The same organization is making it very clear that this is not proof because they only have publicly available Intel.
The group cited several clips believed to be of the explosion from different sources and claimed the “geolocation and timing of the footage is conclusive”. However, they said their conclusions are not “proven fact”.
“That doesn’t mean that they are THE truth, just what we think is highly likely based on our geolocations(facts) and logic/reason,” they wrote on Twitter.
“We are geolocators, not official investigators… To be sure what really happened, different official investigations are needed.”
Israel and the US have more intelligence that could definitely prove what happened…
But for some reason they aren’t releasing it. Most logical reason is it shows Israel launched it, or blew up the hospital while trying to shoot a rocket down.
If it cleared Israel, that satellite footage would be out by now. Gaza is too tiny for me to believe Israel just wasn’t surveiling it at the time.
You think intelligence agencies would release primary source data that could reveal collection methods and fidelity to other nation state intelligence agencies just to win PR points?
There’s only one individual I can think of that would do something like that, and he’s currently facing charges relating to his handling of classified materials.
Is that really the most logical conclusion to be drawn? It’s been less than a day, and I would really hope intellegince services are more diligent than your average twitter sleuth. Id rather they be right than first, personally.
Also what satellite footage are you talking about?
You dont think Israel has satellites looking at Gaza?
It’s a very very small area, and missiles/rockets are more than visible enough. It should be really easy to see if it came from Israel or further in Gaza.
Hamas doesn’t have satellites, so it makes sense they can’t offer proof.
If Israel wants people to believe them in 2023, they need to understand they’ve already burnt up their benefit of doubt.
Not OP but my read on this is that OP is suggesting that Israel or the US should have a recording of the rocket being fired that would have been captured by a satellite and could be shared.
Obviously there are images that have been published showing the destruction, but it’s not clear to me how looking at a picture of rubble would help to establish the origin of the rocket fire.
Given how many bombs have been dropped in Gaza (), it’s easy for me to imagine that the destruction of this Palestinian hospital was due to an errant Israeli bomb, but pretty difficult to imagine that a Hamas soldier with bad aim accidentally took out one of their only hospitals. From the outside, it feels like the burden of proof lies with the side that seems to be trying to flatten Gaza, not the side without access to food, water, electricity, or medical supplies.
Having said that, I sincerely doubt that this will be the last atrocity committed by either side before this is over, so I doubt that we will ever get any evidence that is truly conclusive.
it’s easy for me to imagine that the destruction of this Palestinian hospital was due to an errant Israeli bomb, but pretty difficult to imagine that a Hamas soldier with bad aim accidentally took out one of their only hospitals.
Maybe it’s because your missing context. Depending on the type of rocket fired, Palestine rockets generally fail to leave the Gaza Strip between 5-20% of the time. A small imperfection in the steel of a water pipe may not cause a failure for 100 years of used to transport water. But that same imperfection can easily buckle under the load of sever g’s during rocket launch. Hundreds of people have died in Gaza from Gazan rockets that didn’t make it to target and it’s standard practice for Hamas to blame am Israeli airstrike for the rocket’s failure.
Oh yeah that totally makes sense, and I’m not excluding the possibility that it could have been Hamas. Both sides are involved in some pretty fucked up shit, nobody’s hands are clean here.
In this case we have one side who conducted a hostage raid and slaughtered civilians living in kibbutz (which are essentially the Jewish equivalent to the Amish or Mennonites), started a war as the aggressors, have launched 2-20k rockets of various types at Israel somce the atart of hostilities (widely disputed), has been car bombing people trying to evacuate (and falsely blamed it on an Israeli airstrike), admittedly accidentally bombed a hospital (and falsely blamed it on an Israeli airstrike).
There’s one side here who is clearly more wrong than the other.
And againOne quick google search brings you to satellite pictures of the damage published by Israel (and also by other non biased news sources)
Just search for it, please. I understand you have your agenda but come on don’t let it hide truths and evidence.
I don’t understand. Ya’ll think Israel is gonna burn an intelligence asset they have by making it public just so people who are already convinced by one narrative (because underdogs are always easier to support) have proof of one attack not being their own? They have better use for that intelligence. Like fighting a war.
And the resolution of those satellites is literally a state secret. You won’t ever see direct imaging from them being released publicly.
Edit: Also US intelligence said this assessment comes in part based on communications intercepts, which you are definitely never seeing directly released unless leaked.
But it’s less about trying to convince you personally that the idea USINT would release satellite images to back up claims by Israel is ridiculous, and more about providing the context for anyone else that follows on the conversations’ wake.
If it was about you personally, I’d have direct messaged.
And blocking people that disagree with points online is kind of puerile, so that’s not a place my mind ever went to.
But feel free to block if you want. Again - it’s not about you.
The same organization is making it very clear that this is not proof because they only have publicly available Intel.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/gaza-hospital-explosion-likely-caused-by-missile-fired-from-palestine-analysts-claim/ar-AA1ipms3
Israel and the US have more intelligence that could definitely prove what happened…
But for some reason they aren’t releasing it. Most logical reason is it shows Israel launched it, or blew up the hospital while trying to shoot a rocket down.
If it cleared Israel, that satellite footage would be out by now. Gaza is too tiny for me to believe Israel just wasn’t surveiling it at the time.
You think intelligence agencies would release primary source data that could reveal collection methods and fidelity to other nation state intelligence agencies just to win PR points?
There’s only one individual I can think of that would do something like that, and he’s currently facing charges relating to his handling of classified materials.
Are you talking about former president Donald Buttcheeks?
Is that really the most logical conclusion to be drawn? It’s been less than a day, and I would really hope intellegince services are more diligent than your average twitter sleuth. Id rather they be right than first, personally.
Also what satellite footage are you talking about?
You dont think Israel has satellites looking at Gaza?
It’s a very very small area, and missiles/rockets are more than visible enough. It should be really easy to see if it came from Israel or further in Gaza.
Hamas doesn’t have satellites, so it makes sense they can’t offer proof.
If Israel wants people to believe them in 2023, they need to understand they’ve already burnt up their benefit of doubt.
Bro 1 quick google search and you have a satellite image of the hospital. Ya’ll just don’t wanna believe anything Israel says at this point.
Not OP but my read on this is that OP is suggesting that Israel or the US should have a recording of the rocket being fired that would have been captured by a satellite and could be shared.
Obviously there are images that have been published showing the destruction, but it’s not clear to me how looking at a picture of rubble would help to establish the origin of the rocket fire.
Given how many bombs have been dropped in Gaza (
), it’s easy for me to imagine that the destruction of this Palestinian hospital was due to an errant Israeli bomb, but pretty difficult to imagine that a Hamas soldier with bad aim accidentally took out one of their only hospitals. From the outside, it feels like the burden of proof lies with the side that seems to be trying to flatten Gaza, not the side without access to food, water, electricity, or medical supplies.
Having said that, I sincerely doubt that this will be the last atrocity committed by either side before this is over, so I doubt that we will ever get any evidence that is truly conclusive.
Maybe it’s because your missing context. Depending on the type of rocket fired, Palestine rockets generally fail to leave the Gaza Strip between 5-20% of the time. A small imperfection in the steel of a water pipe may not cause a failure for 100 years of used to transport water. But that same imperfection can easily buckle under the load of sever g’s during rocket launch. Hundreds of people have died in Gaza from Gazan rockets that didn’t make it to target and it’s standard practice for Hamas to blame am Israeli airstrike for the rocket’s failure.
Oh yeah that totally makes sense, and I’m not excluding the possibility that it could have been Hamas. Both sides are involved in some pretty fucked up shit, nobody’s hands are clean here.
In this case we have one side who conducted a hostage raid and slaughtered civilians living in kibbutz (which are essentially the Jewish equivalent to the Amish or Mennonites), started a war as the aggressors, have launched 2-20k rockets of various types at Israel somce the atart of hostilities (widely disputed), has been car bombing people trying to evacuate (and falsely blamed it on an Israeli airstrike), admittedly accidentally bombed a hospital (and falsely blamed it on an Israeli airstrike).
There’s one side here who is clearly more wrong than the other.
Yes…
Google maps is a thing, but Israel and the US has live satellite coverage. I guarantee Israels is pointed in that area
And again One quick google search brings you to satellite pictures of the damage published by Israel (and also by other non biased news sources) Just search for it, please. I understand you have your agenda but come on don’t let it hide truths and evidence.
deleted by creator
I don’t understand. Ya’ll think Israel is gonna burn an intelligence asset they have by making it public just so people who are already convinced by one narrative (because underdogs are always easier to support) have proof of one attack not being their own? They have better use for that intelligence. Like fighting a war.
Everyone knows they have satellites, it’s not like it’s an informant…
And the resolution of those satellites is literally a state secret. You won’t ever see direct imaging from them being released publicly.
Edit: Also US intelligence said this assessment comes in part based on communications intercepts, which you are definitely never seeing directly released unless leaked.
Serious off topic question:
Why do some people work their way down a comment chain replying to the same person multiple times?
Do you really want to have multiple simultaneous conversations with the same person?
Do you just not check the username and not know?
It happens a lot on Lemmy, so I’m genuinely curious why people do it, especially when they do it all within minutes
Because sometimes people post different ridiculous things along the way of other conversations that are incorrect in different ways.
A broad comment about releasing intelligence materials warranted one response.
A specific comment about releasing satellite imaging data warranted a different one.
Both poor hot takes, but for different reasons.
You could just block me so you never see my comments again
If I block you you’ll still see mine and keep spamming questions that will go forever unanswered, so figured I’d let you know about the option.
I’m not responding to you personally so much at responding in a communal thread to naive or incorrect points.
Again, this shouldn’t exactly be new news at this point, as stories on topics like how revealing satellite imaging reveals state secrets have been mainstream stories before (i.e. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanocallaghan/2019/09/01/trump-accidentally-revealed-the-amazing-resolution-of-u-s-spy-satellites/ ).
But it’s less about trying to convince you personally that the idea USINT would release satellite images to back up claims by Israel is ridiculous, and more about providing the context for anyone else that follows on the conversations’ wake.
If it was about you personally, I’d have direct messaged.
And blocking people that disagree with points online is kind of puerile, so that’s not a place my mind ever went to.
But feel free to block if you want. Again - it’s not about you.
Have you also considered the crab people ?