I have been looking through a long thread on another instance where a few users have been trying to convince that instance to defederate from Exploding Heads - because they do not want to see the content posted on Exploding Heads.
I have thought long and hard about how to please these people. They do have the option to individually block Exploding Heads communities or users, but they either do not know how to or simply do not want to.
In the end I realized if I ban those specific users requesting defederation from Exploding Heads - they will not see any content from Exploding Heads and therefore will not be offended by it. (Truth be told I am not sure if some of these users have really visited our site or interacted with our users).
So today I have banned those users with the explanation that they have said they do not want to see Exploding Heads content. If any of those users wish to be unbanned in the future, all they have to do is say so and I will happily unban them.
These users are not being banned in order to censor them, but to help them achieve what they have been requesting - to not see Exploding Heads content.
I hope you all find this a fair and reasonable action - if not let me know.
Considering the entire point of places like this is to weaponize social media for far right forces, color me skeptical. Though I guess Imaybe they are still in a “protecting the movement” phase of “Nazis ruin everything” so maybe it makes sense.
Edit - I see what’s going on here. Op is a right wing troll. Do not feed the troll.
ok so serious question, why do you (& others) say they’re nazis? I’ve checked the instance and haven’t seen anything that reminds me of nazism.
just perusing the communities tab over there, I saw TheDonald, a covid-19 subreddit with a conspiratorial tone, and “anarcho-capitalism”. While these things aren’t inherently nazi, they have a common association with right wing bigotry at the very least, and often appeal to fascists.
Good ol “not all Trumpists, covid conspiracy theorists, and anarcho-capitalists are fascists, but all fascists are Trumpists, covid conspiracy theorists, and anarcho-capitalists.”
i understand that thedonald and donald trump is often associated with fascism, i don’t really understand why this is the case, since as far as i know, fascism is a militaristic state. I do get that it has a lot in common since it’s a paternalistic one-man figure which appeals to reactionaries that would advocate to leave aside the law to put the guy in charge of reforming the country and removing something.
i’m not very sure if that’s really fascism or not, i’d say it’s eh, dumb authoritarianism. covid conspirationalism, i’ve seen that shit in venezuela from ppl who were just randos who didn’t know anything, ppl who said it was the 5g or china or whatever, i didn’t see any political alignment to being dumb and gullible
the one that strikes me the most from your list is anarcho-capitalism, which is often associated with a “nation” without a government, much less a president or a dictator, which i thought was an absolute requirement for fascism and authoritarianism. i’m not very sure how this one could even approach being nazism.
Alright I make it a point to try and engage people in good-faith, so I’m gonna actually try to explain why. I think that in practical terms, fascism is an ideology who’s mythic core relies on ultra-nationalist rhetoric involving “rebirth” of the nation. (this is from Roger Griffin in his book “Fascism”, which I learned from this medium essay) In this way, Trump, and many in the GOP in his footsteps, resemble this with their talk of “making america great again” and “taking their country back”, rejection of multilateralism in favor of “America First”, and the demonisation of outgroups (be it immigrants, queer people, muslims, etc), for example. hence the association.
The linked article does say that Trump is not fascist, but was written in 2019, before Trump did actively try to circumvent the peaceful transfer of power. It ends with the following:
Succinctly describing the current administration might not be a possibility until we have the benefit of hindsight. In the meantime, it’s the duty of all Americans to remain vigilant, and to continue to fight for democracy.
With anarcho-capitalism, you are right in the sense that the ideology as stated would be a capitalism society without a State (or government, as you put it) - but many ancaps do hold views against interracial and same-sex marrage, which often leads to them adopting other common fascist views like racial segregation, religious fundamentalism, etc.
thank you, i understand now the trump fascist perspective
i’m still feeling a bit left out on the anarcho-capitalist fascist perspective tho. Anarchists have a long history of wanting to use violence to get out of an authoritarian system. I’d say that’s a similarity with fascism where they would circumvent the law to put themselves and their views first. But I’m not sure that’s enough for that, as you did say that “as stated”, it is an ideology that seeks to have a society without a ‘state’ or ‘government’.
Is being racist, homophobic and monogamist and otherwise moralistic with some skewed morals enough to be called a fascist? Or to point toward being a fascist? Again afaik fascism is like Hitler or Mussolini where ppl decide “this figure is great and we need to break the law to get them absolute power, they will be equivalent to a king and will favor our people”.
Is being racist, homophobic and monogamist and otherwise moralistic with some skewed morals enough to be called a fascist
Not necessarily (although it does make one a bigot), but taking part in an organised political movement to enshrine that racism, homophobia, and
monogamismtraditional marriage (that’s what I hear the Right refer to it as) into law and to advocate the use of violence to enforce their view of sex, race, and religion onto other people is fascistic. Think of it like a square and rectangle. All squares (fascists) are rectangles, but not all rectangles (right wing) are fascists. At the end of the day, fascists do need to appeal to a broad enough segment of the population beyond their most devoted base in order to gain power, so they’ll do that by appealing to common prejudices and fears held by people, which can in turn radicalise them further.That said, people on the right wing or conservative end of the political spectrum who identify as anti-authoritarian still, somewhat hypocritically, tend to believe in hierarchical structures elsewhere, be it familial, economic, racial, or sexual. In fact, many libertarians and “anarcho-capitalists” simultaneously argue for increased police funding while complaining about government tyranny.
I do want to be fair to those who identify as being right wing but do honestly leave other people alone (like New Hampshire-style libertarianism), but I believe that a confrontation between their wish for small government and the broader goals of their other right wing allies is inevitable, and that they will either be forced to abandon their stated limited government values.
Anarchists have a long history of wanting to use violence to get out of an authoritarian system
Yes, and the rest of the anarchist movement has largely disowned anarcho-capitalism. Many political philosophies have long held that violence is justified when it’s an oppressed people trying to end their oppression.
From the wikipedia article on ancapism
In a theoretical anarcho-capitalist society, the system of private property would still exist and be enforced by private defense agencies and/or insurance companies selected by customers, which would operate competitively in a market and fulfill the roles of courts and the police.
A core part of political anarchism is the belief that capitalism is another unjust form of hierarchy that must be dismantled. Anarcho-capitalists, by definition, support an unrestrained form of capitalism wherein instead of using the State as a tool of violence through civil institutions like the police and military, corporations are able to do it themsleves by having their own private police forces and armies.
Everyone I don’t like is a troll.
That’s an interesting strategy tbh. Remind me of “you have been banned from r/Pyongyang”. Honestly the people screaming defederation is more annoying and more active than the community they are screaming at, so I am all for this approach.
Maybe when the technology is more mature, this process will be done through automated bot. That’s something to think about too.
It’s an interesting thing to watch evolve and grow. Can’t wait to see if lemmy gets big enough to become like reddit. There’ll be so much drama.
there will be way more drama on the fediverse if it gets that big. get your popcorn ready.
Butter’s already melting
It’ll be like the days of message board battles/invasions times ten. I’m okay with that, if we have to pick a poison.
Awesome. Can you guys just ban me now, or do I have to start a “defederate the fashy chuds” thread first?
Just a block will do.
Reasonable, I think. It seems there’s a faction of users going all or nothing across the instances, holding pitchforks and clutching their pearls, screaming, “Defederate or doom is upon us!” Man, I can block something if I don’t want to see it. Or the alternative they chose, personal ban. It’s not the end of times. I want to believe instances are trying to reach a middle ground here to preserve the spirit of federation.
These users will get bored and move back to Reddit eventually. They’ve done so on every other reddit alternative, it’s nothing new.
You’re wrong. I’ll never use the site again. Reddit wasn’t the first and isn’t the only option.
Well that’s certainly an interesting strategy, let’s see how that works out
Seems fair to me.
Though I think those who don’t like this instance should just block the communities and move on.
I don’t really have any complaints about it (I mean about them blocking users not their content), I guess they don’t have a lot of tools to reduce visibility. But I really should have put “Positive reaction to instance mass banning users who complain” on my lemmy drama bingo card this morning because I did not see that coming
A perfect solution would be a “Block Instance” function, hopefully they work on that. Lemmy is still very new.
I do this for nsfw content i see on all, i just block the community so I don’t see it on this account. Don’t want that popping up while in public.
Agreed, exploding heads is not for me, so I block and move on. I am new so I still use All to see what’s going on and find new content. This NIMBY ‘let’s defederate’ seems counterproductive. Looking at you beehaw.
I’ve noticed it’s the same few users making the same de-federation argument and spreading it everywhere.
They’re probably also the same people putting -2 on all your comments lol.
They are. I don’t really care though since the downvote does literally nothing.
I think they have some excellent points. I’ve been lurking in both instances and have yet to see any explodingheads users exploring outside of their instance (except one guy who said they made an account to cause dissent in the exploding-heads instance).
They are a tiny instance with only 40 Users per week (This is increased due to other instances peeking inside). If you look across their top posts all week, or even their hot page, you’ll see that there are only a few active users. Their top post this week only has 18 upvotes. Comparatively, sh.it has 424 upvotes.
Block the active posters and communities, and you won’t see them ever.
This proves my point. Most of those examples are from the same few users in the same communities.
Block them. Easy peasy.
“If there’s a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis”
I get what you’re saying, but why associate with a place that allows people like that in the first place?
Don’t associate with them if you don’t want to. You don’t have to go to their communities on their instances. If they come here and break the rules then they will be banned for breaking our rules.
The ability for you to ‘leave the table’, so to speak, is already available to you. You just don’t sit down in the first place, don’t click on their communities and don’t visit their instance.
If someone posts something you don’t like on another community then either report them for breaking that community’s instance’s rules or block them so you don’t have to see their posts.
It isn’t up to you to decide what other users on this instance can view or respond to. You can curate your own block list. You can’t tell me how to curate my block list.
They aren’t neo-nazis.
🤔
I was a 12 year user and they banned me permanently on the 6th, during a blackout, for “harassment”, on a comment that was mild and simply complained about r/politics moderators and shared my true experience of being banned from politics after a decade of use for saying, “only a fool links opinion pieces as evidence.”. Would love to prove it but they removed my comment and I haven’t been able to track it down subsequently.
Anyone have any ideas how to get it? I’d like to send my story to some journalists while Reddit is a hot topic to show they ban long term users who didn’t break rules simply because they don’t like what the user is saying.
https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/146ovat/comment/jnsj3w0
Sorry to be insensitive, but I don’t think that’s a hot scoop.
I don’t think that’s insensitive. I think claiming a 12 year user is harassing people and permanently banning them, because they complained about subjective moderation, is evidence of how poorly run Reddit is. I don’t need an article about me but it’s damning evidence and can certainly be beneficial to these authors who already are writing about Reddit and have an audience. But I have nothing to share if I can’t get a hold of my comment.
Doesn’t solve the larger problems, but if I’m blocked that does make me happy that I can’t see their content as of right now.
Wait what, am I understanding this right, sh.itjust.works is federated with the nazis? Oof, well, enjoy I guess lol.
They’re not Nazis. The Neo-Nazi instance has defederated itself from all communities.
You’re not even from sh.it.
I took a look at it once and I think I‘m fairly good at spotting dogwhistles, which this was full of. Anyway it‘s you guy‘s instance and you can do what you want with it.
And I‘m asking cause I do indeed have a user on sh.it, but don‘t worry, I won‘t use it anymore. If you want me to not comment at all, maybe defederate from kbin or block me lol.
You know exploding heads is not defederated from kbin either right?
I’m aware, yes. That should probably be a discussion they should have on their own instance.
No I didn‘t know and that is actually sad. Could you tell me where to see that?
Lixus98 linked it earlier
Thank you! Still struggling a bit with the links on here.
It seems the good thing on kbin is, through that link you gave me I could block the entire instance myself, which is nice. Hopefully they’ll add that on lemmy too and then all that would be less of an issue.
I don’t want that at all. I want you to stay and talk.
I am OOTL. What is “explodingheads” Is it a lemmy instance?
It’s a separate instance that has only like 20-something active users. Their modlog is pretty vigilant in taking down bigoted content that uses slurs, but there’s still discussion of some controversial topics.
Your best method is visiting their instance and coming to a conclusion by yourself.
Yes; it seems to be a fash instance or otherwise just full of hateful garbage.
Problem solved.
Not at all… You’re allowing the problematic users to continue causing problems.
Explain how defederating them will stop them from causing problems? They can just as easily make an account over here to mess with us if they wanted.
If anything you’re the one poking the hornet’s nest. The OP is literally them trying not to offend or bother our users. Just let them be and everything will be fine.
Because the entire point of these places is to weaponize social media for far right propaganda purposes.
Most won’t bother creating a new account just to bother users on other instances.
Defederation doesn’t prevent them from posting here, we just won’t see their comments. It doesn’t prevent us from posting there if we want to either.
Lol what?
That’s exactly what defederation does, it will prevent them from posting here and us from posting there.
No, I can still post on Beehaw, only people federated with sh.itjust.works can see my messages
No, you can’t. You’re posting on sh.itjust.works’s copy of beehaw’s thread. Being defederated with them, not a single beehaw user will see your comment. Only users from your specific instance will.
Yes and that’s exactly the point of defederating from an instance? They can do whatever they please on their side, we don’t need to see it.
If the only people who can see the messages are local users, than you’re not really posting on Beehaw, you’re posting on sh.itjust.works
It’s still replying to a discussion started on a beehaw community. All replies federated or not are “on your instance”, only users on instances federated with yours can see your messages.
If we defederate from EH they’ll still be able to post here and users from [insert instance federated with EH] would see their messages when looking at the post on our instance.
Have you gone onto the beehaw instance directly to see if your posts are there? From what i’m aware it’s possible to post in the snapshot of a defederated instance but it won’t actually reach that site.
The only threads that should be on your instance are the ones from prior to defederation
Thanks for the clarification!
@[email protected] is a bit of a troll, don’t expect a discussion. They’ve been following my posts and comments for a while now. Report and move on.
I never forced you to reply to the messages I posted and you disagreed with 🤷
Yet you continue to follow me and spam the same emoji on my comments. Your post history is public.
Stop replying to me if you don’t like it… Or… Block me?
That’s your solution with exploding heads users isn’t it? People should block the users that post comments they don’t like and the mods shouldn’t intervene… Yet you’re saying I should be reported to the mod? Isn’t that hypocritical on your part?
Stop replying to you? But you replied to me first.
And no, I’m not going to block you. That’s against the values of this community. See in the sidebar,
Remember, every voice matters and your contribution can make a difference. We believe that through open dialogue, mutual respect, and a shared commitment to discovery, we can foster a community that embodies the democratic spirit of the Agora in our modern world.
How? They remain in their own instance.
if they’re remaining on their own instance, what’s the problem with defederating from them?
why did you link to a chain I already responded to?
Because it’s still relevant to what you’re saying.
You: They stick to their own instance
Me: Here’s the proof they’re not
But all of the communities and controversial posts are posted inside the exploding-heads instance.
When copying the permalink to a message in a discussion the link is to the commenting user’s instance even if it was posted on a community that’s not on their instance. Both links are provided are from discussions on sh.itjust.works main community.
