Ten Chinese air force aircraft entered Taiwan's air defence zone on Wednesday accompanying five Chinese warships engaged in "combat readiness" patrols, the island's defence ministry said, the second such incursion this week.
I mean, it was made solely for your benefit (though I did like reading it). For your convenience, here it is again.
They are mocking you because they have assessed you as not interested in really engaging with people. If you were more unassuming, the response would be different. It sucks to be dogpiled-on, it has happened to me – with this very group no less – but it’s good to try to have some perspective of the limits of the implications of such behavior.
Also hexbear is just a little excited to have liberals to use as punching bags via federation, so there’s definitely a bit of a hair trigger. I generally prefer to stick to my own ways of talking with people for various reasons, but I struggle to find serious fault with them when I am essentially doing the same thing in my own way with others, and OP seriously brought this upon themselves by posting such a stupid, misleading, and alarmist article (see the comments about the Taiwan ADIZ from myself and others).
Edit: also I checked back and yeah, you were picking a fight. Liberal complains about “brigading,” socialist A criticizes them, socialist B riffs on socialist A’s comment, then you come and reply to socialist B with “You seem upset,” which I would struggle to read as anything other than condescending and terse. I misread
It’s not like you said “Hey, what about the Taiwan Strait part?” and got people screaming “HOG OUT OR LOG OUT!”
I don’t think I’ve expressed any liberal sentiments here at all.
I legitimately don’t care either way tbh. All this does is once again reinforce the idea that leftist spaces on the Internet are hostile to anything besides a very narrow set of ideas which makes up a very small and myopic subset of leftist thought. I am not here to cure anyone’s ignorance. I am engaging earnestly with you because you are actually making an effort to converse instead of just posting literal pig shit.
Whoops, I misread the reply chain pretty severely, you can ignore the edit. You were picking a fight, but not along the lines I wrote there.
I don’t they’ve expressed any liberal sentiments here at all.
Neoliberal is a subset of liberal (in the traditional philosophical sense, not American vernacular), and there is a very clear divide in the thread between neoliberal and socialist.
I legitimately don’t care either way tbh.
With due respect, you’re just a little Not Mad, but let’s not belabor the point. I’ve been Not Mad too, it’s not a sin.
All this does is once again reinforce the idea that leftist spaces on the Internet are hostile to anything besides a very narrow set of ideas which makes up a very small and myopic subset of leftist thought
There are a bunch of things wrong with this, starting with that the article was misleading dogshit and deserves to be mocked. Beyond that, the cultural clique of Hexbear can be myopic, but I think that it does not compare negatively to modern neoliberals in this respect. It is much more interested in international perspectives rather than the perspective of the “international community” (i.e. the EU + the Anglosphere + the most convenient elements of Taiwan, Japan, and SK). They quite frequently read neoliberal writing and listen to neoliberal speeches and so on, while neoliberals are usually content to hear about anything to do with their opposition exclusively through second- and third-hand reporting by their own media.
Which leads me into my next point, that “tankies” etc. are readily called fringe by liberals on the internet, but internationally represent a very common set of opinions (or a strong overlap therewith). It is itself myopia to dismiss the opinions of Chinese and many other people in the imperial periphery and consider only the opinions of the imperial core when evaluating what people think and what “leftist thought” consists of. You could not serious believe, for example, that the Collected Writings of Chairman Mao are important to only a “small subset of leftist thought,” right? Sure, you are unlikely to know anyone – or even to have ever met anyone in your real life – who regards such a thing positively, but your personal experiences are not the world.
As an aside, the “bot” rhetoric that the liberals so often display is not really helping your case about the tankies being especially closed-minded.
I am not here to cure anyone’s ignorance.
Do you see how most people would not be interested in talking with someone who says things like this? That level of condescension rarely produces anything other than scorn.
“You are being condescending to me too!”
Sure, I don’t think that’s an unreasonable view (though not my intention), but I am nonetheless explaining and substantiating my differences rather than merely denouncing what you say as “ignorant,” and even if we nonetheless accept my fault, that just results in a criticism towards both of us rather than solely towards me.
I am engaging earnestly with you because you are actually making an effort to converse instead of just posting literal pig shit.
I would not have replied at all if I didn’t recognize your username. You hadn’t been saying anything in this thread that someone would normally think merits a serious response. You were derisive right out of the gate. To act this way and then complain about other people not turning the other cheek and speaking patiently to you is silly.
I promise you that if you make an alt (preferably with a different username in case people are grumpy with the interaction here) and post a thread on asklemmygrad or askchapo to the effect of “Hey, I’m a [whatever you call your flavor of liberalism], but I want to learn about what you believe on various topics and what you think of certain criticisms . . .” you will get mostly responses that are earnest. If you expect people to be polite and unassuming towards you when you begin by being aggressive and presumptuous, you will almost exclusively be disappointed, and I don’t just mean that for interacting with commies.
Ignorance, once again, being the idea that ML orthodoxy is the only “true socialism.” We’ve been over this already and I’m not sure there’s much point in carrying on this conversation if you are going to intentionally misrepresent politics I have articulated to you a number of times.
And to be honest, it sounds like you are the one doing a lot of speaking for the Chinese while making a lot of assumptions about my relationship with Chinese society. I don’t really feel the need to justify any of this to you or trade cultural credentials. That honestly feels offensive and chauvinist.
I do appreciate the discussion though. I hope we can continue this in a different setting somehow.
GarbageShoot appears to have gone to decent lengths to respond to your comments in good faith, including linking to threads that address your questions. Instead, you reply you’ve ‘glanced at it’, then divert back to moaning about how people are dog piling you. Then, you close your most recent comment by saying you’re ‘engaging earnestly’ with OP.
We didn’t come down in the last bloody shower mate, you deserve every drop of the PPB.
I read GS’s thread, what do you want me to say? I have more personal, firsthand experience with China than anyone commenting there? I have family there? I speak the language? I have an actual stake in Chinese society? I think we’ve seen conclusively that none of that matters if you do a wrongspeak.
GS even admits that the brigading is obnoxious then goes on to defend it. Like I said, this is well beyond my ability to truly care, I was just really hoping that lemmy would be a place people could discuss these topics instead of just trolling, and then having double standards when someone else gently pushes back.
You seem upset
Do you have anything to contribute or are you just trolling?
Did you ever check out that thread on lemmygrad I made for you? You never said anything but you might have just forgotten.
🥰
I glanced at it. But you see what’s happening here right? These people have no interest in anything but trolling.
I mean, it was made solely for your benefit (though I did like reading it). For your convenience, here it is again.
They are mocking you because they have assessed you as not interested in really engaging with people. If you were more unassuming, the response would be different. It sucks to be dogpiled-on, it has happened to me – with this very group no less – but it’s good to try to have some perspective of the limits of the implications of such behavior.
Also hexbear is just a little excited to have liberals to use as punching bags via federation, so there’s definitely a bit of a hair trigger. I generally prefer to stick to my own ways of talking with people for various reasons, but I struggle to find serious fault with them when I am essentially doing the same thing in my own way with others, and OP seriously brought this upon themselves by posting such a stupid, misleading, and alarmist article (see the comments about the Taiwan ADIZ from myself and others).
Edit:
also I checked back and yeah, you were picking a fight. Liberal complains about “brigading,” socialist A criticizes them, socialist B riffs on socialist A’s comment, then you come and reply to socialist B with “You seem upset,” which I would struggle to read as anything other than condescending and terse.I misreadIt’s not like you said “Hey, what about the Taiwan Strait part?” and got people screaming “HOG OUT OR LOG OUT!”
I don’t think I’ve expressed any liberal sentiments here at all.
I legitimately don’t care either way tbh. All this does is once again reinforce the idea that leftist spaces on the Internet are hostile to anything besides a very narrow set of ideas which makes up a very small and myopic subset of leftist thought. I am not here to cure anyone’s ignorance. I am engaging earnestly with you because you are actually making an effort to converse instead of just posting literal pig shit.
Whoops, I misread the reply chain pretty severely, you can ignore the edit. You were picking a fight, but not along the lines I wrote there.
Neoliberal is a subset of liberal (in the traditional philosophical sense, not American vernacular), and there is a very clear divide in the thread between neoliberal and socialist.
With due respect, you’re just a little Not Mad, but let’s not belabor the point. I’ve been Not Mad too, it’s not a sin.
There are a bunch of things wrong with this, starting with that the article was misleading dogshit and deserves to be mocked. Beyond that, the cultural clique of Hexbear can be myopic, but I think that it does not compare negatively to modern neoliberals in this respect. It is much more interested in international perspectives rather than the perspective of the “international community” (i.e. the EU + the Anglosphere + the most convenient elements of Taiwan, Japan, and SK). They quite frequently read neoliberal writing and listen to neoliberal speeches and so on, while neoliberals are usually content to hear about anything to do with their opposition exclusively through second- and third-hand reporting by their own media.
Which leads me into my next point, that “tankies” etc. are readily called fringe by liberals on the internet, but internationally represent a very common set of opinions (or a strong overlap therewith). It is itself myopia to dismiss the opinions of Chinese and many other people in the imperial periphery and consider only the opinions of the imperial core when evaluating what people think and what “leftist thought” consists of. You could not serious believe, for example, that the Collected Writings of Chairman Mao are important to only a “small subset of leftist thought,” right? Sure, you are unlikely to know anyone – or even to have ever met anyone in your real life – who regards such a thing positively, but your personal experiences are not the world.
As an aside, the “bot” rhetoric that the liberals so often display is not really helping your case about the tankies being especially closed-minded.
Do you see how most people would not be interested in talking with someone who says things like this? That level of condescension rarely produces anything other than scorn.
“You are being condescending to me too!”
Sure, I don’t think that’s an unreasonable view (though not my intention), but I am nonetheless explaining and substantiating my differences rather than merely denouncing what you say as “ignorant,” and even if we nonetheless accept my fault, that just results in a criticism towards both of us rather than solely towards me.
I would not have replied at all if I didn’t recognize your username. You hadn’t been saying anything in this thread that someone would normally think merits a serious response. You were derisive right out of the gate. To act this way and then complain about other people not turning the other cheek and speaking patiently to you is silly.
I promise you that if you make an alt (preferably with a different username in case people are grumpy with the interaction here) and post a thread on asklemmygrad or askchapo to the effect of “Hey, I’m a [whatever you call your flavor of liberalism], but I want to learn about what you believe on various topics and what you think of certain criticisms . . .” you will get mostly responses that are earnest. If you expect people to be polite and unassuming towards you when you begin by being aggressive and presumptuous, you will almost exclusively be disappointed, and I don’t just mean that for interacting with commies.
Ignorance, once again, being the idea that ML orthodoxy is the only “true socialism.” We’ve been over this already and I’m not sure there’s much point in carrying on this conversation if you are going to intentionally misrepresent politics I have articulated to you a number of times.
And to be honest, it sounds like you are the one doing a lot of speaking for the Chinese while making a lot of assumptions about my relationship with Chinese society. I don’t really feel the need to justify any of this to you or trade cultural credentials. That honestly feels offensive and chauvinist.
I do appreciate the discussion though. I hope we can continue this in a different setting somehow.
GarbageShoot appears to have gone to decent lengths to respond to your comments in good faith, including linking to threads that address your questions. Instead, you reply you’ve ‘glanced at it’, then divert back to moaning about how people are dog piling you. Then, you close your most recent comment by saying you’re ‘engaging earnestly’ with OP.
We didn’t come down in the last bloody shower mate, you deserve every drop of the PPB.
I read GS’s thread, what do you want me to say? I have more personal, firsthand experience with China than anyone commenting there? I have family there? I speak the language? I have an actual stake in Chinese society? I think we’ve seen conclusively that none of that matters if you do a wrongspeak.
GS even admits that the brigading is obnoxious then goes on to defend it. Like I said, this is well beyond my ability to truly care, I was just really hoping that lemmy would be a place people could discuss these topics instead of just trolling, and then having double standards when someone else gently pushes back.
Edit - improper pronoun
You sound upset
You sound upset
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Um, they did contribute? Didn’t you see the
You seem upset
😠
Seems reasonable
U mad?
Not really
You sound mad
Ok
Good point