• Candelestine
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    11 months ago

    People are allowed to support whatever political causes they wish, so long as they are willing to engage civilly and fairly with other people. This is how the modern world works, with dialogue and debate instead of censorship, cowardly avoidance and control.

    • 73ms@sopuli.xyz
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      11 months ago

      Well, people are also absolutely free to choose not to associate with, use services from people whose opinions they find objectionable etc. Nothing wrong with that.

      • Candelestine
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        11 months ago

        Of course they are. But once they start telling other people what to do, they are doing a different thing from that, are they not?

        • 73ms@sopuli.xyz
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          11 months ago

          They’re just expressing an opinion just like the Lemmy devs have. (note: I have not looked into what their views are exactly so I’m not saying parent poster is correct)

          Nobody is being forced to do what they suggest.

            • 73ms@sopuli.xyz
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              11 months ago

              At the end of the day it is just an opinion even if it is in the form of a direction because the one giving it has no real influence on or ability to make the readers do it and they know it.

              • irmoz@reddthat.com
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                11 months ago

                Directions don’t only become directions when you have power. They’re just ineffective if you don’t have it. Doesn’t mean you’re not at least trying to control people

                • 73ms@sopuli.xyz
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                  11 months ago

                  That’s really arguing about insignificant semantics just concerning the form and not the actual implications of the message.

                  • irmoz@reddthat.com
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                    11 months ago

                    That is not semantics whatsoever. “Don’t open that door” is a direction whether it comes from a stranger or a police officer. Why should anything else be different?

          • Candelestine
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            11 months ago

            When that opinion is shutting down dialogue, cowardly avoidance and censorship, it becomes a far dumber opinion than anyone else’s.

            • 73ms@sopuli.xyz
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              11 months ago

              I think there’s absolutely things worth doing boycotts over. I don’t really like to have much to do with anything that is benefiting Russia for example. We can both have our opinions.

              • Candelestine
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                11 months ago

                I can agree with and support that. I would not extend that boycott to trying to silence other individuals though. I’d prefer to try to convince them.

      • irmoz@reddthat.com
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        11 months ago

        Then maybe we shouldn’t go around telling people which instances to associate with.

    • Sethayy@sh.itjust.works
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      11 months ago

      And Tbh anyone saying anything else is probably just propaganda - Id be willing to bet the biggest racist and biggest tankie would be best friends given the right introduction. Good ol divide and conquer

    • whats_a_refoogee@sh.itjust.works
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      11 months ago

      I don’t believe that you’re consistent on this position.

      I would be incredibly shocked if you had the same stance towards white supremacists, Nazis, or pedophiles that want to remove age of consent.

      If you do, then cheers. You’re practically a unicorn (in the sense that it’s extremely rare). I don’t disagree with that position as long as it’s consistant

      • Candelestine
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        11 months ago

        I disagree with what you say, but will defend to death your right to say it. If you don’t hear that often, find better friends.

        • irmoz@reddthat.com
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          11 months ago

          That’s a very naive view, and ignores the existence of legitimately harmful opinions that must be fought

          • Candelestine
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            11 months ago

            It comes down to methodology. Any way you can think of to fight something by actually opressively destroying it, in a free society, will fail. The reason for this is that it’s not something that can be fought with aggression, most of the time anyway. It has to be fought carefully, or your combat will simply fuel anything that feeds on strife and fear. Which conspiracies do, it’s exactly what they feed on.

            To make an analogy, it’s not Batman that Gotham needs. It’s lots of money, doctors and teachers. It doesn’t need violence, it doesn’t need evil people being punched in the face, it needs better medical treatment and fairer laws.

    • Mewtwo@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      11 months ago

      So we both agree that open dialogue is important and that censorship and control are bad.

      That’s great to hear that you also oppose the Chinese governments complete censorship of the Uyghur genocide. We should have an open dialogue that anyone who supports such authoritarian control should be made known as such.

      • Candelestine
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        11 months ago

        Sure, that’s fine and good, dialogue to your hearts content. But don’t think fixing them is our job. Only war could save the Uyghurs, providing it did not go nuclear. And fighting a war against China is dangerous…

        Their entire race is, unfortunately, dead men walking and there’s not a damn thing we can do about it. China simply does not have to listen to our wishes. We need to worry about our people, not policing the rest of the world.