• OpenStars@piefed.socialEnglish
    2·
    2 days ago

    I find this quite interesting.

    Are all tankies red fascists? If so, then isn’t it implied just by saying that? Or perhaps not bc maybe not everyone knows the former term while the latter spells it out explicitly…

    I have taken to calling them Alt-Left, bc of how they spew disinfo & misinfo and use identical argumentative forms as the Alt-Right - wanting to “win” at any cost, ignoring facts and logic and such in their pursuit of that goal.

    At a very naive guess, the word “fascism” may have a greater emotional impact upon Europeans, while Alt-Right might affect Americans more?

    • fxomt@lemm.ee
      3·
      2 days ago

      Are all tankies red fascists? If so, then isn’t it implied just by saying that? Or perhaps not bc maybe not everyone knows the former term while the latter spells it out explicitly…

      I’d say the term tankie is practically synonymous with red fascist. It’s easy for people to understand.

      I have taken to calling them Alt-Left, bc of how they spew disinfo & misinfo and use identical argumentative forms as the Alt-Right - wanting to “win” at any cost, ignoring facts and logic and such in their pursuit of that goal.

      The terms red fascist and tankie are actually real terms, the former first appearing in 1922 and the latter 1956. Fun fact: all those terms were coined by socialists, that were anti stalinist.

      At a very naive guess, the word “fascism” may have a greater emotional impact upon Europeans, while Alt-Right might affect Americans more?

      I wouldn’t know, i’m not either :)

      But a depressing fact of life is that while your regions are close to fascism now, many of us in the developing world already are living in fascism. I had the misfortune of being born in an absolute monarchy that still has slavery (hint: it’s in the arabian peninsula lol) i’d say it’s 100% fascism. Yes, technically it’s not since fascism is a dictatorship, not a monarchy. Fascism is totalitarianism, not autocracy. Fascism is anti-religion, not islamic. But…

      … I’d argue that makes things worse. I’d rather live under a totalitarian dictatorship than an autocratic monarchy. And at least under italian fascism you can’t be executed for apostasy, adultery or be crucified (yes, this is real) for crimes.

      I’d say this gives me a much more emotional reaction to people thinking authoritarianism is a good idea. I guarantee you every single idiot saying that is living under a democracy, never having experienced what authoritarianism really is.

        • fxomt@lemm.ee
          2·
          1 day ago

          True. Only a moron would wish for their own oppression 🙄 If they think authoritarianism’s so great then i’ll be glad to switch lives with them lol.

          I think that they only think that it’s good because they imagine themselves as the high ranking official, and not as the peasant breaking their backs to feed their slavers.

          I like these quotes from john steinbeck, i feel that it describes them a lot:

          Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.

          "Except for the field organizers of strikes, who were pretty tough monkeys and devoted, most of the so-called Communists I met were middle-class, middle-aged people playing a game of dreams. I remember a woman in easy circumstances saying to another even more affluent: ‘After the revolution even we will have more, won’t we, dear?’ Then there was another lover of proletarians who used to raise hell with Sunday picknickers on her property

          “I guess the trouble was that we didn’t have any self-admitted proletarians. Everyone was a temporarily embarrassed capitalist. Maybe the Communists so closely questioned by the investigation committees were a danger to America, but the ones I knew — at least they claimed to be Communists — couldn’t have disrupted a Sunday-school picnic. Besides they were too busy fighting among themselves.”

          • OpenStars@piefed.socialEnglish
            3·
            21 hours ago

            You may be interested in watching The Alt Right Playbook, by Innuendo Studios. I think the one that I am thinking of in particular is There’s Always A Bigger Fish.

            Some people, even poor ones, don’t vote because they think that they will be rich someday - but rather bc they believe that they should be poor, and that the rich should be rich. Possibly they were told this from a religious leader behind a pulpit somewhere, thereby bypassing the normal skeptical thought process (despite the teachings of their own religious texts such as “test EVERYTHING against what you KNOW to be true”, and “the worker deserves their wages”, etc.).

            As a side effect, The Alt Right Playbook will show you the identical tactics used by those on e.g. Hexbear and Lemmy.ml, despite how they are not “Right” but rather (ostensibly) “Left”.

            • fxomt@lemm.ee
              2·
              16 hours ago

              but rather bc they believe that they should be poor, and that the rich should be rich

              Hits close to him tbh, many people around me think that. We are a religious country too as you described lmao.

              Though i don’t think hexbear users are one of them/ml users are one of them, i think they speak too highly of themselves and are too snobby to think that low of themselves lol.

              I did not know of the alt-right playbook, i’ll take a look at it, thank you.

              • OpenStars@piefed.socialEnglish
                3·
                15 hours ago

                I thought that ML was based in France for some reason, but I could be way off base so take with a huge grain of salt there.

                And many people on Hexbear don’t seem to truly “believe” in anything at all, except they like dunking on people. They routinely lie to themselves as well as other site admins, and even piss off people on ML and Grad. Hexbear has even chased off their own developers who maintained their special code fork. It’s just been one long-running downward spiral from the start (much like the USA).

                But ML, yeah, they look to me like true believers - just like MAGATS - each to their respective cause. And for both I say, if only they would read a book (or ten)!? The proof, for me, lies in the lack of self-honesty: “Rule 1” for instance says no such thing as what it continuously ends up being used for, and once you catch someone in one such lie, how then is one supposed to believe anything else that is said, especially in contradiction to our very own eyes? 👀

                So they can say and do whatever they wish of course. And so too can I.

                • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comM
                  3·
                  7 hours ago

                  Hexbear has even chased off their own developers who maintained their special code fork.

                  Oh? I didn’t know that. Where did that happen if you know?

                • fxomt@lemm.ee
                  2·
                  15 hours ago

                  Their whole ideology is a stack of cards on top of a fragile lie. If the lie is called out it all comes crashing down.

                  MLs would think they’d actually be apart of the vanguard, not the enslaved. It’s hilarious, pathetic and sad at the same time. Everyone wants to be a king, but nobody wants to be a peasant, despite them being crucial for a king to exist in the first place. Makes sense, but by this logic we should be all equals, no vanguard, no dictator, no ruling class.

                  • OpenStars@piefed.socialEnglish
                    3·
                    15 hours ago

                    I mean… only if facts actually mattered, which they do not. At least not in terms of them forming their opinions.

                    And the same with MAGATS: studies show that literally different parts of the brain are engaged when espousing these political talking points. Which makes liberals then just as much in the wrong (and arguably far more so) bc KNOWING that… should allow a strategy to deal with those facts? But instead they would rather line their own pockets, then later act all surprised when they get called out for being so extremely “corrupt” - and then the for-profit media is a whole other matter entirely…

                    Btw for true leftist ideals, check out https://slrpnk.net/ and https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/. I personally try to stay out of that depth of political theory but that is my understanding of where to go if I wanted to get into it.:-) What I do know though is that unless people are willing to engage honestly with a topic - ANY topic - there is zero hope to move “forward” in it (except by haphazard random chance, which I’m not counting as “forward” at all). And therefore, all 4 of hexbear.net, lemmygrad.ml, lemmy.ml, and Midwest.social are ruled out, in my book (the latter purely due to their admin, while unlike the other Big Three, the vast majority of their members do not engage in trolling of the rest of the Fediverse).

                    As you say, “one rule for thee while another one for me” never plays well, past kindergarten. I was honestly shocked to see it from supposedly adults in lemmy.ml, although then again it’s easier for me to see their flaws from further away - and crucially, the same holds true in reverse as well.:-) Which I find to be a fantastic charge to do better, at least for myself. I don’t know what good that will do anyone anywhere, but at least my own conscience will be all the clearer for not engaging with a known lie.