In an apparent effort to boost revenues, gaming social media startup Discord plans to implement ads into its free service. The step is expected in the coming days after 9 years of ad-free experience.
I don’t think people on this sub use it, but it’s great news for us. The worse it gets the likelier people move on.
One of the interesting features about Matrix is that it supports some degree of interoperability. The Beeper phone app, for all the fuss about its ill-fated attempts to bridge to iMessage, can connect to Discord for basic no-frills text chat.
I refuse to install Discord on my phone but use Beeper for DMs and group texting.
I hate this recommendation because Matrix is just a terrible user experience. It has basically nothing of value over Discord other than being open source. Which is important but it’s not enough to counteract the amount of basic quality of life stuff that is just absolutely trash garbage on Matrix. Stuff that no normal user is going to put up with.
If Discord does end up completely eviscerating itself the replacement will just be some new upstart closed Source program that is shiny just like how Discord took over from Slack it will not be the rise of Open Source because open source developers have no concept of user experience.
I mean we don’t even need to start talking about how bad all the client options are and how half the features don’t work and all that. You can look no further than the login system. Average users do not like want or accept having multiple options for logging in. There’s a reason that irc, teamspeak, mumble despite in many ways being objectively Superior especially in the case of the voice chats ended up relegated to only nerds like us. Because no one else is willing to deal with keeping track of servers to connect with or how to cross join or add users.
Same reason that Lemmy is like 90% technical users that are already invested in something like Linux. The average user got frustrated by how fragmented everything is how many duplicate channels and content you would find between instances and how difficult it was to search instances in the first place. I am here because I can ultimately work around those emoians, but the average person? Is not willing to and they shouldn’t have to
I’d love to be able to disagree in any of your points, but I can’t.
The vast majority of users want something that simply works, is polished and intuitively usable. Reading docs, remembering anything other than the bare minimum, running into issues that don’t get magically resolved within 5 minutes will turn them away forever.
Even people with a technical background will at least partially compromise and migrate towards the services with the most users to not isolate themselfs.
Matrix is neat, Lemmy is neat, Nextcloud is neat (well, in theory), Immich is neat, so many other privacy friendly solutions are neat. But they’ll always be irrelevant in the global context.
I mean with next cloud and immich it doesn’t really matter if they are popular. Those are services that you host for yourself for you to use generally by yourself.
Immich I could see someone using if they’re already familiar with Google photos, so long as someone else handled the setup and maintenance of it of course
Selfhosted services like Nextcloud/Immich aren’t nearly as dependent on a critical user mass like Discord/Matrix, but the principle is the same.
If you host for family or friends, they may even use it if you convince them to switch. But when the setup, which doesn’t consist of redundant instances and isn’t maintained by a small army of SysAdmins 24/7, inevitably breaks for longer than a few minutes, most will switch back to the easy, reliable option.
It is often sketchy. The search function doesn’t work properly. Loading older messages often makes your client spaz out. There’s several glitchy commands. Spamming snowflakes can slow down your client to a crawl. A friend once crashed Element on my phone using a lot of nested quotes with muscle emojis. We had to spam other stuff so I could open Element again because the moment those messages started loading my client crashed again, preventing me from even changing the channel so I could open my app again.
I use Element and Matrix because it is the best privacy-respecting option, but it has a long way to go.
I am a big fan of Matrix and glad to see it getting some attention in this post. But it is definitely a bit rougher around the edges and esoteric compared to Discord. For more technically-inclined people, it’s fine. But it’s a bit much for some people.
I’m no fan of Apple (and don’t want to divert discussion here), but part of their winning formula is ease of use.
It’s not even just the technical barriers. Lemmy has technical barriers and still works fine. Matrix is soooooo fucking SSSSSSLLLLLLOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW. A simple chat program that takes longer to load a channel than it takes for my aging PC to boot an AAA game is simply unusable. This is 2024, not 1994.
I just don’t get what you’re referring to when it comes to “not receiving messages while offline”. The only thing that comes to mind that does this by design is OTR, but that’s outdated anyway…
Someone else mentioned Revolt.chat higher in the thread and it seems to be a promising FOSS replacement for Discord. It’s looking to fix some of Matrix’s issues like not having voice channels (voice calls on Matrix aren’t the same)
I’m constantly looking for something that could replace discord for me, I need something like the discord screen/game streaming to consider changing apps.
I need something like the discord screen/gama streaming to consider changing apps.
I second this. It’s one of our most used features. Whether it’s streaming for team mates or for spectators there’s almost always 1 to 2 people streaming/watching.
Don’t get me wrong, I love matrix, but works like a charm is not how I would describe that. Element Just seems to make everything harder because you have to keep track of your session keys. That way if you have a new device and can’t use the previous device you don’t get locked out And then to top it off you have the export and import of end to end encrypted room keys which even for somebody like myself who is technical enough to manage it has managed to screw it up almost every time. I find something like session or SimpleX easier because you’re not having to manage keys like that. SimpleX has an actual database file export instead of key management and you need only remember the decryption key. Session of course uses session IDs with a neumonic seed phrase like crypto
Interesting concept! Element isnt my favorite client either but it has nothing to do with running or using matrix. Its like using an iphone and saying calling someone is very expensive.
I use fluffychat daily and it works well. The issue atm is that frequently changing devices, leaving and joining a lot of rooms can disrupt the experience. If you talk mostly on the same devices and in the same rooms there is no issue as far as I can tell.
As all FOSS software it needs work and people who want to put in that work. I wont help with element and synapse since the element folks want contributors to sign away their rights which I‘m not okay with.
Oh, I don’t blame you for that. I just feel like Matrix in general is rather complicated for normal people. I like simple x a lot because all the keys are just in a database and the database is encrypted instead of having to remember the keys and session obviously only needs the mnemonic seed for restoration. Like, I can manage a cryptocurrency wallet absolutely fine, but there are a number of different times that I have lost access to encrypted chats on Matrix due to not getting the key situation right.
Yeah, a lot of apps have interesting functions. Since matrix already has a lot of users and is somewhat integrated with the other services I‘ll stay with it.
I actually havent tried if screensharing works but jitsi seems to work very well in there. Even the german government uses it so I suppose it might be able to do that.
Looks like Discord will do a Reddit in the near future.
I recommend switching to Matrix.
the problem isn’t switching, the problem is making all the other people using It to switch too, not everyone cares about security or ads
There’s also privacy issues with Matrix:
Discord is also one (admittedly very lousy) company, while Matrix starts with the privacy issues and just gets worse
Edit x2: I can’t place a parenthesis to save my life
Go, change it! It’s open source.
Right after you promise to convince all their moneyed interests to accept those changes into the repositories they manage
i dont use it and im curious, what interests? i tought is was FOSS?
FOSS does not mean there are no business interests. Think about Mozilla Firefox, Postgres, RedHat, etc.
sure but they are usually more tamed. what is matrix doing exactly?
Shit takes time bro. We’re all trying not to starve to death here.
Yep most of the communities I like are on Discord nothing I can’t do.
most of the communities period are on discord
even the one that really have no business being in there and really should be on a forum
One of the interesting features about Matrix is that it supports some degree of interoperability. The Beeper phone app, for all the fuss about its ill-fated attempts to bridge to iMessage, can connect to Discord for basic no-frills text chat.
I refuse to install Discord on my phone but use Beeper for DMs and group texting.
I have happily succeeded. While there are some communities that are still on Discord, the vast majority of my friends are accessible on Matrix.
I hate this recommendation because Matrix is just a terrible user experience. It has basically nothing of value over Discord other than being open source. Which is important but it’s not enough to counteract the amount of basic quality of life stuff that is just absolutely trash garbage on Matrix. Stuff that no normal user is going to put up with.
If Discord does end up completely eviscerating itself the replacement will just be some new upstart closed Source program that is shiny just like how Discord took over from Slack it will not be the rise of Open Source because open source developers have no concept of user experience.
I mean we don’t even need to start talking about how bad all the client options are and how half the features don’t work and all that. You can look no further than the login system. Average users do not like want or accept having multiple options for logging in. There’s a reason that irc, teamspeak, mumble despite in many ways being objectively Superior especially in the case of the voice chats ended up relegated to only nerds like us. Because no one else is willing to deal with keeping track of servers to connect with or how to cross join or add users.
Same reason that Lemmy is like 90% technical users that are already invested in something like Linux. The average user got frustrated by how fragmented everything is how many duplicate channels and content you would find between instances and how difficult it was to search instances in the first place. I am here because I can ultimately work around those emoians, but the average person? Is not willing to and they shouldn’t have to
I’d love to be able to disagree in any of your points, but I can’t.
The vast majority of users want something that simply works, is polished and intuitively usable. Reading docs, remembering anything other than the bare minimum, running into issues that don’t get magically resolved within 5 minutes will turn them away forever.
Even people with a technical background will at least partially compromise and migrate towards the services with the most users to not isolate themselfs.
Matrix is neat, Lemmy is neat, Nextcloud is neat (well, in theory), Immich is neat, so many other privacy friendly solutions are neat. But they’ll always be irrelevant in the global context.
I mean with next cloud and immich it doesn’t really matter if they are popular. Those are services that you host for yourself for you to use generally by yourself.
Immich I could see someone using if they’re already familiar with Google photos, so long as someone else handled the setup and maintenance of it of course
Selfhosted services like Nextcloud/Immich aren’t nearly as dependent on a critical user mass like Discord/Matrix, but the principle is the same.
If you host for family or friends, they may even use it if you convince them to switch. But when the setup, which doesn’t consist of redundant instances and isn’t maintained by a small army of SysAdmins 24/7, inevitably breaks for longer than a few minutes, most will switch back to the easy, reliable option.
That’s exactly what matrix most popular client Element does.
It is often sketchy. The search function doesn’t work properly. Loading older messages often makes your client spaz out. There’s several glitchy commands. Spamming snowflakes can slow down your client to a crawl. A friend once crashed Element on my phone using a lot of nested quotes with muscle emojis. We had to spam other stuff so I could open Element again because the moment those messages started loading my client crashed again, preventing me from even changing the channel so I could open my app again.
I use Element and Matrix because it is the best privacy-respecting option, but it has a long way to go.
I am a big fan of Matrix and glad to see it getting some attention in this post. But it is definitely a bit rougher around the edges and esoteric compared to Discord. For more technically-inclined people, it’s fine. But it’s a bit much for some people.
I’m no fan of Apple (and don’t want to divert discussion here), but part of their winning formula is ease of use.
It’s not even just the technical barriers. Lemmy has technical barriers and still works fine. Matrix is soooooo fucking SSSSSSLLLLLLOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW. A simple chat program that takes longer to load a channel than it takes for my aging PC to boot an AAA game is simply unusable. This is 2024, not 1994.
That is why XMPP is still superior, both for hosting and usage.
2^32 different incompatible extensions for receiving images and an inability to receive messages when offline. Glorious.
Have you used this protocol at all? You CAN receive messages when offline, this is not IRC. And media uploads don’t seem to be such a problem.
Yes, I have. With various clients. It sucked.
I just don’t get what you’re referring to when it comes to “not receiving messages while offline”. The only thing that comes to mind that does this by design is OTR, but that’s outdated anyway…
Someone else mentioned Revolt.chat higher in the thread and it seems to be a promising FOSS replacement for Discord. It’s looking to fix some of Matrix’s issues like not having voice channels (voice calls on Matrix aren’t the same)
Heck agree. In my experience, IRC is a much better alternative.
Guilded already exists. It’s a Discord clone with more features, but no one uses it. I assume they are just waiting for Discord to fail one day.
It’s because is owned by Roblox.
I didn’t look into it much other than trying it out for 15 min. Good to know lol.
There is one huge thing of value in Matrix: e2ee.
Sadly, the normies don’t care about stuff like that, and the UX is indeed atrocious.
The thread is about discord adding ads in their platform, so much of user experience… there’s no such trash on matrix
You don’t need to be a technical user to use matrix you simply don’t have to be closed minded
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With how much they been cash grabbing, I’m not surprised.
If only I could convince 30 people I barely know to switch platforms.
The Discord server I spend the most time on is constantly looking for alternatives in case something better pops up or we need a backup.
I’m constantly looking for something that could replace discord for me, I need something like the discord screen/game streaming to consider changing apps.
I second this. It’s one of our most used features. Whether it’s streaming for team mates or for spectators there’s almost always 1 to 2 people streaming/watching.
Same. Matrix works like a charm.
Don’t get me wrong, I love matrix, but works like a charm is not how I would describe that. Element Just seems to make everything harder because you have to keep track of your session keys. That way if you have a new device and can’t use the previous device you don’t get locked out And then to top it off you have the export and import of end to end encrypted room keys which even for somebody like myself who is technical enough to manage it has managed to screw it up almost every time. I find something like session or SimpleX easier because you’re not having to manage keys like that. SimpleX has an actual database file export instead of key management and you need only remember the decryption key. Session of course uses session IDs with a neumonic seed phrase like crypto
Interesting concept! Element isnt my favorite client either but it has nothing to do with running or using matrix. Its like using an iphone and saying calling someone is very expensive.
The keys situation needs work though.
I havent found another client that really improves the situation though.
I use fluffychat daily and it works well. The issue atm is that frequently changing devices, leaving and joining a lot of rooms can disrupt the experience. If you talk mostly on the same devices and in the same rooms there is no issue as far as I can tell.
As all FOSS software it needs work and people who want to put in that work. I wont help with element and synapse since the element folks want contributors to sign away their rights which I‘m not okay with.
Oh, I don’t blame you for that. I just feel like Matrix in general is rather complicated for normal people. I like simple x a lot because all the keys are just in a database and the database is encrypted instead of having to remember the keys and session obviously only needs the mnemonic seed for restoration. Like, I can manage a cryptocurrency wallet absolutely fine, but there are a number of different times that I have lost access to encrypted chats on Matrix due to not getting the key situation right.
Yeah, a lot of apps have interesting functions. Since matrix already has a lot of users and is somewhat integrated with the other services I‘ll stay with it.
I use matrix daily, but i am fully aware that i could lose my chats and so its not my primary. That honor goes to Signal (well, actually molly).
You can just restore with your recovery key
If the server holds your room keys encrypted by your restore key, sure. But thats still a 3rd party holding your keys.
Not if you run your own instance 😁
True
Wow I can’t believe this software hasn’t been widely adopted yet
I will gladly leave this shithole called discord, as soon as matrix start to support screen sharing
I actually havent tried if screensharing works but jitsi seems to work very well in there. Even the german government uses it so I suppose it might be able to do that.
I know for a fact you can screen share in jitsi as I have seen it done.
In that case it should be no problem in matrix, assuming it uses a full version of jitsi.
There’s a huge difference between streaming games and streaming PowerPoint slideshows
Obviously, yes. Whats your point?
Telling Discord users to switch to Matrix because “it works like a charm” is incorrect, considering how Discord is used.
“It’s tolerable if you can put up with the low bit rate and high latency” is more accurate.
I frequently use Jitsi w/screensharing. Been using it for quite a while this way with good results.
Why can’t I click and drag rooms into the position I want them?
Ended up switching to alphabetical and numbering the rooms.
Good question. Have you checked if there is an issue for it on github? Thats how we improve FOSS software.
They already have
Pre IPO allocations were available two years ago.
Matrix is rough, but it can be the future. Revolt seemed more complete for the time being.