No. Thats not how it works its marking a transaction as fraudulent not “undoing purchase” and no they aren’t allowed to cancel ongoing contacts when another one is unfulfilled or canceled. Thats not how it works at all. Idk where you got such info but its wrong.
And yes. If someone does a charge-back instead of a refund. Something that is intended for fraud. They are misusing it. Which is a clear breach, and it would not be surprising if you could get banned for that.
You think all German laws are EU laws?
Ubisoft deleted lots of accounts from people everywhere due to “inactivity”, even if you had paid games on it. I didn’t see a successful lawsuit from germans.
No but they are the laws i learned and are very close to ths EU guidelines. So companies usually comply with the German laws on EU level because its the biggest market and otherwise it would be a unnecessary clusterfuck. The other EU countries have basically the same laws as Germany when there is a EU guideline for it.
So i don’t think they are, but they literally kinda are.
Ubisoft deleted lots of accounts from people everywhere due to “inactivity”, even if you had paid games on it. I didn’t see a successful lawsuit from germans.
Thats their right, you have to show interest in keeping a contract running otherwise it can legally be canceled. Also, there is Noone suing because people that where effected either didn’t want the account anymore or just logged in once. Ubisoft send out emails and tried to notify people about this, they even extended the time frame once because to make it 100% legal proof. I don’t approve of that personally, but legally its perfectly fine.
I’ve heard of people refunding games or past purchases getting their accounts deactivated. For example, if your kid wracks up a $1,000 in Fortnite skins on PlayStation and you say “fuuuuck that, give me a refund because I’m not paying for that shit” they will most likely just ban your account.
The chargeback will get you your money back when you have a legitimate case. They are not legally allowed to stop you from doing a chargeback, they are allowed to no longer do business with you. This is actually what many companies will do if you chargeback.
Uh… No its 100% illegal to deny refund in EU (with some exceptions but digital goods dont fall under these) And charge back is for fraudulent/wrong transactions, so them not doing business with you may be ok in US but not in EU, it counts as regular failure to pay, its allowed to cancel the contract in question and only the one in question after sending a payment notice. So it isn’t possible to just cancel everything based on that, especially already completed and ongoing contracts. TOS can say many things but they don’t stand above the law.
And no they are also not allowed to not do business with you on that basis and they are not allowed to destroy already bought products/remotely disabled them.
I was actually very unsure which of you was right, but the best source I could find was this, and software on an online store is specifically exempted from the 14 day cooling off period.
I guess it would depend on whether remote deactivation would be considered a faulty product?
I think this would fall under a faulty product therefore 2 years warranty.
But most EU countries have stricter laws protecting the consumer even more, you linked the EU guideline wich is the minimum protection.
But in general, even online stores cannot refuse refunds all together (especially when the person buying something isn’t legally allowed to form contracts, as is the case with the 1k fortnight stuff). faulty products cannot be refused refund within 1 year unless the seller can proof it being the customers fault (wich is impossible when the seller basically remotely destroyed it…) and 1 year afterwards when the customer can proof it being the fault of the seller.
This is the German laws i had to learn some years ago. But it would be up to a court to decide that because Sony would fight, they fight everything and everyone.
I see the other argument about this, but allow me to give you my personal example of where I am regarding charge backs, banned accounts and Helldivers using the PSN.
I love Monster Hunter. Monster Hunter World first released as a console exclusive, and I had a second hand PS4. Not wanting to give Sony my credit card due to previous data leaks, I purchased a pre-paid PSN gift card and wanted to use it to purchase Monster Hunter. I dig through their labyrinth of a store, found the game, selected on it, and was looking for a way to pay using the pre-paid card. Unable to find it, I googled and discovered I had to back up to some account menu. Being a primarily Switch+PC player, I am used to right face button for confirm and bottom for cancel, so when I came back to the console I picked up the controller and pressed the bottom face button, “X”. Suddenly I had made a purchase using a credit card I didn’t even know they had. One hour-long conversation later, their support agreed to refund the purchase, walked me through removing the credit card from my account, I bought the game with the prepaid card, and all was well.
Later, I wanted to play online. Well, I don’t trust giving them my credit card after the last fiasco for certain, so I get my hands on a 12-month prepaid card for PSN. I add the card, hunt monsters online with my friends, no issues.
One year later, I get a notification: a ~$80 purchase from PlayStation was charged to my credit card. Uh, the fuck? So within 15 minutes, I am talking to their support, asking why in gods name they charged a credit card which I removed from the account for a purchase I didn’t request. It is explained to me that when you use a pre-paid card to get a subscription to PSN, the automatic renewal is turned on. I, of course, say, “sure, but you guys walked me through removing my credit card the last time I interacted with you and I used a prepaid card to intentionally avoid autorenewal”. Then, I am told that using a prepaid card turns on auto renewal with the last known payment method. I am shocked, demand a refund, am told that won’t be a problem, then about 5 minutes later am instead told that I’ve used my “one lifetime refund request on a purchase of Monster Hunter World”. There is more discussion and I explain that I will be getting my money back via charge back if they will not refund the unwanted purchase. They tell me my PSN account will be banned if I do that, so I restate, clearly, that I am receiving my money either way and they get to choose whether or not they have a customer after this conversation. I am politely and professionally told to fuck off, so I request the refund, and sure enough, my PSN account is banned.
Sony has, unfortunately, done nothing illegal by banning my account. The whole auto-renewal thing may set off some alarms in the EU, but here in North America, no one bats an eye.
Enter Helldivers. I see it requires a PSN account. I am concerned, but Steam has a gracious refund policy, so I purchase it. When I am met with the PSN account screen I consider: I could try my old account. It’s likely I’ll see a message about how this account can’t be used to play this game, possible that it’ll just work because the game doesn’t really use the PSN, and at worst, it’ll be permenantly bound with my Steam account, I will be banned and I’ll just refund the game. Not wanting to give Sony anything that resembles new information due to a combination of my previous experiences and their penchant for losing customer data in security breeches, I try my ~5 year banned account. It works, first try, without issue. I’ve played ever since.
Now, with this renewed discussion on PSN account linking, the whole narrative from the Dev side is “this is so we can manage bans across both platforms”. I am, obviously, concerned. Evidence suggests I am about to be retroactively banned from a game I purchased, have only used lawfully and ethically, and I will be long outside my refund window. I am waiting patiently to see how it all shakes out before I attempt a refund request via Steam.
Wait, refunding being a offense that can get you banned doesn’t sound legal at all.
Sony generally doesn’t allow refunds, meaning the only recourse is to issue a charge back. They’ll ban you for that.
Thats also not legal in EU.
Yes it is. A charge-back is you going to your bank, and making them “undo” the purchase.
A service is very much allowed to cancel your accounts if you do a charge-back.
No. Thats not how it works its marking a transaction as fraudulent not “undoing purchase” and no they aren’t allowed to cancel ongoing contacts when another one is unfulfilled or canceled. Thats not how it works at all. Idk where you got such info but its wrong.
Yeah ok. Buy a game. Do a chargeback. And it’s illegal for them to them ban your account?
Thats the opposite of what i explained and im 100% talking about EU (more specifically German) Laws
Its probably legal in muricaland, but not here.
And a charge back is for fraudulent charges. Not to “undo a purchase”.
And yes you having 10 games on a account and doing that with the 11th cannot legally destroy your 10 other games.
That’s not what I’m talking about either.
And yes. If someone does a charge-back instead of a refund. Something that is intended for fraud. They are misusing it. Which is a clear breach, and it would not be surprising if you could get banned for that.
You think all German laws are EU laws?
Ubisoft deleted lots of accounts from people everywhere due to “inactivity”, even if you had paid games on it. I didn’t see a successful lawsuit from germans.
No but they are the laws i learned and are very close to ths EU guidelines. So companies usually comply with the German laws on EU level because its the biggest market and otherwise it would be a unnecessary clusterfuck. The other EU countries have basically the same laws as Germany when there is a EU guideline for it.
So i don’t think they are, but they literally kinda are.
Ubisoft deleted lots of accounts from people everywhere due to “inactivity”, even if you had paid games on it. I didn’t see a successful lawsuit from germans.
Thats their right, you have to show interest in keeping a contract running otherwise it can legally be canceled. Also, there is Noone suing because people that where effected either didn’t want the account anymore or just logged in once. Ubisoft send out emails and tried to notify people about this, they even extended the time frame once because to make it 100% legal proof. I don’t approve of that personally, but legally its perfectly fine.
I’ve heard of people refunding games or past purchases getting their accounts deactivated. For example, if your kid wracks up a $1,000 in Fortnite skins on PlayStation and you say “fuuuuck that, give me a refund because I’m not paying for that shit” they will most likely just ban your account.
That sounds textbook illegally unless they refund everything
The chargeback will get you your money back when you have a legitimate case. They are not legally allowed to stop you from doing a chargeback, they are allowed to no longer do business with you. This is actually what many companies will do if you chargeback.
Uh… No its 100% illegal to deny refund in EU (with some exceptions but digital goods dont fall under these) And charge back is for fraudulent/wrong transactions, so them not doing business with you may be ok in US but not in EU, it counts as regular failure to pay, its allowed to cancel the contract in question and only the one in question after sending a payment notice. So it isn’t possible to just cancel everything based on that, especially already completed and ongoing contracts. TOS can say many things but they don’t stand above the law.
And no they are also not allowed to not do business with you on that basis and they are not allowed to destroy already bought products/remotely disabled them.
I was actually very unsure which of you was right, but the best source I could find was this, and software on an online store is specifically exempted from the 14 day cooling off period.
I guess it would depend on whether remote deactivation would be considered a faulty product?
I think this would fall under a faulty product therefore 2 years warranty.
But most EU countries have stricter laws protecting the consumer even more, you linked the EU guideline wich is the minimum protection.
But in general, even online stores cannot refuse refunds all together (especially when the person buying something isn’t legally allowed to form contracts, as is the case with the 1k fortnight stuff). faulty products cannot be refused refund within 1 year unless the seller can proof it being the customers fault (wich is impossible when the seller basically remotely destroyed it…) and 1 year afterwards when the customer can proof it being the fault of the seller.
This is the German laws i had to learn some years ago. But it would be up to a court to decide that because Sony would fight, they fight everything and everyone.
that is a chargeback, not a refund
Y’all sure are specific about your meme texts
Even though the marginal cost for Sony is as close to $0 as could be…
I see the other argument about this, but allow me to give you my personal example of where I am regarding charge backs, banned accounts and Helldivers using the PSN.
I love Monster Hunter. Monster Hunter World first released as a console exclusive, and I had a second hand PS4. Not wanting to give Sony my credit card due to previous data leaks, I purchased a pre-paid PSN gift card and wanted to use it to purchase Monster Hunter. I dig through their labyrinth of a store, found the game, selected on it, and was looking for a way to pay using the pre-paid card. Unable to find it, I googled and discovered I had to back up to some account menu. Being a primarily Switch+PC player, I am used to right face button for confirm and bottom for cancel, so when I came back to the console I picked up the controller and pressed the bottom face button, “X”. Suddenly I had made a purchase using a credit card I didn’t even know they had. One hour-long conversation later, their support agreed to refund the purchase, walked me through removing the credit card from my account, I bought the game with the prepaid card, and all was well.
Later, I wanted to play online. Well, I don’t trust giving them my credit card after the last fiasco for certain, so I get my hands on a 12-month prepaid card for PSN. I add the card, hunt monsters online with my friends, no issues.
One year later, I get a notification: a ~$80 purchase from PlayStation was charged to my credit card. Uh, the fuck? So within 15 minutes, I am talking to their support, asking why in gods name they charged a credit card which I removed from the account for a purchase I didn’t request. It is explained to me that when you use a pre-paid card to get a subscription to PSN, the automatic renewal is turned on. I, of course, say, “sure, but you guys walked me through removing my credit card the last time I interacted with you and I used a prepaid card to intentionally avoid autorenewal”. Then, I am told that using a prepaid card turns on auto renewal with the last known payment method. I am shocked, demand a refund, am told that won’t be a problem, then about 5 minutes later am instead told that I’ve used my “one lifetime refund request on a purchase of Monster Hunter World”. There is more discussion and I explain that I will be getting my money back via charge back if they will not refund the unwanted purchase. They tell me my PSN account will be banned if I do that, so I restate, clearly, that I am receiving my money either way and they get to choose whether or not they have a customer after this conversation. I am politely and professionally told to fuck off, so I request the refund, and sure enough, my PSN account is banned.
Sony has, unfortunately, done nothing illegal by banning my account. The whole auto-renewal thing may set off some alarms in the EU, but here in North America, no one bats an eye.
Enter Helldivers. I see it requires a PSN account. I am concerned, but Steam has a gracious refund policy, so I purchase it. When I am met with the PSN account screen I consider: I could try my old account. It’s likely I’ll see a message about how this account can’t be used to play this game, possible that it’ll just work because the game doesn’t really use the PSN, and at worst, it’ll be permenantly bound with my Steam account, I will be banned and I’ll just refund the game. Not wanting to give Sony anything that resembles new information due to a combination of my previous experiences and their penchant for losing customer data in security breeches, I try my ~5 year banned account. It works, first try, without issue. I’ve played ever since.
Now, with this renewed discussion on PSN account linking, the whole narrative from the Dev side is “this is so we can manage bans across both platforms”. I am, obviously, concerned. Evidence suggests I am about to be retroactively banned from a game I purchased, have only used lawfully and ethically, and I will be long outside my refund window. I am waiting patiently to see how it all shakes out before I attempt a refund request via Steam.
I think I’m just going to go play some Solitaire.
You’d better have an old Windows 7 installation drive, because as far as I’ve read around, Solitaire has ads and microtransactions now
No foss solitaire?Edit: No FOSSS?
Solitux? Tuxitaire?