop it up there with the don’t tread on me bullshit.
At this point, if you’re not retired military from a better time, there’s very little you can do to show me you can fly an American flag and not be a horrible person.
Another valid reason to fly one is self defense. If you are bold enough to exist on rural american roads while riding a bicycle, having an american flag visibly attached to your bike can do a lot to disarm the types of people who would otherwise run you off the road.
The greatest lie the Right ever told that the Left bought hook line and sinker was that they were the ones who represented America.
The thing is, while the US has it’s horrible history and present, the people who fought for the ideals we’re supposed to have are also just as much American as any conservative asshole. MLK Jr was American. Frederick Douglass was American. John Brown was American. Mister Rogers was American. Abolitionists. Suffragists. Union fighters. People fighting for fixing the problems, righting the wrongs, holding our country accountable for it’s own ideals, are just as much a part of that flag.
The assholes laid claim to that flag and the people who are aware of the problems, who have legitimate concerns with the bullshit this country has done and continues to do, accidentally let them.
Being an American is supposed to be about learning to be better and doing the next right thing.
This requires introspection and critically assessing our system to ascertain whether or not it’s lifting us - and the world - up. This noble, inclusive, empathetic approach (which we fail at all the time but we often try) is literally impossible for conservatives.
Yes I am speaking in grand language. Yes it’s even egotistical. But I grew up believing that the US was supposed to try and be an example what it means to do the right thing. We have lost our way and shown ourselves to be a selfish, hateful people.
Maybe we were always that, but I always hoped we could be more.
So then the question is, what should the flag represent, the people or the ideals? If it’s the ideals, then some real shitheads are trying to steal your flag.
The flag represents whatever we are, and right now we suck.
I agree with this with every piece of my heart. I’d like more than anything for American non-maga’s to take back the American flag (and the gadsden for that matter). Let them have their maga and thin blue line, but ceding the American flag to them is essentially admitting that you don’t want to be a part of this country, which only makes maga’s feel more comfortable about labeling you as an “other”. I know, I grew up in a conservative family, and still live in a conservative state. It’s a self-exacerbating problem.
I can sympathize with those that really are done with the country, but I’m not ready to give up yet. We can flip the script. Pride marches should be flooded with American flags. Civil rights too. Force conservatives to come to terms with the fact that they’re no more American than the trans-commie over there waving the big-ass American flag. If we’re so lucky to make it through this and come out the other side a better country, I wouldn’t necessarily be opposed to changing the flag. But right now I believe it makes strategic sense to claim the 50-stars. Fly your other flags with it if you don’t want to be confused for a conservative, then you’re essentially projecting “hey, I’m American too, dumbass!”.
TL;DR: the American left needs stop being so self-concious about what waving an American flag says about them and realize that a.) non-maga’s waving the American flag can be a powerful propaganda tool, and b.) they can take it back.
🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲 NAZI AMERICANS FUCK OFF 🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲
Tbh I think flag hate or angst is about as useful/less as flag worship. If you need something to be preoccupied with, why not make it a problem you can put that energy into doing something about where you live - like homeless people or food aid.
I might be reacting this way because I’ve been getting recent emails from my college about changing the school mascot, which is a “pioneer”. When I was there I don’t remember even being aware that there was a mascot. But apparently they think “pioneer” might be too closely associated with colonialism and they’ve decided this is an important issue. My attitude is create a Native American scholarship (or anything that actually does something) - don’t obsess on imagery.
