It’s funny that this news is sparking talks of a reddit exodus, when way worse stuff that they do like monetizing all your data and privacy isn’t met with much outrage.
They’re basically trying to offer a Patreon/OnlyFans option which makes a lot of sense as a monetization strategy and doesn’t even seem that scummy if the subreddit creators themselves are opting into the format.
Yeah but there is a FOSS nature about it. At least ANYONE can do whatever they want with the comments and posts I make public instead of just whichever company pays reddit for API access.
And reddit has some legal jargon about co-owning the copyright to whatever you post over there but lemmy doesn’t so you technically have more protection here to your own intellectual property.
And privacy is a whole different can of worms as I don’t think ruud is harvesting telemetry to sell to advertisers and whatnot.
Yeah but there is a FOSS nature about it. At least ANYONE can do whatever they want with the comments and posts I make public instead of just whichever company pays reddit for API access.
I mean… True; it’s just I wouldn’t characterize Lemmy as superior on privacy. Ideally we’d figure out a way to fix that, but I’m not sure we can really.
And reddit has some legal jargon about co-owning the copyright to whatever you post over there but lemmy doesn’t so you technically have more protection here to your own intellectual property.
This I’m not so sure about. You aren’t handing over ownership rights when you sign up for most (any?) instance, but your ownership right is effectively null and void.
IANAL but arguably in a US court (at least) since Lemmy is effectively a true public place, you effectively lose the right to tell other people what they can do with your interactions.
And privacy is a whole different can of worms as I don’t think ruud is harvesting telemetry to sell to advertisers and whatnot.
That part is arguably true. It is harder to tie this data back to a particular user for the purposes of selling to advertisers.
You don’t lose your copyright just for posting it in a public space, even Reddit. But you do give reddit a perpetual, non-revokable, transferrable license to do basically whatever they want with your IP :
With Lemmy all that language of perpetual, non-revokable, transferrable goes away to my knowledge. You still wholely own your own IP if you decide you don’t want it on Lemmy anymore.
The law is largely down to who argues better in court. There is precedent for reduced rights in public spaces. e.g. if you go into the town square and talk to someone and it’s caught on the camera of the mother a park bench away that’s recording her child … that’s not an illegal recording and she has the copyright on said recording. You have no legal right to ask the mother to delete the recording or delete your audio from the recording, even in a two party consent space because you have no right to privacy in a public setting like that.
Similarly, when you post on Lemmy … it’s kind of good faith that if you delete something it actually gets deleted from the platform across all instances and that it’s not just visibility deleted but deleted from the databases under the hood.
You do “own your content” but it’s pretty meaningless ownership.
Written works are tangible and so have a copyright upon creation, just like the video in your example. That recording posted online “publicly” where anyone can see it free of charge wouldn’t change its copyright. Also private internet sites really aren’t “public” space in the ways most laws would define it, because it’s a server hosted by a private individual. We’re in ruud’s house right now so-to-speak. He has every right to censor us and show us the door if he so chooses.
By posting or commenting here (or on reddit for that matter) we don’t fully waive copyright to IP. If I write a unique poem here and some random person plagiarizes it and sells it I could still sue. But on reddit, if reddit decides to publish a book of “Best of reddit poems” or transfer that license to someone else I’m shit out of luck. On lemmy without the legalese I stand a good chance in court revoking the assumed license of my work and having a positive legal outcome.
I’m in my own house, notice the @social.packetlosss.gg; our “houses” are just talking and that continued conversation is subject to ruud’s and I’s discretion. The way federation works, really nobody “owns” the content, there’s just an agreement on what the primary copy is. There’s no support for this in the software currently, but you could conceptually change which server is the primary copy at any time. The protocol and to some extent the content on it exist in an intangible space.
IMO all Reddit did was strengthen their legal argument; they arguably already had the right to make a “book of reddit poems.” They just wanted to stack the deck on their side. Arguably you have the right to make a book of poems on Reddit.
At least Lemmy is open source and there isn’t any advanced analytics running and telling server operators exactly what you look at and for how long. And if there was, it would be discovered quickly and you could host your own instance and only look at content locally.
Your posts aren’t private. But that’s the whole point so that they can be seen and federated
A public forum (be it old school message boards, Reddit or Lemmy) is by definition not private. It’s more about the policies of a given platform; whether you do allow algorithmic content targeting and other schemes to “drive engagement”.
Most of the terrible stuff Reddit did only affected a tech-literate minority, at least knowingly. Most users didn’t use 3rd party apps so they didn’t even understand what the uproar was about, and we should know perfectly well people don’t care about their privacy.
In contrast, this change is likely to affect day-to-day habits of at least some people.
Privacy is invisible. Being barred from content unless you pay is highly visible. Most people only really care about whether their end user experience is affected. People cared when their favourite apps got shut down, but they don’t really give a shit their data is sold. We’ve been so desensitized to having our data sold these days that most people have stopped caring.
There is also an inherent kind of entitlement that people have. Putting the lack of visibility of privacy on the totem pole of priority, people like free things. When you start to charge them for an objectively worse service, you tend to piss off your user base.
Honestly that makes sense, they’re probably kicking themselves for it. They could have been the onlyfans or Patreon, and honestly back in the day I would have been for that
It’s funny that this news is sparking talks of a reddit exodus, when way worse stuff that they do like monetizing all your data and privacy isn’t met with much outrage.
They’re basically trying to offer a Patreon/OnlyFans option which makes a lot of sense as a monetization strategy and doesn’t even seem that scummy if the subreddit creators themselves are opting into the format.
People don’t value their privacy…
Honestly Lemmy is not a great platform for privacy either. Lots of your data is federated to other servers that can do whatever they want with it.
Yeah but there is a FOSS nature about it. At least ANYONE can do whatever they want with the comments and posts I make public instead of just whichever company pays reddit for API access.
And reddit has some legal jargon about co-owning the copyright to whatever you post over there but lemmy doesn’t so you technically have more protection here to your own intellectual property.
And privacy is a whole different can of worms as I don’t think ruud is harvesting telemetry to sell to advertisers and whatnot.
I mean… True; it’s just I wouldn’t characterize Lemmy as superior on privacy. Ideally we’d figure out a way to fix that, but I’m not sure we can really.
This I’m not so sure about. You aren’t handing over ownership rights when you sign up for most (any?) instance, but your ownership right is effectively null and void.
IANAL but arguably in a US court (at least) since Lemmy is effectively a true public place, you effectively lose the right to tell other people what they can do with your interactions.
That part is arguably true. It is harder to tie this data back to a particular user for the purposes of selling to advertisers.
You don’t lose your copyright just for posting it in a public space, even Reddit. But you do give reddit a perpetual, non-revokable, transferrable license to do basically whatever they want with your IP :
Found here under “your content”: https://redditinc.com/policies/user-agreement
With Lemmy all that language of perpetual, non-revokable, transferrable goes away to my knowledge. You still wholely own your own IP if you decide you don’t want it on Lemmy anymore.
The law is largely down to who argues better in court. There is precedent for reduced rights in public spaces. e.g. if you go into the town square and talk to someone and it’s caught on the camera of the mother a park bench away that’s recording her child … that’s not an illegal recording and she has the copyright on said recording. You have no legal right to ask the mother to delete the recording or delete your audio from the recording, even in a two party consent space because you have no right to privacy in a public setting like that.
Similarly, when you post on Lemmy … it’s kind of good faith that if you delete something it actually gets deleted from the platform across all instances and that it’s not just visibility deleted but deleted from the databases under the hood.
You do “own your content” but it’s pretty meaningless ownership.
Written works are tangible and so have a copyright upon creation, just like the video in your example. That recording posted online “publicly” where anyone can see it free of charge wouldn’t change its copyright. Also private internet sites really aren’t “public” space in the ways most laws would define it, because it’s a server hosted by a private individual. We’re in ruud’s house right now so-to-speak. He has every right to censor us and show us the door if he so chooses.
By posting or commenting here (or on reddit for that matter) we don’t fully waive copyright to IP. If I write a unique poem here and some random person plagiarizes it and sells it I could still sue. But on reddit, if reddit decides to publish a book of “Best of reddit poems” or transfer that license to someone else I’m shit out of luck. On lemmy without the legalese I stand a good chance in court revoking the assumed license of my work and having a positive legal outcome.
I’m in my own house, notice the @social.packetlosss.gg; our “houses” are just talking and that continued conversation is subject to ruud’s and I’s discretion. The way federation works, really nobody “owns” the content, there’s just an agreement on what the primary copy is. There’s no support for this in the software currently, but you could conceptually change which server is the primary copy at any time. The protocol and to some extent the content on it exist in an intangible space.
IMO all Reddit did was strengthen their legal argument; they arguably already had the right to make a “book of reddit poems.” They just wanted to stack the deck on their side. Arguably you have the right to make a book of poems on Reddit.
At least yall dont literally legally own my whole ass identity while im on lemmy
At least Lemmy is open source and there isn’t any advanced analytics running and telling server operators exactly what you look at and for how long. And if there was, it would be discovered quickly and you could host your own instance and only look at content locally.
Your posts aren’t private. But that’s the whole point so that they can be seen and federated
No it wouldn’t. People need to understand that open source provides 0 security against intentional abuses when there’s a networking layer involved.
I could be running an analysis on the data your instance handed to my instance just like Reddit is … and you would have absolutely no way of knowing.
A public forum (be it old school message boards, Reddit or Lemmy) is by definition not private. It’s more about the policies of a given platform; whether you do allow algorithmic content targeting and other schemes to “drive engagement”.
Yeah, I think the big selling point for me is not the privacy on Lemmy, but control of conversation.
Most of the terrible stuff Reddit did only affected a tech-literate minority, at least knowingly. Most users didn’t use 3rd party apps so they didn’t even understand what the uproar was about, and we should know perfectly well people don’t care about their privacy.
In contrast, this change is likely to affect day-to-day habits of at least some people.
Privacy is invisible. Being barred from content unless you pay is highly visible. Most people only really care about whether their end user experience is affected. People cared when their favourite apps got shut down, but they don’t really give a shit their data is sold. We’ve been so desensitized to having our data sold these days that most people have stopped caring.
There is also an inherent kind of entitlement that people have. Putting the lack of visibility of privacy on the totem pole of priority, people like free things. When you start to charge them for an objectively worse service, you tend to piss off your user base.
Honestly that makes sense, they’re probably kicking themselves for it. They could have been the onlyfans or Patreon, and honestly back in the day I would have been for that