I have played the campaign of Diablo 4 - I did not have much expectation but I got bored fairly early in the game. With each new game, franchises are supposed to get better, but I am not sure that is the case with Diablo.
Here are all the points where I think D4 is actually worse than D1, even though it was released 27 years later
Variety of enemy in terms of gameplay
In D4, there are more or less 5 archetypes of enemies:
- melee who runs fast and chase you but are weak
- melee who walks slow and are more sturdy and hit harder
- ranged who does nothing but shoot
- ranged who circle strafes and shoots
- enemy spawner that you must usually kill first
Enemies end up having different bodies of course, but in essence that’s really all they give and you update your gameplay based on which of them you face.
In D1, there are many more:
- fallen ones who hit you then retreat when one of them dies
- skeletons that are almost “typical” melee except that they hesitate and don’t engage instantly
- bats that teleport to you when you hit them
- goats (melee or archers) that try their best to surround you by circling you
- scavengers and gargoyles that heal up (on carcass for scavengers) when you stop chasing them
- mages that teleport around and flash you if you get close
- balrogs that cast inferno, making it dangerous to escape (if you escape in the same direction as inferno you get a ton of damage) and tricky to beat
- vipers that can rush toward you and double strike you
In D1 there are so many enemies to get to know, you really need to change your playstyle based on the enemy you face (unless you are high level enough of course) which makes it all the more thrilling and interesting to play the game. In D4 I just played the same way for each enemy really, more or less.
Variety of dungeon layout
That one is easy. In D1 you have no idea where the stairs can be. Or where rooms are. You can find anything anywhere. The labyrinth can take endless shapes (well, up to 32 bits anyway). You are always hyped to enter a new level because you don’t know exactly what shape it’s going to be or how enemy packs will be organized. Sometimes you get a really nasty selection of enemy and you get a hard time. Some other times it’s a breeze. The randomness of enemy selection further increases the thrill of getting there.
In D4 almost all dungeons are : do something on the left of the dungeon. Do something on the right of the dungeon. Press on to the boss area. It’s boring and I think that’s part of why I just stopped doing side quests after a while.
Oh, I did forget one other possible thing to do in a dungeon: “Look at all clues in a room”. I’m not sure it has a place in a game like Diablo where it’s supposed to be hack’n’slash ; not hack, look around, and slash.
Difficulty progression
In D1 you get a progression wall at each new zone. Church is fairly easy albeit with difficulty spikes on Butcher and Leoric. Catacombs is where players start to struggle with all the goat men, nasty dogs ; vicious monsters start to get introduced. Caves is another ramp up in difficulty as you are forced to fight in a mostly open area with little cover and tons of elemental damage. Hell is the ultimate test, you need to single out most enemies to beat them (until you get strong enough at least).
In D4 it’s all… the same? I never got the impression “Wow that content is harder now”. All acts have been more of the same in difficulty. The only exception is the Capstone dungeon because I tried it at clvl 46 (I was too eager to ramp up the difficulty, I could not set myself to wait to clvl 50).
Character progression
Again, in D1 you do have strong character power spikes. Like getting that first tier 2 armor (changing your look). Or getting a good weapon. Or getting that nice +40% fire resistance ring. Such drops allows you to kill monsters more easily, and you do feel the difference!
In D4 it’s “Oh cool I have +3% crit damage” and it’s unnoticeable. The only noticeable effects are from legendary items (I only speak of the items you get through the campaign) but it’s not like a big power spike neither, it’s more like a cool gimmick. Also, you never really say “I used to have trouble killing these monsters and now it’s easy” because it’s always easy.
I keep hoping that one day, there will be a game that surpasses Diablo 1. But so far, D1 remains the best experience I ever had in the genre.
Have you actually played D1 recently? If not, you may be experiencing a serious case of “rose tinted glasses.” You’re remembering it far more fondly then it actually was.
I have! Many times. I am one of those who is not nostalgic with D1 simply because I did not finish it until late (the first time I seriously dived through it was 5 years ago).
Could you point out things that I said that are inaccurate or incorrect?
I wouldn’t dare say that the things you said are inaccurate or incorrect. Just that they’re more subjective opinions and perspectives than objective facts.
I could easily say that many of your pros were cons for me. Some of the enemies were just needlessly annoying. The difficulty progression felt janky at times and often like a huge grind. And there are tons of small QoL additions over the last two decades that weren’t present in the original. I don’t have to worry about gold taking up inventory space, for one.
But then again, I’m not asserting that Diablo 4 is objectively better. It’s a different game made for different hardware in a different time, by practically a different set of people, for a different audience. This isn’t '97, with 2 smaller companies making a novel pc game for the few of us fuckin nerds in a basement. It’s 2023, where gaming is far more mainstream, Blizzard is a freaking behemoth of a company catering to millions of people.
I’m just saying, the contexts are too different for a comparison to be functionally useful.
There have been tons of QoL additions for Diablo 1 as well, in terms of mods such as DevilutionX, Belzebub, Tchernobog etc. If you liked the original Diablo 1, you should give one of these new mods a go.
Entertainment isn’t usually functionally useful. Same goes for criticism which usually comes down to taste.
That being said, there are some options that are better than others. D1 is not better than D4. D4 isn’t excessively good compared to it’s contemporaries either. If lost ark wasn’t such a predatory pos is still be playing it over D4, for example.
Not OP, but I have recently played it and I agree with all of OP’s points
We’ve had 20 years of improvements, thank God for that. It’s the little things that shit me about D2, like having to load potions on your belt… like refilling those slots isn’t fun or engaging.
Ya didn’t d1 have like 10 abilities? And you could only use 1 or 2 at a time? It’s okay to move on. Not everything was better back when
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I played Diablo 4 until the end of the campaign, but after that, it became boring. The dungeons are repetitive, with everything looking the same. The dullest thing is the level scaling. Instead of having a sense of progression and being overpowered, every mob are at the same level as you. Additionally, the only effective way to play the game is to copy someone else’s build…
It doesn’t feel like a game made with love and passion but more like a mathematical formula that maximizes time played over enjoyment.
That game is pretty, but that’s pretty much it.
I feel like min maxing ruins it a lot. You don’t have to use someone else’s build. If I find a legendary aspect , I’ll try it and see how good it feels and it evolves over time. The game in part is the grind, the renown , etc. you have plenty of side quests, events , world bosses , etc. I feel like that’s Diablo that hasn’t even had it’s first season yet.
To add to trying new aspects… it becomes quite a chore to try new ones when you need to redo paragon boards and respec/re-aspect to fit it. Some aren’t as necessary as others but some require a full respec just to test. I think it could use a streamline to make testing new builds a bit easier.
Playing the game without any guides is pretty refreshing, ngl.
Yep, I’ve been enjoying it quite a lot. I don’t see much fun in eliminating 99% of the character development side of the game by just blindly following a build guide.
I have not been back to play D1 or D2 since the olden days but I know I played D2 a lot more. Great memories. I picked up D3 very late and played through once and lost interest - it just felt bland. When D2R came out I was excited for a min but after watching a few reviews decided to leave my nostalgia alone.
Now D4, I really wanted to wait to get it but I could not resist. My feelings echo yours and I struggled to even finish the story and I have not gone back yet. I played a lot of PoE over the years and the sense of progression with power, builds, and mechanics, you get from can be amazing. It has its rough edges but it has a satisfying payoff (up to a point). D4 has no payoff at almost any stage, at least for me. And according to my memory didn’t have the gameplay enjoyment of D2 and not close to PoE.
NO MICROTRANSACTIONS IN D1
The Act Man on YouTube did a review of the game and hit all the same points you did.
He explained Diablo 4 as being as big as an ocean (content wise), but as deep as a puddle. I think that is spot on.
Loved the game for the first 15 or so hours, but it’s getting kind of boring and many things seem like chores instead of fun gameplay.
Don’t get me wrong, I still think it’s a decent game, but for me it’s nowhere near D2(played mostly single player and easily my fav) and is the polar opposite of D1.
It is however, much better than D3. I hated that game. I put 3-4 hours into that game and just couldn’t do it anymore.
“as big as an ocean, but deep as a puddle” is becoming a meaningless cliche for me at this point. People just repeat it as an almost a standalone argument.
It especially doesn’t feel useful when comparing the various Diablo titles, when the first and second game have so little content to play it comparison. So you can easily describe them as “as big as a puddle, and as deep as a puddle” which I have a feeling people fans would disagree with reflexively.
That’s the point though. There is tons more content, but what little content was in Diablo 1 for comparison was very rich and deep. I agree, cliches mean nothing without context so I’ll gladly provide some.
An example of this is this: who’s Griswald?
I bet you instantly know who that is, some of his lines, and where he was and his story.
Now name one vendor in Diablo 4.
Now, I’m not saying Diablo 4 should be like Diablo 1, because that also wouldn’t work in 2023. But having tons of content seems to have been traded for depth. While I liked the story and feel in Diablo 4, besides about 4-5 characters in Diablo 4’s story at the beginning and at the end, most were forgettable.
It’s like Blizzard forgot why NPCs such as Deckard Cain and Griswald and places like Tristram are so iconic.
They forgot why grinding was fun in 1&2. Getting my ass kicked by the Butcher, Duriel, etc. early on… then going back and leveling a couple more times and getting some better gear to kick their ass was rewarding and fun. Made it all worth it.
Between that and stats you can’t feel in the game. Because everything scales with you, to me after you get your ultimate, you don’t feel your character get stronger.
To me, Diablo 4 is a good game worth playing but it’s not nearly as good as 1&2, and I won’t dump thousands of hours into it like I did with LOD. I can go back to LOD and it’s as fun as it was 20 years ago despite playing the same content over and over.
LOL, now I’m imagining what D4 would be like if it was just a copy/paste of D1’s content. Millions of players would be complaining that the game is only a few hours long and there’s no “end game”. :D
Right? Like I say obviously that wouldn’t work today either. Imagine how PACKED those levels would be.
I do wish however you didn’t have to be online to play, puts you at the mercy of the servers.
Nah, imagine how much better Diablo IV would be if the whole game was just that first town and the first dungeon, and you just ran it over and over again to get better gear.
The vendors were memorable in the early games because the games were so simple and straightforward there wasn’t anything else to them other than a handful of named NPCs.
And you haven’t really explained how the earlier games had more depth other than apparently fewer characters and more basic storylines equates to “depth”.
We played the crap out of those games back then because we were younger, games were worse, and there were vastly fewer games to play as alternatives.
Edit: Not to mention the Butcher being a poor example due to how many people get destroyed by him in a Diablo IV the first time they meet him. I know he got me real good.
Re: the vendors, that instantly made me think of Baldur’s Gate. There are lots of vendors! And I can remember some of them!
But…there’s the guy in the Friendly Arm Inn. And the cranky mage in the forest. The smith in Beregost. Names? Dialog? Well…I remember the party members better, TBH. You spend a lot less time interacting with any one vendor in BG than in Diablo 1.
tl;dr you make a good point about only having a handful of named NPCs.
For me, I always think of LoD as the high point of the series. I haven’t played 1 in forever, and don’t remember it very well. As I recall, it’s missing a lot of QoL improvements from 2, like running. Why do you prefer 1 to 2? I may need to go back to it.
Good question, I think both games are masterpieces each in their own way.
I personally prefer D1 because it’s more focused on tactical gameplay than D2. If you play it right you can tackle the whole game without drinking a lot of potions. D1 rewards both the “skill” of the player aka how good they are at the game, and also the character progression in itself. However D1 lacks a good endgame (although some fellas did engage in PvP fights and PvP tournaments). But there are mods out there that expand the challenge in interesting ways.
D2 is more focused around build and playstyle variety, character progression and trading. It does have a bit of tactical gameplay but it’s mostly common sense.
I think D1 is more single-player oriented where D2 is more multi-player oriented. I enjoyed a lot D2:R when it came out so I do like D2 too! I only place it below D1 because of personal taste.
Thanks for taking the time for the insightful response! It makes sense given your answer that I would like d2 better as I am much better at putting builds together than I am at playing the game skillfully. Still interested in going back to 1 though as I love the series.
If you are interested I highly suggest DevilutionX, it’s a modern engine for Diablo 1 with lots of modern features (like alt highlighting) and modern windows compatibility
I actually enjoyed D3 in that I found the problem with D2 was you’d get locked into a particular build given the way the skill tree worked and grinding got a little old. But in D3 you’d get some new items that would encourage you to experiment with different skills and tactics and that kept thing interesting. I guess in D4, you have more ability to maintain your fave build by bringing aspects along if you prefer to go that way, but I like experimenting.
I’ve been playing Diablo 1 on my Miyoo mini and I like it a lot. I’ve only played it and 3, and I honestly love the darker atmosphere in 1. I think you’re right all around.
Oh man go try 2 if you like the darker feel of d1. Still my favorite in the series.
Diablo 2 does everything that D1 does but a lot more of it.
Mostly agree, but there are some aspects of D1 that’s were gone from D2. I loved the permanent effect shrines in D1. I loved the more tactical gameplay with fewer enemies which are tougher, so positioning and kiting is much more important. I loved the more hardcore feeling of it, limited town portal capabilities so you really had to plan your dungeon trips. D2 just made all of that trivial.
I do love D2 and D2R, but for a lot of different reasons, like more loot, more build variety, more action, etc.
Have you tried D2 MedianXL? It…doesn’t make it any more like D1, but it’s totally rejuvenated D2 for me.
Damn. Now you’ve got me feeling nostalgic for D1. That came out when I was just a kid and I would watch my older brother play it. Then I eventually mustered up the courage to give it a shot and it scared the hell out of me lol.
I will never forget Tristram and the music and Declare Cain and Wirt and the Butcher.
I might have to pick that game up again.
I only played the beta, but the storyline, at least how it was paced in quests and side quests felt pretty decent for me. It’s a good looking, decently developed aRPG to me. Definitely keen on picking it up one day when it’s on sale. It’ll be around for the next decade so I’m not in a particular rush
I see you got your rose-tinted glasses grafted to your skin 😂
Diablo 4 had the most boring campaign of them all. The only time it was ever “hard” for me was because the dodge mechanic seems lazy and half assed. Its like they wanted to give the player more interaction, but just the most miniscule amount of interaction. So the old dodge mechanic is still there but now you have this cooldown every 5 seconds that just doesn’t feel like it cools down enough to be useful. I know theres a “capstone” lilith or whatever but her boss fight was so disappointing. It was the easiest “final boss” in a game I’ve played since Fable 2. Really disappointed in it. Felt like it was stripped down to use content in the seasonal stuff. It definitely is not stopping me from moving to Linux where I won’t be able to play it.
You’ll be able to play it just fine via Bottles or Lutris or similar wine tool.
I’ve been playing on steamdeck (which I think runs arch?) with Lutris.
Oh cool, ngl haven’t touched it since I beat the campaign. It was awfully boring to me unfortunately so I probably won’t bother with setting it up after the move.
I all honesty, I prefer D3 over D4. I find the D3 art style much better than D4s. Yes, D4 is miles ahead regarding textures, details and resolution. But the style itself is pretty boring. Mostly mud, dust and fire.
And concerning the gameplay, I played a sorc to level 60 and a rogue to level 20. And playing them feels like work while playing D3 you feel powerful.
Hilarious. After experiencing D3 a decade ago and after seeing what blizzard has done with overwatch, all the shit you guys are complaining about it’s clear I made a great decision to never give D4 the light of day.
I won’t say I saw all of this coming, but blizzard showed their hand a long time ago. Last quality game they made was WoW, which was shortly before they sold off to activision. Ever since their games have been dog shit.
I stopped playing blizzard games and I will never go back. D4 is validating to me.
I could tell the “original” team from blizzard made act 1, which was the beta, Activision bought them and the first thing that happens in act 2 was killing deckard Cain, I felt like that was writing on the wall. Acts 3 and 4 were so short as to be unmemorable.
Activision bought blizzard, goodbye battle. Net hello RMAH, goodbye cross game chat, hello Facebook integration.
I was so disappointed that I’d recommend d3 to my friends, and I paid a years WoW subscription to “get d3 for free”. I’m a bit upset with myself for never giving overwatch a chance, now that overwatch 2 has come out I feel like Activision took the 1 good IP they’d made since the acquisition and sent it to the cash cow fields.
I hope Microsoft doesn’t acquire them, for both their, and everyone else’s sake.
I remember D3 quickly devolving into me simply holding down the left mouse button until all the enemies were dead, then running forward, then repeat.
Maybe that’s on me for only trying the wizard class, but man. Talk about boring.
