Maybe also got some growth from other communists on fedi seeing us and joining ig
Idk, I’m just not built for dunking ig
o7 to all of you who’ve gone through the effort to write big explanations of stuff for passing liberals to see though
Maybe also got some growth from other communists on fedi seeing us and joining ig
Idk, I’m just not built for dunking ig
o7 to all of you who’ve gone through the effort to write big explanations of stuff for passing liberals to see though
I saw a lot of civil people that got “dunked on”, both in here and by hexbear users in other instances
I think there is a point to arguing with unreasonable people in the internet, because other people are watching, and if you are the one remaining calm when another person is being unreasonably mean or denigrating it gives a convincing aura and vibe. Of course it’s not really pleasant to do though I do understand that
Being civil isn’t the issue. Participating with intent to actually listen and learn is.
This is exactly the point I am making. You think we should respond nicely to people who are NOT participating in good faith, just because they’re being “”““civil””“”. I’m not wasting my fucking time with people who clearly aren’t open to hearing what I have to say. There are people who ARE open to hearing what I have to say and they get a genuine response, with sources, and a conversation, and things are learned.
Libs can’t tell the difference between each other and the literal actual fascists around them and it’s infuriating. Which comes from incredible levels of political illiteracy and deferring all of their opinions and political education to media owned by billionaires.
No that is not what I’m saying… I’m actually talking about being nice to people not civil at all. If your aim is to convince, its useful to be calm and respectful regardless of how rude or disingenuous the other person is, because in the internet other people may be watching the debate and that way of behaving is a lot more convincing than if you’re rude in return. Bad faith isn’t the same as rude, though they often happen at the same time…
Please calm down, I wasn’t telling you to do anything… I even said that it’s not a pleasant thing to do. Just that convincing-wise it’s better in my experience, but it’s okay and understandable if you don’t want to bother. I’d still disengage with the bad faith person instead of being snarky to them though. You yourself admit people are more swayed by flavour and attitudes than anything in debates so having a bad attitude will just at best make you two look bad
Mate fuck off yeah? You see a single swear word and tell me to calm down like I’ve just committed a sin. I grew up in squats this is how I talk. I am not changing the way I speak in order to appeal to middle-class people from privileged backgrounds. This over-reaction to the way different people speak and the demand that people speak with very specific white kkkracka middle-income mannerisms is just classism.
Listen to the content of what people say. Not the tone in which they say it. Stop tone policing people. All it does is shut everyone out of conversation that doesn’t come from a very particular white suburban upbringing.
No you see, that’s what I don’t admit. I firmly believe that being harsh with the libs that won’t open up is an effective tool, it makes them uncomfortable, and by making them uncomfortable they eventually change in search of a new comfort zone.
Liberals entire thing is “uphold the status quo”. This is the position of pretty much every single politically illiterate liberal who really doesn’t understand what any ideology actually is. They change their shape in order to fit themselves into whatever the existing social paradigm is.
This is why LGBT people got absolutely nowhere with liberals until they literally bullied them with riots and pride parades saying a big visible fuck you to everyone that ever tried to make them invisible. They could not be asked to change they had to be bullied and forced. Once the social paradigm is changed they then accept it.
This is why anger and cancelling on twitter became a thing. It bullied liberals into new social paradigms.
This is why it works for dirtbag leftists.
And this is why they picked up guns and shot at whoever the nazis told them to shoot at. Not because they were true believers. But because mussolini or hitler and every other fascist simply bullies them into a new social paradigm… and once the paradigm is changed they accept it.
Liberals are absorbomorphs. Their ideology is absorbomorphism.
Bullying works.
Well said.
I thought you were getting angry at me so I tried to defuse the situation, I’m very bad at reading people so I’m sorry if I thought wrong. I didn’t demand anything from you I just asked.
What you’re saying makes sense I suppose I’ve just never seen that happen with someone else. In my experience being a mean bully just gives people a reason to dismiss you without having to engage with you…
Don’t try to defuse situations by telling people to “calm down” it will 100% of the time escalate the situation.
You’ve seen it happen. Gamers used to tell everyone they were gonna rape them, liberals all used to be transphobic (ask any trans person what engaging anywhere on reddit used to be like), lgbt people in general used to receive hate from everyone libs included, etc etc. All these changes did not come from convincing people nicely, they came from forcefully creating a new social paradigm and demanding people to accept it. People can either be uncomfortable, or they can change in order to find comfort. This is what people do.
When it comes to engaging with people regarding ideology such as socialism, this has to be viewed in a hollistic way. There is absolutely 0% chance I can convince the shithead who is gish galloping the usual 30 different propaganda points about the soviet union, stalin, blah blah blah, into engaging with me in good faith. It just can’t be done. Whether they’re being “civil” or not. Making interactions with these people unenjoyable and uncomfortable for them has the potential to make them change the way they interact with the next socialist they come across. It has the potential to make them act differently because they don’t want that uncomfortable experience again. None of our interactions exist in a vacuum, I am not the only socialist you will ever interact with, you will meet hundreds more during the course of our lives, and that future interaction will include decisions you make based on this interaction. A horrible interaction one time gives way to a more positive interaction next time, where that person says “wow I wish someone were as civil about it as you are, last time I got really abusive people” completely ignoring the fact they were being a dick and there was no reason to waste much time/effort on them.
This is the crux of why bullying works. And also why a broad range of tactics is beneficial to the movement.
I’ll try to. I’m really bad at reading by myself, so talking to people is the way I normally learn about things and understand them, it just sucks that I’m bad at talking to people too :'D
I understand more, though I still think most people will just not want to hear a socialist again rather than try to be different next time they decide to. But it’s true that major cultural shifts in things are enforced. Honestly I didn’t really notice before you said it to me.
I think you read swearing as yelling when it’s a different register as often as it is a different tone.