We’ve got one cat 6months and the other 3months old, currently both using the litterbox. However we’re going to move to a new house soon, and eventually try to transition them to getting used to doing their business outdoors instead of the litterbox. Does anyone have any tips or best practices for this transition?
Edit: I dont live in the US, I live in Scandinavia - huge garden and away from traffic. The cats are fine being outside - most cats here are in fact outside. We have norwegian forest cats and they’re meant to be both indoors and outdoors - even during winter!
Pet cats that are allowed to roam outdoors are extremely destructive to local wildlife and live shorter lives. Cat should only be kept as indoor pets.
https://www.americanhumane.org/fact-sheet/indoor-cats-vs-outdoor-cats/
People too. Lemmeenym should be kept inside at all times. That way they can’t destroy their environment and will live a longer life. I’m sure confinement will have no deleterious mental effects.
I agree that cats should probably be inside for environmental reasons, but I don’t care if cats live somewhat shorter lives if they are outside, because they are obviously very happy when they can go outside.
Our cat is pretty depressed during the winter months because she can’t go outside (well, she can if she wants but she rarely is because it’s very cold and often snowy), so she just goes around meowing at shit because she is bored. During summer she is outside a lot and is noticeably happier.
The same applies to humans.
And it’s not like we live next to a highway like seemingly all Americans are, we have lots of outside cats in the neighborhood and they have been doing absolutely fine for many many years.
I’m just gonna leave this here
Shorter lives? My first cat became 17 years old before she passed away. Of course cats can live outdoors, especially here in Scandiavia, the majority of cats cats live outdoors.
Okay, if not for your own cat’s safety then do it for the good of the environment.
House cats are non-native species who are subsidized by humans feeding them. Thus they can kill purely for pleasure and often do. Every year, house cats kill billions of birds (and rodents) and it’s an ecological nightmare that is putting massive pressure on wildlife.
Please, just don’t do it. It’s unnecessary. You can create a stimulating environment inside and if you cannot then you shouldn’t get a cat.
You have to be a human to ruin biodiversity, it’s a known fact.
Norwegian forest cats are meant to be outdoors throughout the year even. Forcing these cats to stay indoors is considered animal abuse here. I’m not going to do that. While they do hunt sometimes, they also help get rid of rats and other pesty things… So they’re not all that bad…
Even the people we got these cats from refused to give them away to people who would keep them indoors only. It’s much like people who get Huskies while only keeping them in as pets in cities. They’re not meant for that. These cats are outdoor animals like many other, wether you like it or not.
Just because it’s cultural doesn’t mean it’s not problematic. Ignore the issues if you want, it doesn’t make them go away.
I believe it to be different for us, Norway is extremely rich on wildlife. These cats are meant to be outdoors, and have for a long time, and is likely to stay that way for generations. It’s fraud upon keeping cats indoors here.
If they’re meant to be outdoors then don’t feed and shelter them. That’s giving them an unfair competitive advantage against both their prey and other predators. Every rodent a house cat kills is a rodent that another predator doesn’t get. It leads to overpopulation and the eradication of their natural prey. In nature, if a predator’s prey is over-hunted without human intervention, then predators die off and the populations correct themselves (predators die off or move until the equilibrium is reached again). This cannot happen if you feed the animals when food becomes scarce and heal them (veterinarian) when they are injured. You are interceding in natural processes.
If it’s animal abuse then it’s very simple: don’t get the animal. No one is forcing you to get a cat (or Husky). If you can’t care for an animal responsibly then don’t get one at all. If you find one in the wild don’t interact with it, and let it be wild - don’t further damage the environment (more than we already have) so you can pet a cat once in a while.
I realize you aren’t going to change your mind, you seem pretty dug in. So I implore you to at least ensure the animal is spayed or neutered, and to consider not getting a new cat once the current one has passed on. Please, it’s just better for everyone involved.
Wow… How thoughtful…
Norwegian Forest cat is the most normal cat breed there is here. If this had been as big of a problem you mention it would have been in our news already. These cats came here in the Vikings era, it would have been a noticeable problem by now…
Yes all my cats are neutered at the age of 6months or so.
And again, this cat breed is a very normal breed here. Even if I were to not get another doesn’t mean the rest of Norway isn’t.
Okay, so your arguments are:
- I haven’t heard it’s a problem, so it must not be
- The breed is common and people aren’t going to stop getting them so I may as well get another
(1) Is, hopefully, very obviously subjective. Just because you haven’t seen a news article about it does not mean it’s a problem. And unfortunately, being a couple thousand years old does not come close to the massive amount of time it took the ecosystems to get this way. By Earth’s history standards, these cats have been there for a blink of an eye.
(2) Is never a good excuse to do anything. It’s group think and it’s a massive problem in society. I may as well justify owning slaves because “other people aren’t going to stop”. You surely see how nothing will change if everyone thinks that way.
I’m very glad to gear you neuter the cat at least. It’s at least helping combat the issue a bit.
I just want to make the world a better place, that’s all. I’m not trying to attack or shame you, I just want to save the birds (and cats) :(
I didnt mean to come across cross… but my main point is that these cats are meant to be outdoors, as well as indoors. They love the mixture between being active outside and resting inside. I can’t keep these cats indoors only - thats not what they want nor what the vet recommends. I do see the problem of them ruining other wildlife, however, I can’t limit them to being indoors either. I love birds and wildlife myself, and at the cabin we have loooads of bird feeders and bird boxes setup, which is a very enjoyable sight all-year round. While I do, and will continue to let my cats outdoors, I try do my part for a better wildlife other places. Not perfect, but something.
Classic case of US defaultism. OP, your cats will naturally adjust to doing it outdoors, but best to keep a litter box inside too.
https://academic.oup.com/jel/article/32/3/391/5640440
https://besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1365-2656.13745
Roaming domestic cats are a global problem.
Then keep your cat indoors and don’t shove your opinions down others throats? Especially when it’s completely irrelevant to what OP is asking
You don’t think information about the effects of free roaming cats is relevant to a question about transitioning cats to outdoor roaming?
They asked for tips or best practices, not on subsequent effects.
"What’s the best way to take heroin. " “Don’t do heroin” “They asked for tips or best practices, not on subsequent effects”
With clean needles, test shots, and not sharing any of your gear.
Make sure you always do a small sniff or shot of a new bag, know your sources but don’t trust them.
The y to have someone around with Narcan just in case.
It’s called harm reduction
Right, other countries don’t have cars. Actually with your intellect it’s probably still horse and cart by you.
ITT - tons of evidence that letting cats outside is harmful in many ways.
OP - shrug
Literally 90% of cats in Norway live and enjoy being outdoors. If it had been a major problem the government would have said something about it. In fact, it’s looked bad upon keeping cats indoors here.
Your government knows it’s a problem but doesn’t care.
"A report by the Norwegian Ornithological Association (NOF) from 2018 states that there were about 770,000 cats in Norway in 2016, and that these together kill circa 7 million birds each year. "
So you would rather they cull the cats i take it? The cats have been around since 1000AD per the Wiki article. Sounds to me like at this point they are a native species.
Id understand if you were advocating for laws similar to how wolves/deer are treated. Yes keeping populations in check is important… Though it sounds like you would rather kill all the now “Native” cats.
There is no need to kill the cats.
Spay and neutering feral cats has become the cultural norm among environmentally conscious youth.
But the problem isn’t true feral cats. The problem is pet owners who allow their cats to be outdoor cats. Pet cats aren’t subject to normal predator/prey population constraints. They are fed at home and will then kill all native small fauna beyond natural recovery. Because after all small fauna is gone, the cats go inside to eat as much as they want. The environment can never achieve a natural balance.
An what if the native cats are the same as the house cats? Are you still saying its better to just not have a cat at all? Even if your own cat is spayed and neutered, its better to keep it trapped inside a house all day?
Humans fucked up, over a few thousand years ago. I don’t understand why you think cats shout suffer today, for a mistake we made 1000s of years ago.
Also id like to point out that I agree with you. When it comes to America, or other countries where we can still correct our mistake. Picking on a country where its the societal norm doesn’t seem like the right place to start.
That the native cat is also a house cat is irrelevant to the problem. House cats destroy the ecosystem because they eat food you provide after they’ve depopulated the local environment. It doesn’t matter what breed they are.
Would you let your dog run completely free too? No boundaries, no leash, day or night?
A responsible cat owner can let their cat outside but do it supervised.
And if you are not getting your cat from a shelter, you are perpetuating the problem today. It’s not something from 1000 years ago if you bought from a breeder.
“My countrymen need a lot of this education I’m ignoring”
You better stay in your house, too. Use a home trainer for exercise. Consume media for distraction.
Maybe you can crack a window once in a while when the weather is nice.
It’s dangerous out there.Maybe you do, but I don’t personally go on bird, rodent, and reptile murder sprees when I leave my house so I should be okay.
So you’re vegan and don’t drive a car? Cause otherwise you’re killing a hell of a lot more animals just for your pleasure and convenience.
bingo!
Well, me too. And I’ll only ever have cats that are from a shelter and sterilized. So I’m not increasing the number of cats by owning one. But I won’t lock up an animal either just for existing and living according to its nature.
You can let it outside but do it supervised.
Please don’t do this. You are seriously endangering them by letting them outside. I see too many that have been hit by cars.
I dont live near any trafficed road, and my house is at the end of a one-way-driven road. The only car getting my house is my own. In Scandinavia most cats live outdoors regardless of this, they are usually just fine.
They’re going to shit in your neighbors vegetable garden.
Source: neighbors cats shit all over my yardIn my experience, cats that can go outside will stop using the litterbox pretty quickly by themselves.
Just keep it around somewhere out of the way, as an emergency option.Always comes back to not wanting to clean a litter box. Laziness outweighs health hazards and ecological issues every time.
No cause we don’t want our cats dead.
what…? Cats dont die by being outdoors…?
That’s true, they die from getting run over by trucks and cars and from predators.
Good I don’t live in near any traffic then 👍
They die more if they’re let outdoors. Statistically, outdoor cats have half a life expectancy of 2-5 years, vs 12-20 of indoor-only cats.
We’ve owned rural homes a couple of times. One time, we owned a house on 5 acres at the end of a dirt-and-gravel road a half mile from the nearest paved road. On the other side of our neighbor’s house was a culvert, with an easement - a dirt “road” - that the irrigation company inspectors would use about once a month or so to check the state of the culvert. We were one of three houses at the end of that dead-end gravel road. At the time, (in the late 90’s) we had cats we’d let out during the day and bring in at night. During the four years we lived there, we had one cat that was killed by being hit by one of the irrigation inspectors. That easement was used by one truck, once a month, and it killed our cat. We lost a second cat to coyotes; at least the cat hit by the truck didn’t have the terrifying death of being torn apart by coyotes.
Maybe you’ll be lucky, and your cats won’t go into the roads. Maybe where you live you don’t have coyotes, or neighbors with dogs, or large owls. Maybe you’ll be lucky and your cats won’t meet any other cats and get infected with one of the exceedingly common diseases of feline leukemia, feline aids, or distemper. Maybe you don’t have neighbors who poison their pest mice and rats that your cats might find and eat and themselves die in agony from indirectly ingesting rat poison. Maybe you live somewhere without rabies (although I think it’s even gotten to the UK, now).
Maybe you don’t care if your cats get killed. But it you do care, keep your cats indoors. If you live somewhere rural, there are predators that can and will take a cat. If you live somewhere urban, it’s even more likely your cat will get killed by a car. And even if you have a perfect barrier that your cats won’t find a way over or under, it won’t stop poisoned rodents from getting into your yard where your cats can get at them, and your cats will get fleas and ticks and bring them into the house. Fleas are only a minor nuisance, sure; not a horrific, lingering death from rabies, and maybe you think you’ll use a flea dip - although keep in mind flea dips can give cats neurological diseases: it’s a poison that’s spread through their systems, and some cats react poorly to it.
But, again maybe you’ll get lucky. Maybe for you the inconvenience of cleaning a litter box is worth the risk of your cat being killed. If being inconvenienced is your motivation, may I recommend a Litter Robot. They’re pricey, but worth every penny, and they last for years. And you’ll almost certainly enjoy your cat’s company for many more years.
Mate, it sounds like you’re living on a different planet… I’ve had cats my whole life, all of them have lived out their full expected lifetime. I’m well aware of the possible dangers and sicknesses cats can get.
Based on the comments in this post I imagine pet culture being vastly different between Norway and the US.
Pet culture in the US was the same as Norway 40 years ago. Cats were primarily outdoor pets allowed to come and go as they pleased. The 1960’s cartoon the Flintstones showed Fred Flintstone throwing the cat outside at night in every episode during the end credits.
However the modern environmental science has proven the damage domestic cats have on the environment. As such there has been a cultural shift in the younger generations, without any government intervention, to keep cats indoors.
I’m not even talking about the controversy about cat impact on wildlife; I’m referring to the statistical life expectancy of outdoor cats in the US. If anyone isn’t satisfied with the one link I provided, I can find more: outdoor feline life expectancy is statistically drastically shorter than strictly indoor life expectancy. All I did was list the risks - the truth is in the statistics. But everyone who has that one outdoor cat that lived to 27 thinks their anecdotal experience trumps science 🙄.
I can’t speak to Norway. Maybe the feline diseases aren’t rampant there yet. Maybe the Norwegians have long ago exterminated all of their mid-range predators in populated areas. I doubt grandparent up there lives in a place where wolves are roaming around freely. You have coyotes or something similar there in your rural communities, my Norwegian friend from a couple comments up? Maybe the fact that few, if any, European countries have anything like the US car culture keeps streets safer for loose pets.
But in the US, letting cats outdoors statistically reduces their life expectancies. That’s not my opinion; it’s in the data.
I think you replied to the wrong person. I argued that pet cats should be kept indoors.
I do that occasionally; maybe it’s me, maybe it’s my client. But I also prefer to continue a thread, so I may have done it on purpose. In this case, though, I probably misunderstood you, and thought you were suggesting that the cultural shift was for silly activist reasons, and that it was better back in the good old days. Or that the only reason to keep cats indoors is because of the damage they do to wildlife.
Mea culpa
Yes, nature causes instant death for mammals. You didn’t know?
Cats are an invasive and detrimental species and should not be allowed to roam freely outside. Just because there’s some breed that originated from your country doesn’t negate the fact they are a non native species nearly everywhere and wreak havoc on the local population of small animals.
We’ve a few rescue cats - we got them all when they were about three / four years old. We kept them inside initially for six weeks or so, made sure that they’d got used to living in a new house before we let them outside.
The one which had been abandoned and had been living outside for a few weeks (a boy) stopped using his litter tray completely, as soon as he was allowed outside again.
The other two, both girls but a ‘smooth’ changeover, took a bit more time to get used to being outside. One transitioned off of her litter tray after a couple of months by herself; the other took more like four months, and she was a bit of a fair-weather pooper for a while as well.
My take-home message would be that cats generally prefer to do their business as far away from where they live as possible. Only possible bit of advice would be to wait until the weather’s getting better in case your cats dislike the wind and the rain. I believe forest cats love the frosty weather anyway, though?
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In Australia they kill feral cats by sniping them from helicopters
