High-tech surveillance video and audio comms from a MN State Patrol helicopter, reveals planning and tactics behind the largest mass arrest in recent Minnesota history.
No, the point is that there are not effective ways to protest anymore, by design!
There is no one stopping you from protesting peacefully and without public disruption (like blocking roads) just as people in decades past did. What the people did in this video was clearly illegal and the police were correct to arrest those responsible. That’s not defending “the police state,” it’s recognizing that a group of people were doing something clearly illegal and being arrested for it accordingly without, from what I can tell form the video, excessive use of force.
You can sit by and watch the country crumble and succumb to corruption.
Lawlessness is not the answer. That includes blocking highways, assaulting the US Capitol, whatever. These are matters for the courts to decide based on rule of law. Which by the way, in this situation threw out every single one of Trump’s challenges to the election. You’re allowed to be jaded, but don’t confuse that with throwing out the entire system instead of attempting to fix its ills in a constructive way.
But sure, call me a “chode” for having a nuanced take on something and understanding that the world is not black and white. Insulting people is a wonderful way to sway opinion. Let’s turn down the toxicity here.
The courts are corrupt, you joker. At the end of the day, big cases go to the supreme court, which is stocked full of completely corrupt people (and you know this!). Your “nuance” is part of the reason we are here, having to take drastic action.
You are blind if you think that peaceful, government-condoned protests will change a fucking thing.
This isn’t the 1960’s. Those in charge have learned from those lessons. Drastic change is not peaceful, but it is exactly what we need. Protest SHOULD be disruptive, like strikes, which actually affect change! While those protesting (actual patriots, take notes) are risking their lives (literally), you’re slightly inconvenienced. Fuck off.
I’d take anarchy over the goddamn passive bullshit you’re spewing any day of the week, and I’m not alone. Trump will not be president again; not in my lifetime.
Protest SHOULD be disruptive, like strikes, which actually affect change! While those protesting (actual patriots, take notes) are risking their lives (literally), you’re slightly inconvenienced.
Sure, strike all you want. That’s not putting yourself and drivers on a highway in danger. Or shining a laser into a helicopter blinding the pilot while flying over a populated area. Indeed these people are risking their lives, but also putting other’s lives at risk too, especially when doing this stunt at night in the middle of an active highway. It’s not just a slight inconvenience, it’s stupid, misplaced, and irresponsible.
But alright my man, if that’s how you feel so be it, it’s your prerogative to be angry and call the people that would otherwise support your cause a “chode” and telling them to “fuck off” multiple times. The reason we’re in this situation is because of the anger and extremism. You know, I used to have a harder line on all of this stuff too, but after spending time having real conversations with people I disagreed with came around to realize that internet discourse is pure sensationalism and doesn’t reflect the real world. If we could turn down the volume then this extremism on both sides would not be necessary. Fighting fire with fire is always a losing game for both sides.
Anyway, I’m out. I came to this community for tech privacy issues, but it’s quickly turning into conspiracy and political theater so I unjoined it entirely. Take care.
It is infuriating to watch people, rational people, turn a blind eye to this sort of thing. I will watch your video, and I apologize for hurting your feelings. Calling people “fuckers”, “chodes”, etc. is part of my vernacular, as with many others of my generation; you shouldn’t take it so hard. The point isn’t to degrade you, but to snap your attention.
I think you are being absurd, because our democracy is in critical danger, and you’re worried about a road. I agree that shining a laser at planes is dangerous. If you had ever been manhandled by cops, you’d understand that they’re really, really dangerous, too. I have no sympathy for cops (did you see the people they tried to horse over?). They’re dangerous, and honestly, the most dangerous part about being in jail IS the cops (having been there myself on several occasions).
You have your opinion, which unfortunately sounds founded on a life of privilege. Don’t worry, passive citizen, we won’t let them ruin the country—neither corrupt politicians or dirty, scummy cops. Sit back and enjoy the benefits we’ll give you, regardless of your inability (read: unwillingness) to help.
I know I said I was out, but I wanted to say thanks for a thoughtful reply. I’m always happy to have discourse without vitriol so I’ll add some more thoughts here.
I think you are being absurd, because our democracy is in critical danger, and you’re worried about a road.
For the record, I’m not at all downplaying the corruption and illegality of the Trump administration. I wholeheartedly support the current criminal court cases going against him and, while I believe all defendants are innocent until proven guilty (doing otherwise would be to turn our backs on one of the tenants of a functioning democracy), I do hope to see him convicted of his crimes once proven in a court of law. I could write a lot more here, but I think we’re basically on the same page with this so I’ll spare the full sermon on the dangers of MAGAism.
In the case of this road thing, my concern stems from people, at night, flooding onto a highway. There’s a good chance multiple people are hit, and killed at those speeds, possibly involving multiple vehicles, maybe a semi-truck. Even the drivers of the cars could be hit by other cars and hurt themselves. Short of that, you have the psychological toll to live with of having accidentally killed someone. It’s really just a bad idea all around on top of not being an effective protest method. For those reasons, I do believe the police acted appropriately to show up, and arrest the people doing it.
On the topic of police, in general this is a difficult topic for me that I honestly don’t really feel qualified to speak on generally so I typically stay silent on it. That’s not because of an unwillingness to help but because I don’t believe in speaking on topics that I don’t feel qualified to speak on. You’re right that I’ve never had bad experiences with police to the point that I felt their actions were unethical or illegal. In fact, in my life I’ve personally known a handful of police officers and each one of them I found to be ethical people who wanted to live peaceful lives and do the right thing with their job. But I also recognize there are many instances of problematic (to put it lightly) policing and have seen many instances in the news demonstrating that. I also recognize that, in general, humans in positions of power tend to abuse that power. That’s why civilian oversight and accountability of police is paramount. That’s something that’s clearly lacking currently given the strength of police unions, as one example. Overall, I think it’s a system that needs reform, but I wouldn’t go so far as to throw out the whole system because what would it be replaced with? You can’t have a society without some way to enforce laws (like enforcing illegal and dangerous protests), but you also can’t have a police state. That’s what I mean by there’s a difficult nuance here, but I also recognize that I don’t know what that is and why I’m hesitant to even type this up right now. That’s also not to diminish your experiences, I’m sure they’re just as valid as mine, likely moreso given your experiences and my comparative lack thereof. I’d be happy to learn more about them if you want to share.
Calling people “fuckers”, “chodes”, etc. is part of my vernacular, as with many others of my generation; you shouldn’t take it so hard. The point isn’t to degrade you, but to snap your attention.
I’ve been on the internet for long enough to have been called much worse names many times before, I have a pretty thick skin at this point (see the other person on this thread telling me how I’m a fucktard and no one likes me, again, as if that’s going to accomplish anything). My point here was though that text based communication carries a negativity bias with it. In that we tend to assume bad intent and starting with language like that only serves to immediately make folks retreat to their corners where no constructive dialog can be made. Ultimately your goal is to sway more people to your side, right? The most effective way to do that is to engage with them rather than use what is traditionally considered offensive language in an attempt to get their attention.
In short, my general view is that the best, and really only, way to preserve democracy is to support its institutions. Those same institutions that told Trump “no” when he tried to falsely claim he won the 2020 election. I know they’re not perfect, but tearing down those institutions instead of reforming and strengthening them is not the way to preserve a democracy in times of trouble. Call me naive and idealistic, maybe I am, but at the end of the day governments are based on the faith of the people that live under them. I have to maintain my faith in America’s democratic institutions because without that faith they crumble and die which is exactly what neither of us want to see happen.
We’re totally on the same page. I get carried away because I’m so angry about the current state of affairs, and how helpless I feel to change them. Thank you for being so thoughtful and rational. We need more people like you.
That’s a false equivalency. Gay sex is an act between consenting adults. I’ll copy what I wrote in another comment in this thread on the issue of blocking a highway:
In the case of this road thing, my concern stems from people, at night, flooding onto a highway. There’s a good chance multiple people are hit, and killed at those speeds, possibly involving multiple vehicles, maybe a semi-truck. Even the drivers of the cars could be hit by other cars and hurt themselves. Short of that, you have the psychological toll to live with of having accidentally killed someone. It’s really just a bad idea all around on top of not being an effective protest method. For those reasons, I do believe the police acted appropriately to show up, and arrest the people doing it.
There is no one stopping you from protesting peacefully and without public disruption (like blocking roads) just as people in decades past did. What the people did in this video was clearly illegal and the police were correct to arrest those responsible. That’s not defending “the police state,” it’s recognizing that a group of people were doing something clearly illegal and being arrested for it accordingly without, from what I can tell form the video, excessive use of force.
Lawlessness is not the answer. That includes blocking highways, assaulting the US Capitol, whatever. These are matters for the courts to decide based on rule of law. Which by the way, in this situation threw out every single one of Trump’s challenges to the election. You’re allowed to be jaded, but don’t confuse that with throwing out the entire system instead of attempting to fix its ills in a constructive way.
But sure, call me a “chode” for having a nuanced take on something and understanding that the world is not black and white. Insulting people is a wonderful way to sway opinion. Let’s turn down the toxicity here.
The courts are corrupt, you joker. At the end of the day, big cases go to the supreme court, which is stocked full of completely corrupt people (and you know this!). Your “nuance” is part of the reason we are here, having to take drastic action.
You are blind if you think that peaceful, government-condoned protests will change a fucking thing.
This isn’t the 1960’s. Those in charge have learned from those lessons. Drastic change is not peaceful, but it is exactly what we need. Protest SHOULD be disruptive, like strikes, which actually affect change! While those protesting (actual patriots, take notes) are risking their lives (literally), you’re slightly inconvenienced. Fuck off.
I’d take anarchy over the goddamn passive bullshit you’re spewing any day of the week, and I’m not alone. Trump will not be president again; not in my lifetime.
Sure, strike all you want. That’s not putting yourself and drivers on a highway in danger. Or shining a laser into a helicopter blinding the pilot while flying over a populated area. Indeed these people are risking their lives, but also putting other’s lives at risk too, especially when doing this stunt at night in the middle of an active highway. It’s not just a slight inconvenience, it’s stupid, misplaced, and irresponsible.
But alright my man, if that’s how you feel so be it, it’s your prerogative to be angry and call the people that would otherwise support your cause a “chode” and telling them to “fuck off” multiple times. The reason we’re in this situation is because of the anger and extremism. You know, I used to have a harder line on all of this stuff too, but after spending time having real conversations with people I disagreed with came around to realize that internet discourse is pure sensationalism and doesn’t reflect the real world. If we could turn down the volume then this extremism on both sides would not be necessary. Fighting fire with fire is always a losing game for both sides.
If you’d be willing to have an open mind for 15 minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVV2Zk88beY
Anyway, I’m out. I came to this community for tech privacy issues, but it’s quickly turning into conspiracy and political theater so I unjoined it entirely. Take care.
It is infuriating to watch people, rational people, turn a blind eye to this sort of thing. I will watch your video, and I apologize for hurting your feelings. Calling people “fuckers”, “chodes”, etc. is part of my vernacular, as with many others of my generation; you shouldn’t take it so hard. The point isn’t to degrade you, but to snap your attention.
I think you are being absurd, because our democracy is in critical danger, and you’re worried about a road. I agree that shining a laser at planes is dangerous. If you had ever been manhandled by cops, you’d understand that they’re really, really dangerous, too. I have no sympathy for cops (did you see the people they tried to horse over?). They’re dangerous, and honestly, the most dangerous part about being in jail IS the cops (having been there myself on several occasions).
You have your opinion, which unfortunately sounds founded on a life of privilege. Don’t worry, passive citizen, we won’t let them ruin the country—neither corrupt politicians or dirty, scummy cops. Sit back and enjoy the benefits we’ll give you, regardless of your inability (read: unwillingness) to help.
I know I said I was out, but I wanted to say thanks for a thoughtful reply. I’m always happy to have discourse without vitriol so I’ll add some more thoughts here.
For the record, I’m not at all downplaying the corruption and illegality of the Trump administration. I wholeheartedly support the current criminal court cases going against him and, while I believe all defendants are innocent until proven guilty (doing otherwise would be to turn our backs on one of the tenants of a functioning democracy), I do hope to see him convicted of his crimes once proven in a court of law. I could write a lot more here, but I think we’re basically on the same page with this so I’ll spare the full sermon on the dangers of MAGAism.
In the case of this road thing, my concern stems from people, at night, flooding onto a highway. There’s a good chance multiple people are hit, and killed at those speeds, possibly involving multiple vehicles, maybe a semi-truck. Even the drivers of the cars could be hit by other cars and hurt themselves. Short of that, you have the psychological toll to live with of having accidentally killed someone. It’s really just a bad idea all around on top of not being an effective protest method. For those reasons, I do believe the police acted appropriately to show up, and arrest the people doing it.
On the topic of police, in general this is a difficult topic for me that I honestly don’t really feel qualified to speak on generally so I typically stay silent on it. That’s not because of an unwillingness to help but because I don’t believe in speaking on topics that I don’t feel qualified to speak on. You’re right that I’ve never had bad experiences with police to the point that I felt their actions were unethical or illegal. In fact, in my life I’ve personally known a handful of police officers and each one of them I found to be ethical people who wanted to live peaceful lives and do the right thing with their job. But I also recognize there are many instances of problematic (to put it lightly) policing and have seen many instances in the news demonstrating that. I also recognize that, in general, humans in positions of power tend to abuse that power. That’s why civilian oversight and accountability of police is paramount. That’s something that’s clearly lacking currently given the strength of police unions, as one example. Overall, I think it’s a system that needs reform, but I wouldn’t go so far as to throw out the whole system because what would it be replaced with? You can’t have a society without some way to enforce laws (like enforcing illegal and dangerous protests), but you also can’t have a police state. That’s what I mean by there’s a difficult nuance here, but I also recognize that I don’t know what that is and why I’m hesitant to even type this up right now. That’s also not to diminish your experiences, I’m sure they’re just as valid as mine, likely moreso given your experiences and my comparative lack thereof. I’d be happy to learn more about them if you want to share.
I’ve been on the internet for long enough to have been called much worse names many times before, I have a pretty thick skin at this point (see the other person on this thread telling me how I’m a fucktard and no one likes me, again, as if that’s going to accomplish anything). My point here was though that text based communication carries a negativity bias with it. In that we tend to assume bad intent and starting with language like that only serves to immediately make folks retreat to their corners where no constructive dialog can be made. Ultimately your goal is to sway more people to your side, right? The most effective way to do that is to engage with them rather than use what is traditionally considered offensive language in an attempt to get their attention.
In short, my general view is that the best, and really only, way to preserve democracy is to support its institutions. Those same institutions that told Trump “no” when he tried to falsely claim he won the 2020 election. I know they’re not perfect, but tearing down those institutions instead of reforming and strengthening them is not the way to preserve a democracy in times of trouble. Call me naive and idealistic, maybe I am, but at the end of the day governments are based on the faith of the people that live under them. I have to maintain my faith in America’s democratic institutions because without that faith they crumble and die which is exactly what neither of us want to see happen.
I really appreciate your response—thanks!
We’re totally on the same page. I get carried away because I’m so angry about the current state of affairs, and how helpless I feel to change them. Thank you for being so thoughtful and rational. We need more people like you.
I still don’t like you.
That’s alright, I still like you.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=bVV2Zk88beY
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Dude, you’re a fucktard. Nothing you’ve said has any sense behind it. Have fun being on Lemmy. No here one likes you.
Gay sex used to be illegal. Do you think people shouldn’t have been doing it?
That’s a false equivalency. Gay sex is an act between consenting adults. I’ll copy what I wrote in another comment in this thread on the issue of blocking a highway:
You cannot fix a system that is working as intended.