It may find adoption in the third world by bourgeois states and those looking to bypass Amerikkkan restrictions (like Cuba and Venezuelan citizens under isolation forced by the U.S.), but that’s because there’s loopholes in legislation that won’t exist forever. The earth burning currency has no application for the first world, and it only has limited application for the third world because of the economic system that crypto will entrech even further. This isn’t a real solution to anything except making yourself rich off of systems that regular people don’t understand
I am an environmentalist but if you are implying bitcoin is bad because it consumes too much energy I suggest you read some of the articles about comparing it to current banking system.
Banks and capitalist businesses accelerate environmental damage despite overwhelming world public opinion being that scaling back and tackling climate change is really important, so no this isn’t a defense of banking and capital etc, I’m saying this is an especially terrible outgrowth of that. If you really think comparing banking and bitcoin’s energy use is possible, useful, or worth doing though, it’s not, because bitcoin money transaction stuff and all the money being pumped into it pushing up the total required computing exponentially is by the same freaks who take out trillions in naked shorts at the expense of actual material production or print most of the world’s fiat currency in the past two years so keep their shit afloat. Bitcoin is bad because it’s an extension of that terribleness and not an escape from it, even if it somehow wasn’t being used by speculative rich people it would just run into the same issues as real life capitalistic currencies and create a new different class based system.
“bourgeois states” what
Congress cannot pass any law that can stop the bitcoin protocol from allowing any transactions. It has the same use both in the first world and the third world the preservation of purchasing power also all cryptocurrencies do not use proof of work. Crypto has no bearing on any economic system. How is it making me rich if I don’t speculate with crypto and actually use it to purchase goods and services
It has the same use both in the first world and the third world
Correct. The use is speculation and scamming people out of their money. There is some secondary use to go around some sanctions, I’m sure the Russian oligarchs also appreciate that.
op says crypto can only be used by scammers and rich techbros so obviously providd evidence to the contrary to show that people do use it for empowerment people use the usd and all the major world currencies for horrible things too but no one with a brain would say they’re useless based on that
It’s just a techbro veil thrown over the same speculative assets that have been nothing but get rich quick schemes and contribute no real value or “freedom” for anybody.
It’s just a techbro veil thrown over the same speculative assets that have been nothing but get rich quick schemes and contribute no real value or “freedom” for anybody
Edge cases exist in everything, but when you google “crypto” do you get shitcoins and eventual pump and dumps or do you get information and a tool to liberate yourself somehow? You get the former. You can bring out any number of single cases where it’s benefited somebody in a way that lets them perform some task or create some value, but you know you’re being dishonest if you say that’s where the majority of money pumped into crypto goes or even where the majority of it’s usecases comes from.
Bourgeois states are those controlled by a bourgeois class, this is an umbrella term for all non-socialist countries. Also yes, the government of the United States could outlaw cryptocurrency and make adoption impossible for 99%, but they never will because it’s in their (rich people) interests. For you, a regular person, being able to send money using math and a year’s worth of car emissions has no real or tangible benefit for anything except maybe buying drugs. For a rich person, cryptocurrency is speculative assets that can be assigned arbitrary values and used to dodge taxes and cook books, make contracts last forever and when the terms become unfair say “oh well”.
What I’m saying is that the issues crypto enthusiasts say will be fixed won’t be fixed because the class politics in economy are not addressed by cryptocurrency. Crypto is just intangible assets that can be assigned arbitrary values and traded, which is called a speculative asset, and those have existed for a very long time and have revolutionized nothing. If crypto actually benefited regular people like you and me more than it benefited rich people it would have been killed in the cradle like anything genuinely liberatory in the 1st world.
There is no such thing as a socialist country even Cuba recognizes private property see their latest constitution.Who cares what the US government does it matters zero they cannot stop people from sending btc to each other even if they tried to slaugther everyone in zimbabwe and other repressive states they try to do exactly that just replace btc with usd and the people still refuse to use their national currencies and have you considered that I and other people don’t live in the US shocking I know but it’s true. Yeah it has tangible benefit I’m able to freely send currency to whomever I feel like for whatever purpose.You do realize rich people have dodged taxes for centuries and write unfair contracts , right? They don’t need crypto to do that and there’s nothing in this life that benefits only poor people nor is it relevant if it benefits rich people what does the guy in Nigeria who’s been blocked from the banking system because he protested against government repression care if some people speculate on the asset I sent him
There is no such thing as a socialist country even Cuba recognizes private property see their latest constitution
Oh damn I’ll let their communist party know, I guess when material conditions dictate that the socialist party at the helm of government should go one way in order to help development and help the people it’s bad, they should actually stick to idealism and keep doing the same thing over and over again until it all falls apart or something.
Also I think you’re maybe starting to get the gist of what I’m saying about crypto, when you’re older you might understand that it’s overall effect on society is bad and cringe.
Communism’s main differentiating factor is literally no private property so if a country is claiming to be communist but violates this basic property it’s clearly not communist and that’s revisionism. Don’t be condescending to anyone to anyone based on their age just because they don’t agree with you I will not change my opinion on something because people do bad things with it, it is completely irrelevant how other people misuse something.
Communism is unattainable in current society, there are no communist societies yet, and communist revolutions only put a communist party in charge of a country or region that still has to exist in the current world order. There are no communist nations, because nations arose primarily out of class struggle and a communist society would be one without class struggle, so no country, so there never will be a “communist nation”. We can only right now put a party in charge that understands and is guided by socialist theory and socialist principles, which is called AES (Actually existing socialism).
Revisionism is misunderstanding basic socialist theory like what you just typed
None of this is related to crypto anyway, you just don’t understand that new technologies will incentivize people to use them in specific ways, and these incentives in this case create an overall terrible effect on society that has already ruined lives and wastes precious labor and engineering talent. That’s why I’m saying you’re young, because it’s something you understand when you get old, and it’s not something I understood when I was young.
The incentives created by crypto lend itself to being used for bad things no matter the original intentions of anybody who makes any system or writes any code, the longer it’s allowed to exist as meme currency the more harm it will do to society at large. Any number of small stories of somebody actually being able to pay for a burger with only $100 of gas fees are massively outweighed by families losing their money because mom tried to get rich on a shitcoin because they’re poor and looking for any way to get out of their economic strife.
I’m not naive which is why I don’t believe in communism read this https://lemmy.ml/post/255553?scrollToComments=true and tell me if anything in that would make you want to live in China or any other country guided by a socialist party. THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF COMMUNISM IS TO CREATE A MARKETLESS, WAGELESS, CLASSLESS AND MONEYLESS SOCIETY WHERE THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION IS COLLECTIVELY OWNED. ALL COMMUNIST COUNTRIES LITERALLY STAGED VIOLENT REVOLUTIONS AND COMMIT MASSIVE HUMANS RIGHTS VIOLATIONS FOR THE PURPOSE OF CREATING THIS SOCIETY NO COUNTRY THAT HAS/HAD A COMMUNIST PARTY IN POWER HAS EVER EVEN COME SLIGHTLY CLOSE TO THIS IDEAL BUT INSTEAD HAVE BEEN/ARE STATES WHERE ALL THE MEANS OF PRODUCTIONS ARE OWNED BY THE STATE AND ANY BUSINESSES THAT ARE ALLOWED BASED ON THE GRACES OF THE PART, WITH LAND BEING EXPROPRIATED BY THE STATE FOR BASICALLY FREE TO SELL TO MULTINATIONAL CORPORATIONS, RULE BY DECREE INSTEAD OF RULE LAW, HUGE AMOUNTS OF BUREAUCRACY, NO RIGHT TO UNIONIZE AND NO PRIVACY ETC “ACTUAL EXISTING SOCIALISM” DOESN’T RESEMBLE ANY WRITINGS OF ANY MARXISTS ECONOMISTS AND IS INFINITELY WORSE THAN ANY CAPITALIST STATE IT PURPORTS TO BE MORE FAIR THAN EVEN STATES WITH THEIR CITIZENS LEAVING IN DROVES FOR LITERALLY ANY OTHER STATE. I GIVE ZERO FUCKS HOW SOMEONE USES A PARTICULAR TECHNOLOGY IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO SEEK OUT THE NECESSARY INFORMATION TO UTILIZE ANY PARTICULAR TECHNOLOGY AND ANY FAILURE TO DO IS A REFLECTION OF YOUR PERSONAL INEPTITUDE AND NOT A FAILING OF THAT PARTICULAR TECHNOLOGY
It may find adoption in the third world by bourgeois states and those looking to bypass Amerikkkan restrictions (like Cuba and Venezuelan citizens under isolation forced by the U.S.), but that’s because there’s loopholes in legislation that won’t exist forever. The earth burning currency has no application for the first world, and it only has limited application for the third world because of the economic system that crypto will entrech even further. This isn’t a real solution to anything except making yourself rich off of systems that regular people don’t understand
lol
What do you mean by ?
I am an environmentalist but if you are implying bitcoin is bad because it consumes too much energy I suggest you read some of the articles about comparing it to current banking system.
Banks and capitalist businesses accelerate environmental damage despite overwhelming world public opinion being that scaling back and tackling climate change is really important, so no this isn’t a defense of banking and capital etc, I’m saying this is an especially terrible outgrowth of that. If you really think comparing banking and bitcoin’s energy use is possible, useful, or worth doing though, it’s not, because bitcoin money transaction stuff and all the money being pumped into it pushing up the total required computing exponentially is by the same freaks who take out trillions in naked shorts at the expense of actual material production or print most of the world’s fiat currency in the past two years so keep their shit afloat. Bitcoin is bad because it’s an extension of that terribleness and not an escape from it, even if it somehow wasn’t being used by speculative rich people it would just run into the same issues as real life capitalistic currencies and create a new different class based system.
“bourgeois states” what Congress cannot pass any law that can stop the bitcoin protocol from allowing any transactions. It has the same use both in the first world and the third world the preservation of purchasing power also all cryptocurrencies do not use proof of work. Crypto has no bearing on any economic system. How is it making me rich if I don’t speculate with crypto and actually use it to purchase goods and services
Correct. The use is speculation and scamming people out of their money. There is some secondary use to go around some sanctions, I’m sure the Russian oligarchs also appreciate that.
are you illiterate does it like look any of the persons in the articles I linked are speculating to you/scamming others
What is it with you and ad hominems?
No, you successfully cherry-picked a few that don’t. That’s why I said “there is some secondary use to go around some sanctions.”
op says crypto can only be used by scammers and rich techbros so obviously providd evidence to the contrary to show that people do use it for empowerment people use the usd and all the major world currencies for horrible things too but no one with a brain would say they’re useless based on that
Where exactly does op say that?
Here, have a link how banking system can be used for empowerment. Does this alleviate your issues with the banking system? 🤣
It’s just a techbro veil thrown over the same speculative assets that have been nothing but get rich quick schemes and contribute no real value or “freedom” for anybody.
That’s what @[email protected] said, not the op (@[email protected]). Is the rest of your evidence just as accurate?
Edge cases exist in everything, but when you google “crypto” do you get shitcoins and eventual pump and dumps or do you get information and a tool to liberate yourself somehow? You get the former. You can bring out any number of single cases where it’s benefited somebody in a way that lets them perform some task or create some value, but you know you’re being dishonest if you say that’s where the majority of money pumped into crypto goes or even where the majority of it’s usecases comes from.
Bourgeois states are those controlled by a bourgeois class, this is an umbrella term for all non-socialist countries. Also yes, the government of the United States could outlaw cryptocurrency and make adoption impossible for 99%, but they never will because it’s in their (rich people) interests. For you, a regular person, being able to send money using math and a year’s worth of car emissions has no real or tangible benefit for anything except maybe buying drugs. For a rich person, cryptocurrency is speculative assets that can be assigned arbitrary values and used to dodge taxes and cook books, make contracts last forever and when the terms become unfair say “oh well”.
What I’m saying is that the issues crypto enthusiasts say will be fixed won’t be fixed because the class politics in economy are not addressed by cryptocurrency. Crypto is just intangible assets that can be assigned arbitrary values and traded, which is called a speculative asset, and those have existed for a very long time and have revolutionized nothing. If crypto actually benefited regular people like you and me more than it benefited rich people it would have been killed in the cradle like anything genuinely liberatory in the 1st world.
There is no such thing as a socialist country even Cuba recognizes private property see their latest constitution.Who cares what the US government does it matters zero they cannot stop people from sending btc to each other even if they tried to slaugther everyone in zimbabwe and other repressive states they try to do exactly that just replace btc with usd and the people still refuse to use their national currencies and have you considered that I and other people don’t live in the US shocking I know but it’s true. Yeah it has tangible benefit I’m able to freely send currency to whomever I feel like for whatever purpose.You do realize rich people have dodged taxes for centuries and write unfair contracts , right? They don’t need crypto to do that and there’s nothing in this life that benefits only poor people nor is it relevant if it benefits rich people what does the guy in Nigeria who’s been blocked from the banking system because he protested against government repression care if some people speculate on the asset I sent him
No, but it helps immensely, as regulation has not (yet) caught up. Old scams, new space.
it doesn’t help immensely since they’ve been doing it for centuries easily without it
That’s just, like, your opinion man.
Oh damn I’ll let their communist party know, I guess when material conditions dictate that the socialist party at the helm of government should go one way in order to help development and help the people it’s bad, they should actually stick to idealism and keep doing the same thing over and over again until it all falls apart or something.
Also I think you’re maybe starting to get the gist of what I’m saying about crypto, when you’re older you might understand that it’s overall effect on society is bad and cringe.
Communism’s main differentiating factor is literally no private property so if a country is claiming to be communist but violates this basic property it’s clearly not communist and that’s revisionism. Don’t be condescending to anyone to anyone based on their age just because they don’t agree with you I will not change my opinion on something because people do bad things with it, it is completely irrelevant how other people misuse something.
Communism is unattainable in current society, there are no communist societies yet, and communist revolutions only put a communist party in charge of a country or region that still has to exist in the current world order. There are no communist nations, because nations arose primarily out of class struggle and a communist society would be one without class struggle, so no country, so there never will be a “communist nation”. We can only right now put a party in charge that understands and is guided by socialist theory and socialist principles, which is called AES (Actually existing socialism).
Revisionism is misunderstanding basic socialist theory like what you just typed
None of this is related to crypto anyway, you just don’t understand that new technologies will incentivize people to use them in specific ways, and these incentives in this case create an overall terrible effect on society that has already ruined lives and wastes precious labor and engineering talent. That’s why I’m saying you’re young, because it’s something you understand when you get old, and it’s not something I understood when I was young.
The incentives created by crypto lend itself to being used for bad things no matter the original intentions of anybody who makes any system or writes any code, the longer it’s allowed to exist as meme currency the more harm it will do to society at large. Any number of small stories of somebody actually being able to pay for a burger with only $100 of gas fees are massively outweighed by families losing their money because mom tried to get rich on a shitcoin because they’re poor and looking for any way to get out of their economic strife.
I’m not naive which is why I don’t believe in communism read this https://lemmy.ml/post/255553?scrollToComments=true and tell me if anything in that would make you want to live in China or any other country guided by a socialist party. THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF COMMUNISM IS TO CREATE A MARKETLESS, WAGELESS, CLASSLESS AND MONEYLESS SOCIETY WHERE THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION IS COLLECTIVELY OWNED. ALL COMMUNIST COUNTRIES LITERALLY STAGED VIOLENT REVOLUTIONS AND COMMIT MASSIVE HUMANS RIGHTS VIOLATIONS FOR THE PURPOSE OF CREATING THIS SOCIETY NO COUNTRY THAT HAS/HAD A COMMUNIST PARTY IN POWER HAS EVER EVEN COME SLIGHTLY CLOSE TO THIS IDEAL BUT INSTEAD HAVE BEEN/ARE STATES WHERE ALL THE MEANS OF PRODUCTIONS ARE OWNED BY THE STATE AND ANY BUSINESSES THAT ARE ALLOWED BASED ON THE GRACES OF THE PART, WITH LAND BEING EXPROPRIATED BY THE STATE FOR BASICALLY FREE TO SELL TO MULTINATIONAL CORPORATIONS, RULE BY DECREE INSTEAD OF RULE LAW, HUGE AMOUNTS OF BUREAUCRACY, NO RIGHT TO UNIONIZE AND NO PRIVACY ETC “ACTUAL EXISTING SOCIALISM” DOESN’T RESEMBLE ANY WRITINGS OF ANY MARXISTS ECONOMISTS AND IS INFINITELY WORSE THAN ANY CAPITALIST STATE IT PURPORTS TO BE MORE FAIR THAN EVEN STATES WITH THEIR CITIZENS LEAVING IN DROVES FOR LITERALLY ANY OTHER STATE. I GIVE ZERO FUCKS HOW SOMEONE USES A PARTICULAR TECHNOLOGY IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO SEEK OUT THE NECESSARY INFORMATION TO UTILIZE ANY PARTICULAR TECHNOLOGY AND ANY FAILURE TO DO IS A REFLECTION OF YOUR PERSONAL INEPTITUDE AND NOT A FAILING OF THAT PARTICULAR TECHNOLOGY
Lol cope
Caps lock should be a bannable offense.