We welcome and appreciate the conflict mediation effort by the NLnet foundation (who have also provided grants to Organic Maps before).

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There is no answer to the Letter by Alexander Borsuk @biodranik.

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Roman Tsisyk @rtsisyk has published his answer in team Zulip chat, please read a copy #10555 (comment). He proposes to bring Organic Maps under an established non-profit umbrella organization like the Software Freedom Conservancy or Software in the Public Interest. We welcome this move as we made the same suggestion in the Letter, and we’ve been considering non-profit umbrellas as a “home” for a potential community fork. So we will gladly join a working group Roman has suggested to form as a first step.

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Viktor Govako @vng has posted his answer in the Organic Maps Telegram chat (https://t.me/organicmaps/52328):

  • Roman took away my access to all key resources of Organic Maps without my consent and refused to return it back. Github blocking in March was also a result of his actions.
  • I decided that I will no longer work with Roman in any format.
  • Roman offered to buy out his share in Organic Maps OÜ so that he could leave the OM project.
  • The offer to buy out the shares was sent to Roman’s lawyer three weeks ago. I have not received any clear response or counter-offer yet.
  • I had a conversation with NLNet where they offered to help in this situation. I will not refuse the idea of non-profit or some hybrid if it helps to conclude a “divorce” deal with Roman.

In addition Viktor has made some statements in the Russian-speaking OM Telegram chat, some of which we find significant (from https://t.me/OrganicMapsRu/78976 and onwards):
“Organic Maps now is a commercial company with an open source project” and its been like that since the company’s inception and from Viktor’s point of view the single mention of the Organic Maps OÜ name in the organicmaps.app website footer is enough information to convey the commercial nature of the project to the contributors.

Also Viktor has disclosed some more details about donations spending over past years (https://t.me/OrganicMapsRu/78745) and now there is an agreement both from Viktor and Roman to disclose full historic financial details to a few select community contributors. We welcome this first step towards financial transparency!

Unfortunately, Viktor’s answer concerns itself with the state of his conflict with Roman but it doesn’t really acknowledge or address concerns and questions raised in the Letter.

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We hope that Viktor accepts a proposition to change Organic Maps to a non-profit organization and that words will turn into real actions without undue delay.

In the meantime we will continue community fork preparations, as our community deserves an actively-developed app not stalled by disagreements and uncertain negotiations. Even if/when the fork is launched it won’t close the door for negotiations and cooperation, e.g. we may decide to rejoin Organic Maps if it implements compatible principles and policies eventually. Alternatively, we would be happy to accept transfers of Organic Maps assets/branding rights to the community fork.

We’ll post an update on the state and details of the fork shortly as well as any new developments in negotiations.

P.S. there is a fake signatures attack on the Letter. More than 14,000 fake signatures were added in a very short time by an unknown party, all of them unverified and hence not listed. We also unfortunately have no way to edit or remove spammy/abusive signatures. As of this update there were 179 verified signatures (thank you!).

  • Zwiebel@feddit.org
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    15 hours ago

    This update is very hard to read, there needs to be a clearer distinction between quotes from the owners and comments from the open letter people.

    Here is just the quotes:

    Roman Tsisyk:

    Thank you for taking the time to prepare this letter. I appreciate how it thoughtfully highlights the same critical issues (“Values clash,” “Financial clash,” and “Corporate clash”) that I initially raised in my internal “MAPS.ME 3.0” post on Zulip, while also bringing forward new, absolutely valid points that I fully recognize from my experience as a long-term contributor to open-source projects.

    It’s absolutely essential to learn from past experience and ensure that the history of this project does not repeat itself for one more time. A comprehensive retrospective process involving all relevant parties could help to find answers. However, we must act quickly to de-escalate the situation by addressing the major issues, or the retrospective could soon turn into a post-mortem.

    As a potential path forward, I am once again proposing the idea of bringing this project under the umbrella of an independent, well-respected organization specializing in the legal, administrative, and infrastructure support of Free/Libre and Open Source Software (FLOSS) projects, such as the Software Freedom Conservancy (https://sfconservancy.org/), Software in the Public Interest (https://www.spi-inc.org/), or similar.

    Following this path should eliminate current uncertainty, ensure legal protection of intellectual property, establish balanced governance involving all participants, and introduce transparent financial reporting for donations. It would also allow the project to resume work under the previously pre-approved grant. Moving under the umbrella of a suitable organization as described above could unlock new funding opportunities and enable donation collection through app stores — both critical for the project’s long-term sustainability.

    This is a raw idea for consideration and not a legal offer in its current form. The next concrete steps should be determined within a working group that includes Viktor & Roman, all authors of the Open Letter, other interested members of the project community, as well as non-affiliated independent FLOSS experts and legal consultants. As a first step, I am proposing that we agree on the formation of such a group.

    ###Viktor Govako: ####1:

    My answer is here:

    • Roman took away my access to all key >resources of Organic Maps without my consent and refused to return it back. Github blocking in March was also a result of his actions.
    • I decided that I will no longer work with Roman in any format.
    • Roman offered to buy out his share in Organic Maps OÜ so that he could leave the OM project.
    • The offer to buy out the shares was sent to Roman’s lawyer three weeks ago. I have not received any clear response or counter-offer yet.
    • I had a conversation with NLNet where they offered to help in this situation. I will not refuse the idea of ​​non-profit or some hybrid if it helps to conclude a “divorce” deal with Roman.

    ####2:

    Сейчас это комерческая компания с проектом в опен сорс. Это не противоречит друг другу.

    DeepL:
    “Now it’s a for-profit company with a project in Open Source. It’s not contradictory.”

    ####3:

    Погоди, я то как раз не говорю кто тут “хороший”. А вот Роман в своем письме берет лживый нарратив “Александр - вор”, для Виктора “компромата” не нашлось, потому пришлось высасывать из пальца “You see Viktor - you get Alexander as a bonus”. И цель этого письма была очернить коллег, и пишет он там гордо только про одну свою ошибку “I must admit that I made significant mistakes when setting up this project”, что цинично уже само по себе, хотя бы потому что “сетили” этот проект мы втроем, но узурпатор вдруг решил иначе.

    Ну и если ты внимательно посмотришь на тот тред, я просил разрешения у Романа (хотел соблюсти хоть какую этику, наивный :)) опубликовать детали по деньгам, а не ту херню, что он написал. Он мне конечно не ответил, и раз уж мы докатились до этой точки, то ложь и полуправда там везде, где есть числа денег:

    • “Александр тратил деньги на отели” следует читать как “Александр тратил на отели, Роман тратил на отели и своего визового агенства, Виктор тратить не мог, у него и карты то не было, но выводил себе паритетно как за работу”
    • “Средиземноморский отпуск Александра за 9К” следует читать как “… и визовые адвокаты для Романа за 6К”
    • “Александр получил на личный счет 3200 от Гсок” следует читать как “… и Роман получил донаты с РФ на свою личную карту в размере ~3000”
    • “In total, one way or another, Alexander drained around 27k EUR from this project during 2024” - это просто бред. За все время жизни, было потрачено фаундерами (с учетом еще лично вносимых денег): Виктор - 12000, Роман - 15000, Александр - 20000.

    Ну и чтобы два раза не вставать. Роман, как настоящий срыватель покров, этот файл с расходами с корпоративного диска удалил (благо была сделана копия), о чем есть эпичная переписка в личке на мой вопрос “зачем ты это сделал?”. Так же как настоящий Дартаньян, Роман 2 раза тер личные переписки со мной и один раз даже удалял аккаунт в телеге.

    DeepL:
    "Wait, I’m not saying who’s “good” here. But Roman in his letter takes a false narrative “Alexander is a thief”, there was no “dirt” for Viktor, so he had to suck “You see Viktor - you get Alexander as a bonus” out of his finger. And the purpose of this letter was to denigrate his colleagues, and he writes there proudly only about his one mistake “I must admit that I made significant mistakes when setting up this project”, which is cynical in itself, if only because we three “networked” this project, but the usurper suddenly decided otherwise.

    Well, if you look carefully at that thread, I asked Roman’s permission (I wanted to observe some ethics, naive :)) to publish the money details, not the bullshit he wrote. He didn’t answer me of course, and since we’re getting to that point, the lies and half-truths are out there wherever the money numbers are:

    • “Alexander spent money on hotels” should read as “Alexander spent money on hotels, Roman spent money on hotels and his visa agency, Victor could not spend money, he did not have a card, but withdrew it to himself in parity as a job”.
    • “Alexander’s 9K Mediterranean holiday” should be read as “… and visa lawyers for Roman for 6K.”
    • “Alexander received 3200 from Gsok on his personal account” should read as “… and Roman received ~3000 in donations from RF on his personal card.”
    • “In total, one way or another, Alexander drained around 27k EUR from this project during 2024” is just nonsense. During the whole life time, it was spent by funders (taking into account still personally deposited money): Victor - 12000, Roman - 15000, Alexander - 20000.

    And so that I don’t have to get up twice. Roman, as a real tearer of the veil, deleted this file with expenses from the corporate disc (a copy was made), about what there is an epic correspondence in a private message to my question “why did you do it?”. Also like a real Dartan, Roman 2 times tolerated personal correspondence with me and once even deleted my account in the cart."

    • SendMePhotos@lemmy.world
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      5 days ago

      Community contributors to Organic Maps have expressed serious concerns about the project’s governance, transparency, and the potential for shareholder profit at the expense of the community. They are calling for a shift to a nonprofit structure, greater inclusivity in decision-making, and financial transparency, and are considering starting a new project if these issues are not addressed.

      Lack of transparency in financial spending, people claiming ownership of project instead of it being a non profit.

    • pdxfed@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      Don’t follow at all but brief statements here make it look like Mini-Chat Gpt power struggle. Founders, one who wants to commercialize and cash in, no one else knew the greedy fuck sold out mentally long ago and he tried to screw them. They’re now divorcing and the project, the non-profit, community-driven model will split off.

    • eatham 🇭🇲@aussie.zone
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      4 days ago

      Osmand is decent, although a little slow. Make sure to download it from f-droid as you get the paid features for free that way. Also you can get hourly updates if you sign in with osm and have made a few edits.