• mean_bean279@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        They legalized mushrooms and some other drugs and then (if I recall) made it to where possession wasn’t a crime. Half of Oregon (I imagine you can identify it based on population density) now most likely thinks legalizing drugs means allowing the bad behavior that comes from some of its users. Rather than realizing that alcohol is legal and has bad users as well that cause major harm to our communities but we wouldn’t dare take that away again.

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          I live in Indiana right on the central Illinois border. Weed is legal in Illinois but illegal in Indiana. You would think all those towns by the Indiana border would welcome the tax revenue from having dispensaries in them (Michigan towns do this to attract Indiana buyers). Nope. Those redneck counties decided that crime would run rampant in their little towns and passed resolutions banning dispensaries.

          People from around here still go to Illinois to buy weed. They just drive an hour to do it. It’s worth it to them, but they would definitely buy more often if it was one county over. And while we’re not a huge city, it’s a decent enough sized market that they would definitely get a lot of business. Morons.

          • Dontfearthereaper123@lemm.ee
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            9 months ago

            I know someone who has actually. They didn’t actually harm anyone but they did wave a knife around and it 100% would’ve got bad had they not been tackled to the ground. This shouldn’t stop u from doing shrooms tho just know your limits.

            • SokathHisEyesOpen@lemmy.ml
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              9 months ago

              Yikes! Must have been a very bad trip. That sounds more like defensive behavior though, rather than violent intent.

              You really shouldn’t tackle people who are holding knives. I was watching Cops once and this lady was waving around an 8" chef’s knife. One cop tackled her and the knife ended up embedded to the hilt in her chest. Idk if she died, but she was definitely fucked up.

      • Encode1307@lemm.ee
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        9 months ago

        Drugs were decriminalized. Crime and overdose has gone up everywhere but a majority of Oregonians seem to believe that decriminalization is the cause.

        • fosforus@sopuli.xyz
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          9 months ago

          Why did crime and overdosing go up everywhere then? I’m for legalization, but that seems a bit too coincidental to just ignore.

          • bufordt@sh.itjust.works
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            9 months ago

            Crime and overdoses went up across the country, not just in states where drugs were decriminalized.

      • Encode1307@lemm.ee
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        9 months ago

        I wish it was just those mouth breathers. It’s also people sick of seeing people smoking fentanyl in Portland, but like I said, that’s happening in most cities, not just Portland

      • mean_bean279@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        No, Oregon by comparison to a large swath of states is definitely on the top end of intelligence. But 48% of a state is definitely still not happy about drug legalization and decriminalization. That’s just something we will deal with as political attitudes change.

        • angrymouse@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          Someone can be unhappy with drug legalization, but believing in strawman to support your point is not cool

          • mean_bean279@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            You literally responded to someone who said “this is half of Oregon” and then proceeded to strawman your own foolish opinion that the state must be stupid.

            Do you understand what being a hypocrite is or do you just actively engage in comments in bad faith?

  • SadSadSatellite @lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    9 months ago

    I’m interested in what the harsher dui laws have done to drunk driving rates. Are less people doing it and less people dying? Or are there just a lot more fines and arrests from people driving home from restaurants and bars?

    I’ll clarify I refuse to drive with more than two beers in me, I really only have more than that at home, but I do feel like the somewhat arbitrary alcohol limits seem harsh And the fact you can be pulled over and forced into a BAC test for really any reason feels a little ‘Minority Report’.

    Again I’m not condoning drunk driving, just interested in the shift in effected lives.

    • HiddenLayer5@lemmy.ml
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      9 months ago

      Better public transportation, walkable streets, and non car-centric urban planning in general has done far more to prevent drunk driving than harsher laws. Data shows that the incidence of DUIs are more or less proportional to the need for residents in a city to drive in general. DUIs are rarely premeditated, purposeful crimes. Very few people are at the bar rubbing their hands together as they down their fourth shot, anticipating the moment when they get behind the wheel. The vast majority of DUIs are the result of poor planning and poor decisions when you just want to get home, and in situations like that the threat of punishment or simply the voice of their conscience is also a lot more likely to be ignored. Providing easy alternatives to droving goes a long way to preventing DUIs. People are way less likely to be in a position to DUI when the metro is the most convenient way to and from the bar.

    • tenchiken@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      9 months ago

      BAC limits are at least supposed to be based on averages recorded from “test subjects were impaired / affected at this level or higher”… It’s not a bad metric to use in itself, but the level applied and how it’s enforced are definitely able to be questioned harder.

      The fact that cops use “they seemed influenced” as a catch all to threaten and excuse shitty behavior is the bigger problem by far. It’s squarely under the other traffic laws in my mind … While well intentioned, the vast majority of people will just behave the same regardless. Only 2 real things happen:

      1. Abuse of said laws for monetary / power gains
      2. Actual death/harm caused by major infractions holds a real chance at penalty or enforcement

      Balancing between them is the bigger problem.

      Ultimately, societal change on personal responsibility would be the better solution, but humans will always be “but I should be allowed to break the rule because I won’t hurt anyone!”… Or they are sociopathic and just don’t care if their fun hurts others.

      • SadSadSatellite @lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        9 months ago

        I think BAC is probably the best real indicator we have, the issue that stands out to me about it is (unsure if state or national) the legal limit has been lowered twice in my memory, and it was due to groups like MAAD pushing, not scientific studies.

        Note: MAAD was just an example I chose, I really know nothing about them. They could be complete abolishonists or concerned citizens, I have no opinion.

        • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          Just FYI it stands for Mothers Against Drunk Driving. They are MADD not MAAD. I remember the church bus accident on I-71 in Kentucky. That’s when they got a ton of political capital.

        • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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          9 months ago

          In my opinion, I have no problem lowering the BAC floor. You cannot tell when you’re too drunk to drive. It’s much safer to just follow the maxim of if you’re going to drink, don’t drive; if you’re going to drive, don’t drink. It’s so easy to not drink alcohol. Easier than drinking even; you just have to not buy it.

          My opinion might be skewed because I know several alcoholics who insist that they’re good (if not “better”) drivers when they’re buzzed. I hate my city’s drug culture. People treat me like a damn unicorn because I don’t use alcohol, nicotine, or THC.

          • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            Easier than drinking even; you just have to not buy it.

            I don’t buy more than 1 beer when I go out. I end up drinking 4-5 because people buy me drinks for singing. I literally sing for my supper liquid bread.

    • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      Harsher laws don’t reduce crime. We have over 40 years of data in the US to corroborate that. They just increase your prison population.

    • Alien Nathan Edward@lemm.ee
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      9 months ago

      https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36178871/

      Conclusion: There was a marginally significant [p = 0.07] higher incidence rate of drunk-driving episodes among residents of states with no minimum jail sentence compared to those in states with a minimum jail sentence for the first time DUI.

      Minimum sentences for first offense are correlated with lower rates of drunk driving. This doesn’t prove causation, of course, and continuing to ratchet up sentencing will obviously have diminishing returns, but it does seem to help a bit.

  • satans_crackpipe@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    The pfp for that NIMBY/whatabout troll account is perfect. I can smell her room full of horse posters and chintzy crucifixes.

  • Auzy@beehaw.org
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    9 months ago

    I wouldn’t say murdered with words. I’ve been threatened by multiple people who are on meth. And there are even worse drugs out there which make people irrational

    There are some drugs which should never be legalised. Furthermore, stuff like cigerettes are harming other people

    My housemate had a serious addiction problem with weed too, and it’s hard for him to stay off it if it was more readily available

    • mycatiskai@lemmy.one
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      9 months ago

      The tens of thousands of people, if not more who are murdered by their alcoholic partners who would say that alcohol is a lot worse than marijuana.

      If you decriminalize even hard drugs it allows people to take it under supervision in places like safe injection sites that also give them access to social services that will help them quit using drugs.

      Portugal has had way fewer drug issues since they decriminalized it. Treating it like a medical issue instead of treating it like a criminal issue solves problems instead of creating more problems such as imprisoning people for drug offenses, stealing to pay for drugs.

      This obviously costs money which people don’t like paying for in their taxes, but a healthy member of a society is a lot cheaper than a drug user costing the rest of us when they end up in an emergency room.

      • Auzy@beehaw.org
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        9 months ago

        And thats a VERY good point.

        Alcohol is decriminalised, and is a SERIOUS issue. Just like Nicotine is. People keep trying to quit, but they can’t because smokes and alcohol are available everywhere you turn. Making these things more accessible isn’t a solution.

        Alcohol should be banned too (our ex housemate was an alcoholic).

        This isn’t a case of “oh, but weed is less harmful”. In fact, I just realised I have 2 housemates who had weed problems. The second one told me explicitly moved from her household because her family all had a serious weed and alcohol problem, and she felt less exposed to it in my house.

        People on drugs like ICE here are already treated like a medical problem, and it hasn’t helped. At least if its treated as a criminal issue courts can order them to go to rehab.

        But yes, I think we’d all be more comfortable if Alcohol was banned too (or strongly controlled)

        • flerp@lemm.ee
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          9 months ago

          Yeah they tried banning alcohol… have you ever considered reading history and learning from it?

          Making things illegal doesn’t make them not available, it crates a black market for them which generates more crime and violence, makes them dangerous to obtain, and makes it so that people addicted to the substances can’t get help to get off of them. It is all-around worse.

          • Auzy@beehaw.org
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            9 months ago

            Alcohol is still banned in some countries… A world does exist outside US.

            Here in Australia, in NT having alcohol readily accessible was a huge disaster. There are laws to heavily restrict it in areas with a drinking problem and they do help. It was literally requested by the communities most affected. No there isn’t some weird crime syndicate

            And if you speak to social workers, they will tell you having it so easily available isn’t a good thing

    • Gamey@feddit.de
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      9 months ago

      And the fact that meth is illegal is the main and only reason such a thread is illegal in your mind? …

      • Auzy@beehaw.org
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        9 months ago

        Nope. I could give you lots of reasons ranging from car crashes caused by drugs, psychosis caused by many of them, look at NT in Australia where they heavily control alcohol, etc

        I’ve seen people’s lives affected by this crap… and the number of times druggies try to drag others into their addiction by telling them “it’s totally safe” is common

        And just to further this, some drugs affect others due to second hand smoke.

        Lets be real, the main people who want to legalise drugs are doing so because they want weed too be legal. But if you speak to people who have recovered from weed addiction ( I know 2), they’ll probably tell you it needs to remain controlled. If you speak to recovering ridiculous alcoholics, they’ll tell you having alcohol surrounding them isn’t a good thing

        We can agree to disagree I guess.

        • Gamey@feddit.de
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          9 months ago

          I would like to agree to disagree but your post is as manipulative as it gets! Nobody here wants uncontrolled drugs, just not criminalized aka hunting sick people to a point where they have to refuse any kind of help unless they want to end up in fucking jail. Also, the legilazation of all drugs isn’t a matter of legalizing weed, every scientific evidence we have on this entire planet points to the fact that people consume the drugs they prefer no matter if they go to jail for it or not and that you can live a healthy and happy live no matter which one you choose. To deny someone the drug they prefer (be that alcohol, sugar or fucking meth) is as much of a overreach as telling people how/who to fuck and at least in my mind we are past the time of religous states so this shit is outdated af and should immediately be revoked entirely!

          • Auzy@beehaw.org
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            9 months ago

            Yeah… Until it affects everyone else. It’s not manipulative. I’m telling you my experience.

            The Tabacco and Alcohol industry has shown legalising drugs doesn’t work. In fact, Tabacco even went Tabacco 2.0, and started marketing vapes as a “safe alternative”, and because of that, once again, we’re all dealing with assholes now who are literally ARGUING with us that “it’s just water vapor”

            So yes, agree to disagree.