No, responsible reporting doesn’t make assumptions about anything even if it’s obvious. And considering the litigiousness of the article’s subjects, it makes sense to fall back on softer, if far less precise, language.
I swear, the demographic of Lemmy has no fucking clue how journalism actually works.
Not offending anyone or fear of lost ad revenue doesn’t enter into it. Journalists are required to use pedantically precise language for the sake of accuracy.
This is why the use of “allegedly” or “person of interest” have become over-used to the point of being punchlines.
Was it a Nazi salute? I’d say it was.
Is there an equally plausible explanation, like she was intentionally trolling people and generally being a basic bitch? Absolutely.
Given that doubt, a journalist, a real journalist, is not going to call it one way or another. Not their job.
Obviously there’s some level of objectivity journalists have to have, but this description of Elon’s Nazi salute is absolutely sane-washing and gives the reader the impression that its all a big hubub.
Laura Smith resigned from the Towamencin Township Board of Supervisors after a video in which she mimicked a gesture made by Elon Musk during a rally related to President Trump’s inauguration. During a speech, Musk held his hand to his chest and then extended his arm saying “my heart goes out to you.” Some said the gesture looked like a Nazi salute, while others said it was a harmless gesture taken out of context.
They could’ve just said
During a speech, Musk held his hand to his chest and then extended his arm, in a similar gesture to a Nazi salute
and they still would’ve been in the realm of objectivity that you describe. But instead, they downplay it all in a single sentence by saying, “Some said the gesture looked like a Nazi salute.” They won’t even bring themselves to say “Many said the gesture looked like a Nazi salute.”
All outlets have to do this sort of shimmy, sure. But we all see the direction that they shimmy, and it’s not toward the direction of truth.
They could have used “alleged Nazi salute”, they didn’t, they used the BS “controversial gesture”. That’s cowardly and white washing behavior helping to normalize the abhorrent behavior.
And no calling a Nazi salute a Nazi salute is not a purity test for fucks sake.
Coming from Germany where a gesture even vaguely similar to a nazi salute is a criminal offence I naturally have a different stance on that. What fascists enjoy doing (and this pattern can be seen all over the word) is provoke with gestures, statements and symbols that look very similar to their fascist equivalent and they always have that smirk. They think it’s very clever. When called out on that of course they feign outrage and again with a slight smirk.
Journalistic integrity needs to recognize these patterns instead of giving the “benefit of the doubt”. They are being played otherwise because there will never be definitive proof if they did it or not.
There are very old posts on American neo-nazi BBSes that instruct users in this exact process. They know exactly what they are doing, even the “aren’t I clever” smirking is part of it.
Interesting. I always thought it was just some kind of a shared mannerism, didn’t expect there to be actual instructions for that. Do you have any more info on that?
I’ve defended ZERO Nazis in my replies. ZERO. Yet, you’re throwing out purity tests and assuming / calling me a collaborator for pointing out journalistic practices.
Its not Godwin’s Law to call a Nazi salute from a man who publicly supports neo-Nazis the world over what it is. That’s just recognizing a fact. CBS could do this with all journalistic integrity intact.
lmao, assumptions. No journalist who says, “Elon did a Nazi salute twice,” is making an assumption. They are reporting the fact that he did a Nazi salute twice on TV. You could maybe argue that a journalist saying, “Elon Musk is a Nazi” would be making an assumption, based on the fact that he did a Nazi salute twice on television. And I’m sure you would argue that, because you certainly sound like a Nazi defender.
But nobody calling Elon’s Nazi salute as they see it is assuming anything. We all saw it and we all know what it was. Even if he didn’t intend for it to look like a Nazi salute, that’s what it was. Anyone trying to make it out that it wasn’t a Nazi salute, tiptoeing around language, is justifying doing the Nazi salute. You are defending the sane-washing of someone doing a Nazi salute. You think responsible reporting is normalizing the Nazi salute by dancing around the word Nazi? Well, then I, a non-journalist who is allowed to make assumptions, will assume you are a Nazi sympathizer.
Meanwhile, Republicans keep claiming things like “BLM and ‘antifa’ [1] burned cities to the ground” and with no consequence for that outrageous lie.
[1] It’s weird how butthurt the qons get about a group that is apparently everywhere, including in the room with them right now, but also against fascism. But don’t call them Nazis!
No, responsible reporting doesn’t make assumptions about anything even if it’s obvious. And considering the litigiousness of the article’s subjects, it makes sense to fall back on softer, if far less precise, language.
I swear, the demographic of Lemmy has no fucking clue how journalism actually works.
Oh please, what utter spineless bullshit, we understand how “journalism” works, can’t offend Nazis because they’ll lose ad revenue.
When journalist won’t call a Nazi salute a fucking Nazi salute then journalism is worthless.
You just keep supporting Nazis while the rest of us actually push back against Nazis.
Source: Married to a journalist.
Not offending anyone or fear of lost ad revenue doesn’t enter into it. Journalists are required to use pedantically precise language for the sake of accuracy.
This is why the use of “allegedly” or “person of interest” have become over-used to the point of being punchlines.
Was it a Nazi salute? I’d say it was.
Is there an equally plausible explanation, like she was intentionally trolling people and generally being a basic bitch? Absolutely.
Given that doubt, a journalist, a real journalist, is not going to call it one way or another. Not their job.
Obviously there’s some level of objectivity journalists have to have, but this description of Elon’s Nazi salute is absolutely sane-washing and gives the reader the impression that its all a big hubub.
They could’ve just said
and they still would’ve been in the realm of objectivity that you describe. But instead, they downplay it all in a single sentence by saying, “Some said the gesture looked like a Nazi salute.” They won’t even bring themselves to say “Many said the gesture looked like a Nazi salute.”
All outlets have to do this sort of shimmy, sure. But we all see the direction that they shimmy, and it’s not toward the direction of truth.
They could have used “alleged Nazi salute”, they didn’t, they used the BS “controversial gesture”. That’s cowardly and white washing behavior helping to normalize the abhorrent behavior.
And no calling a Nazi salute a Nazi salute is not a purity test for fucks sake.
Having watched it, it’s complicated. The arm outstretched with the punchable smirk on her face is definitely Nazi.
Tapping her chest first is not, which is how it falls under “controversial gesture” territory.
It is not 100% Nazi so any reputable journalist isn’t going to call it that.
And that’s just complete BS and why trust in journalism keeps declining.
If you honestly think that not calling a spade a spade is reputable journalism then journalism is worthless.
Journalists have standards above and beyond “random commenter on lemmy”.
Yeah, I get to call a Nazi a fucking asshole Nazi. Journalists should have better standards and spines to use “alleged Nazi”.
Your spouse’s standards are way too low.
It’s not her standards, it’s the standard for anyone with a journalism degree.
Coming from Germany where a gesture even vaguely similar to a nazi salute is a criminal offence I naturally have a different stance on that. What fascists enjoy doing (and this pattern can be seen all over the word) is provoke with gestures, statements and symbols that look very similar to their fascist equivalent and they always have that smirk. They think it’s very clever. When called out on that of course they feign outrage and again with a slight smirk. Journalistic integrity needs to recognize these patterns instead of giving the “benefit of the doubt”. They are being played otherwise because there will never be definitive proof if they did it or not.
There are very old posts on American neo-nazi BBSes that instruct users in this exact process. They know exactly what they are doing, even the “aren’t I clever” smirking is part of it.
Interesting. I always thought it was just some kind of a shared mannerism, didn’t expect there to be actual instructions for that. Do you have any more info on that?
Oh btw, here’s some journalist with some spine and integrity but I guess they’re not real journalist according to you and your spouse.
https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/pennsylvania-laura-smith-towamencin-township-nazi-salute-controversy-elon-musk/4089263/
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/laura-smith-elon-musk-salute_n_6797ced6e4b0792017b78e5e
https://www.newsweek.com/pennsylvania-county-official-resigned-after-salute-video-2021155
https://www.inquirer.com/politics/pennsylvania/adl-nazi-salute-towamencin-supervisor-laura-smith-20250126.html
“It’s just a joke, bro” isn’t an excuse for embracing Nazi symbols. Ironic Nazis are still Nazis.
See? There you go.
I’ve defended ZERO Nazis in my replies. ZERO. Yet, you’re throwing out purity tests and assuming / calling me a collaborator for pointing out journalistic practices.
JFC Lemmy is Godwin’s Law all the way down.
Its not Godwin’s Law to call a Nazi salute from a man who publicly supports neo-Nazis the world over what it is. That’s just recognizing a fact. CBS could do this with all journalistic integrity intact.
Godwin’s Law was suspended back in 2015 when the qons went all-in on donvict.
Pathetic.
lmao, assumptions. No journalist who says, “Elon did a Nazi salute twice,” is making an assumption. They are reporting the fact that he did a Nazi salute twice on TV. You could maybe argue that a journalist saying, “Elon Musk is a Nazi” would be making an assumption, based on the fact that he did a Nazi salute twice on television. And I’m sure you would argue that, because you certainly sound like a Nazi defender.
But nobody calling Elon’s Nazi salute as they see it is assuming anything. We all saw it and we all know what it was. Even if he didn’t intend for it to look like a Nazi salute, that’s what it was. Anyone trying to make it out that it wasn’t a Nazi salute, tiptoeing around language, is justifying doing the Nazi salute. You are defending the sane-washing of someone doing a Nazi salute. You think responsible reporting is normalizing the Nazi salute by dancing around the word Nazi? Well, then I, a non-journalist who is allowed to make assumptions, will assume you are a Nazi sympathizer.
We know how it works, we’re saying it shouldn’t work that way. Is that not obvious?
He’s some irresponsible reporting.
https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/pennsylvania-laura-smith-towamencin-township-nazi-salute-controversy-elon-musk/4089263/
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/laura-smith-elon-musk-salute_n_6797ced6e4b0792017b78e5e
https://www.newsweek.com/pennsylvania-county-official-resigned-after-salute-video-2021155
https://www.inquirer.com/politics/pennsylvania/adl-nazi-salute-towamencin-supervisor-laura-smith-20250126.html
Meanwhile, Republicans keep claiming things like “BLM and ‘antifa’ [1] burned cities to the ground” and with no consequence for that outrageous lie.
[1] It’s weird how butthurt the qons get about a group that is apparently everywhere, including in the room with them right now, but also against fascism. But don’t call them Nazis!