Zackey Rahimi, the Texas criminal defendant challenging a federal gun law before the Supreme Court on Tuesday, said this summer that he no longer wanted to own firearms and expressed remorse for his actions that got him in trouble with the law.
“I will make sure for sure this time that when I finish my time being incarcerated to stay the faithful, righteous person I am this day, to stay away from all drugs at all times, do probation & parole rightfully, to go to school & have a great career, have a great manufacturing engineering job, to never break any law again, to stay away from the wrong circle, to stay away from all firearms & weapons, & to never be away from my family again,” Rahimi, who is being held at a Fort Worth jail, said in a handwritten letter dated July 25.
He continued: “I had firearms for the right reason in our place to be able to protect my family at all times especially for what we’ve went through in the past but I’ll make sure to do whatever it takes to be able to do everything the right pathway & to be able to come home fast as I can to take care of my family at all times.”
It doesn’t matter. If the SC upholds the law (which is unlikely) the gun lobby will simply find someone more acceptable, and under slightly different circumstances, and bring up another challenge. They’ll keep going after gun laws the way the anti-choice side relentlessly attacked Roe.
I mean, this particular gun law violates the 14A, so it’s good for all of us if 2A supporters go after it.
How is putting guns in the hands of known abusers a good thing to do? Why is that person’s right to a gun more important to the lives of those around him?
The basis of this appeal is the question of whether a civil protective order can be tantamount to conviction for purposes of depriving enumerated Constitutional rights.
It is rote accepted practice in many divorce filings to file a restraining order as a preemptive measure even if the person being filed against poses no credible or historical threat of violence.
I think it makes sense to make someone a prohibited person for certain violent convictions but I’m more skeptical of civil filings that are often spurious or without evidentiary basis.
Incorrect. For that to be correct, there would have to be a standard of proof. The correct term here is accused abusers.
Semantics are easy when you’re sacrificing other people’s lives.
It’s bizarre you think yourself a hero as you openly advocate putting the property of abusers over the safety of those they abuse, like temporarily losing access to firearms is a bigger tragedy than being executed by a former partner.
Are we supposed to politely ignore how that makes you look? People who hit their wives also post on social media and it shouldn’t come as a shock to people that they also tend see themselves the victim and right about everything.
You’re a big brave boy, you can handle a few months away from your beloved guns.
Burden of proof that a gun owner respects human life is on them. I’d like another amendment please.
It’s pretty clear that you don’t actually have any ideas here and are just like a barking dog.
So you engage in sophistry to avoid an actual argument. That didn’t fly in Ancient Greece and won’t fly here.
Because the 2nd Amendment is clear and any gun law is an infringement of the right.
Even gun loving conservative scholars agree that the 2nd amendment is a barely coherent grammatically tenuous mess. It’s notoriously unclear.
But for my part, I don’t see how any sane person reads “A well regulated Militia” and concludes that all regulation is prohibited.
Shhhh, the know-nothings don’t know this.
Maybe because the country didn’t have the money or resources to equip the “well regulated militia” at that time therefore depended on the people to bring their own arms?
Who?
I mean, “the right of the people shall not be infringed.”
Also, correspondence at the time sort of supports this.
Literally every serious constitutional scholar thinks it’s ambiguous, just as a matter of English language. Even Scalia, the arch-right Supreme Court justice who penned the majority opinion for Heller, the decision that established the right to own a personal firearm, wrote:
That isn’t a constitutional argument, that is a stare decisis argument.
Here is what is said above that, where it is clearly a constitutional argument, because it references the constitution as evidence- not other courts.
That’s the justification, not the right. The right is to bear arms. The militia is everyone able-bodied in the US.
Whether you personally think that’s the correct interpretation, if you’re intellectually honest you should at least be able to admit, as many conservative legal scholars themselves admit, that the wording is ambiguous.
I’ll buy that when one these “conservative legal scholars” aka moron federalists can produce a single primary source document that uses the phrase bear arms outside of a strictly military context involving uniformed, regimented troops, and instead refers expressly to an individual right of self defense.
Otherwise, it’s not ambiguous.
I was curious about this, so I looked into it. According to the Duke center for Firearms Law, one study found that “nearly 95 percent of all uses of “bear arms” conveyed the idiomatic sense relating serving in the military”. Another found usage to be 66% military, 21% both military and civilian, and 13% ambiguous. But it sounds like there are a lot of primary sources uses of non-military contexts, especially directly preceding the war for independence.
I’m on your side and I think this is an interesting point, but personally, I’m not convinced this is the strongest argument. We should be able to regulate firearms, even if “bear arms” means “carry arms for private use”.
It is far from ambiguous. The first half tells you why the right exists and only part of why. The second half is the right itself, which is the right of the people to keep and bear arms.
The whole question is whether the beginning is a merely “prefatory clause” that has no effect on the application of the second half. The other interpretation is that the beginning is not just idle small talk: People have the right to keep and bear arms insofar as it’s conducive to a well-regulated militia.
Now, you may disagree with that interpretation, but the existence of at least two rival interpretations is the very definition of ambiguity.
It’s only unclear if you have an ulterior motive.
Then I guess there are a lot of pro-gun conservatives who have an ulterior motive! The sentence isn’t even grammatical according to the rules of modern English because the controversial comma separates a subject from its predicate.
A metric by which no other amendment is interpreted, otherwise we could insist completely dumb shit like “soldiers must remain homeless for the duration of their service”.
The justification is actually to “protect state security.” It’s right there in the text.
Security of a free state.
Sounds like you need to start executing politicians for the tyranny of “food safety standards” then because the only metric by which America is more “free” than comparable countries is “guns sold to idiots, extremists and domestic terrorists”.
Most non violent prisoners of any country to ever exist, as a whole population, and per capita. free lol.
By justification, you mean the spirit of the law right?
By justification I mean the reason for the right. The right being the right to bear arms.
That sounds like well regulated militia is the spirit of the law. The reason for it, the intention, however you want to word it.
It says right in the text the purpose is to protect the security of the state.
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,…”
It follows that the state is what may regulate the militia.
The right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.
Important parts in bold.
Stick your fingers in your ears and yell as loud as you want, its not gonna make the well regulated portion go away.
Not even beginning to mention the founders intentions of the constitution evolving over time, as the lethality, proliferation, and criminal usage of guns has skyrocketed since that amendment was written.
The reason for the law is because the militia was used to defend the US. That changed very quickly when the founders figured out that loosely organized militias were no match to even fight Natives in the Northwest Territory. So the justification is moot now since militias play almost no part in the defense of the US.
I saw a YouTube video or maybe a website article years ago stating that the U.S. can never be conquered, that if an organized foreign military defeated the organized U.S. military they will have a hard time with the millions upon millions of guns in the country.
I mean, if they defeated the military what can a militia do?
I’d say it is more down to the size of the US. There are 330 million people in a country nearly the size of Europe. A country could definitely get a chunk of the US. That would definitely require fully defeating our military which is pretty unlikely. Insurgency can definitely gum things up a bit for foreign invaders but it really takes outside support to actually accomplish much.
The second amendment is not clear and has been given the broadest possible interpretation. Are you a member of a well-regulated militia?
Not well regulated but yes I am part of the militia. Well regulated means well supplied. The militia is everyone able-bodied in the US.
No it doesnt
Yes. It. Does. Just because the common definition for militia changed doesn’t mean that the meaning of the writing with the definition of the time is different because you want it to be.
It wasnt the definition of the time either. It has always meant what it means today.
Even if that were true, it doesn’t matter because the militia is not the right. The right is the right of the people to keep and bear arms.
I think there’s subtleties that you’re ignoring to push an agenda. I do think it’s important to understand the question on the table though. The question isn’t what rights you have, but when is the government allowed to take away those rights.
Maybe we should take a step back. Do you think the government can revoke a person’s 2nd amendment rights? For example do prisoners have the right have a shiv in their cell? The question posed in this instance is whether or not a restraining order for domestic assault rises to the level of due process for taking away that right. It’s already firmly written into law that the government can leverage due process to take away rights. Unless you’re arguing that it is an absolute right, and we should all be allowed to have nuclear bombs and prisoners should be allowed to have shivs, then I think you’re missing the point.
You also seem to have a very tenuous definition of the 2nd amendment that you’re willing to change when it doesn’t fit your needs. It seems like you might want to think it through a bit more, and perhaps try to get at the root of the question at hand, instead of spouting that everyone should be allowed to have arms no matter what. The implication of that statement is a bit terrifying, and is well outside of our current legal adjudication of the 2nd amendment.
Where are you getting that well regulated means well armed? It meant, and still means, trained, able to take orders, and battlefield ready. Where do you think the term “regulars” comes from in the context of historical warfare and what do you think that term means?
Did you throughly misunderstand collective rights theory or something? Could you possibly point me to the interpretation where it claims “well regulated” means “well armed” in the context of the 2nd amendment? I certainly couldn’t find any sources to back that claim and it seems like you might have pulled it out of your backside.
It doesn’t really matter what it means because the right is the right of the people to keep and bare arms. The militia is merely the justification for that right. I’m not putting in the effort here because I don’t have to. It is extremely clear and simple.
reg·u·late verb past tense: regulated; past participle: regulated control or maintain the rate or speed of (a machine or process) so that it operates properly. “a hormone that regulates metabolism and organ function” Similar: control adjust manage balance set synchronize modulate tune control or supervise (something, especially a company or business activity) by means of rules and regulations. “the organization that regulates fishing in the region” Similar: supervise oversee police superintend monitor check (up on) keep an eye on inspect administer be responsible for control manage direct guide govern rule order keep tabs on keep a tab on keep a beady eye on set (a clock or other apparatus) according to an external standard. “the standard time by which other clocks were regulated”
sup·ply verb past tense: supplied; past participle: supplied make (something needed or wanted) available to someone; provide. “the farm supplies apples to cider makers” Similar: give contribute provide furnish donate bestow grant endow afford impart lay on come up with make available proffer dispense allocate allot assign disburse lavish shower regale fork out shell out minister serve confer equip rig out outfit clothe fit arm kit out endue provide (someone) with something needed or wanted. “they struggled to supply the besieged island with aircraft” be adequate to satisfy (a requirement or demand). “the two reservoirs supply about 1% of the city’s needs”
Seems Oxford’s disagrees.
Yes, as we all know words never change. Have a gay day.
Not that much. You are way the fuck off.
Wow you just make up words now and say they mean whatever you want?
Regulated and Regimented are more synonymous that whatever you are talking about.
No. Well regulated meant in working order which is why people who owned weapons had to register them and have them inspected. Do you have yours registered with the government? When was the last time you had them inspected by the government to make sure you can defend the US as art of the militia?
for the purposes of a well regulated militia
Yeah we don’t have those anymore chief. We have this thing called a military instead and I already saw your “everyone is a part of the militia” opinion, that’s some straight up bullshit.
Their constitution says the US isn’t even supposed to keep a standing army. There’s lots of discussion about that by the people who wrote it and decided on the specific language.
Also, you’re right about the 2nd amendment. The part about the well regulated militia is part of the right, a qualifier, not subsequent.
But, people in the US, both government and citizens, clearly don’t follow their constitution very well. It’s used to justify whatever they want to do when they can and freely ignored when inconvenient.
Sounds like the Bible.
Tell me about it, I get to suffer living here listening to all of the creative interpretations of the constitution. My favorites are when someone clearly hasn’t read it says a quote is in it and says it to me who used to read and carry a copy of the constitution.
It doesn’t fucking matter. The right is not for a militia. The right is for all the people to bear arms.
And well regulated meant well supplied. The militia has plenty of guns when the militia is the people and the people have plenty of guns.
Please tell me more about what people you’ve never met defined something to be. Or preferably tell us that’s your interpretation
There are other, primary sources, that back up this interpretation. The Federalist Papers is a good starting point.
I don’t know the real answer, but it seems that defining a collective right as the second in a list of nine other individual rights doesn’t seem logical. I, personally, believe the individual right is what was intended. I also believe that over 200 years have passed and it needs to be updated. Arguing the semantics isn’t going to help anyone and simply attempting to re-interpret what’s supposed to be a living document is absurd. That being said, it would take a lot more people being a lot more rational to ever have a hope of making those changes.
Yeah, quoting the federalist papers to me is about as good as me quoting some other source that as equally invalidates that opinion.
Sure it’s a source and sure you can based an opinion on it but it’s not definitive by any means no matter how much conservatives would like to suggest otherwise.
Let me get this straight, you don’t believe that the words mean something and claim we can’t know their intent, then when offered additional context provided by some of the people who wrote the words you disagree with you dismiss it out of hand?
What would be a proper source to you then? Or do you prefer to revel in willful ignorance? Because that sounds like a pretty conservative view to me.
And I’ll point out my exact issue “written by some people who wrote them”
What if I quoted Thomas Jefferson, who did the actual writing of the constitution, about separation of church and state? Would you then agree that it’s needed as he so strongly agreed for?
What I’m telling you is I disagree with the writers of the federalist papers as did quite a few of the other founders.
Read the first sentence again.
The right is solely because the founders meant for the US to rely on the militia for defense. That changed very fucking quick because the state militias were uncoordinated garbage so the federal government recognized the need for a large standing army. Militias being our main defense has not been a thing since the mid 1790s. You are a couple hundred years behind.
That’s funny, because it looks to me like the PEOPLE were guaranteed a right.
Because they thought the militia was necessary for the defense of the state. They found out that idea was wrong pretty quickly.
Ok, boomer
Shall not be infringed.
So you can buy any weapon in any manner of firing, including full auto or are there laws in place to prevent this?
You should be able to but there are infringements in place like the originally excessively expensive $200 tax stamp for fully automatic weapons.
Even for people with a history of gun violence? Does this also prohibit separate penalties of disarmament when someone is found guilty?
You understand how this interpretation of the law can’t have a positive effect on society right?
If they’re too dangerous to be trusted in polite society then why are they released? If they just so happen to try it in a polite society that’s well armed we won’t have to worry any longer.
Ughh have you heard of the eighth amendment you absolute fucking donkey?
Of course you haven’t, you never even learned to read.
So they can be infringed?
No one who has actually read the 2A has ever thought it was “clear”.
The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Everything to the left of it is just a justification for why that right exists. Can you tell me with a straight face that that right is not clear?
Please tell me where the Supreme Court, who is responsible for constitutional law understanding, was wrong?
The constitution is supposed to be a fluid system, designed to be ratified and easy to apply to modern standards, if the country would actually do it, to create a better life for everyone I the United States.
Even the Supreme Court says you are wrong.
No, that is one ideology called the “living constitution”. But there are many who oppose that ideology.
The revolutionary war was won with the help of private warships. That would have been well known to the founding fathers who wrote the bill of rights. Do you think that they would suddenly not want the citizens to be able to defend the homeland because guns are scary?
https://reason.com/2019/11/03/what-is-a-well-regulated-militia-anyway/
Yes.
You are either disingenuous or an idiot.
Or neither
Well you seem to be both.
Yes, because you are violating the rules of English grammar in your claim. As was my original point, it is impossible to claim any interpretation of the 2A without violating grammar. As a result, it can have any meaning you want, since you will make up the rules you like in order to interpret it the way you want.
You know that half the states had restrictions (no open carry, concealed carry, registration, etc) when the 2nd Amendment was passed and continued to have those restrictions after, right? For something being so clear, a good portion of the states sure misunderstood it…or maybe it’s you that does.
It’s much easier to just argue that a “well regulated militia” means “morbidly obese with neither training nor discipline”.
It’s why they never have any other skills that would be useful in a war, like establishing ad hoc communication networks, piloting a drone, field medicine, even working as a team.
Their entire contribution would just be “have gun” and if their staunch opposition to wearing masks in a pandemic is anything to go by, they wouldn’t even offer their country that.
Do you have a source?
Also, for some time it was interpreted that the constitution was only a limitation on the federal government and not state governments iirc
https://theconversation.com/five-types-of-gun-laws-the-founding-fathers-loved-85364
The only “restriction” there are relevant to control was registration. But that wasn’t to control that was to require you had at least one weapon. If your job requires you have steel-toed boots, that doesn’t limit your ownership of other boots.
You don’t consider safe storage laws, banning open and concealed carry, and loyalty oaths to fall under gun control? If not, then 👍.
You would have to register all your guns and they were inspected to make sure at least one was in working order. That is if you owned a gun. Some states did require you to own one unless you feel under one of the myriad of exemptions they allowed.
But yeah, if you don’t consider those things control, I’m largely fine with your level of what most would consider control.