DW is run by the German government to further the image of Germany abroad.
The mere fact that the government refuses to acknowledge the ICCs competence to issue the warrant and the obligation to enforce it as a member state, instead saying it needs to examine first, is an attack on the court.
When pressed on the matter in todays press conference they said the ICCs jurisdiction to be " not uncontested" despite the ICC having ruled this in 2021. And stating Germanys historical responsibility and calling arrests “hypothetical” and “difficult to imagine” show a warped understanding of what courts and laws are.
There is no exception. There is no individual alteration by a state. The orders of the court are to be respected and enforced if possible.
This is an “only yes means yes” kind of situation.
Be that as it may, the headline with its convenient won’t is clickbait. Not only is the current German government on its way out, there is also no planned Netanyahu visit, and the answer given was as muddied as possible.
You’re reading that “examinate” in a very specific way. Baerbock says:
“We abide by the law at the national, European, and international level,” she said. “And that is why we are now examining exactly what this means for us in terms of its international application.”
She didn’t say “we’ll examine whether we’re bound to arrest him”, in fact she implicitly said the opposite (“we abide by law”) but “we are examining what it means for us”. As in: They’re looking into how to tell the Israelis that nope, Netanyahu better not come over because the government can’t give him diplomatic immunity when the courts would rather have him arrested. If Netanyahu wants to he could make a scene out of that and how to deal with that kind of situation is, well, what diplomats get paid for. What’s for sure is that Germany won’t spring a trap on him, saying he can come but then arresting him.
Ideally, Israel will extradite him once he’s out of office, or just plainly try him themselves. How to tell the Israelis that that’s indeed the best move they could make (not the left they would happily string up Bibi themselves but people like Gantz) is another thing worth examination.
Diring the press conference yesterday the government speaker Hebestreit said that an “examination” is necessary as the jurisdiction of the ICC would be “not uncontested” despite this having been discussed and ruled by the court in 2021. When asked what Germany did in those three years he said they havent declared to recognise that ruling hence now they have to examine…
Here is the conference to watch. The arrest warrants come up at around minute 4
When asked what Germany did in those three years he said they havent declared to recognise that ruling hence now they have to examine…
Yes. They have to examine exactly how that intersects with German law and what procedure will have to be adhered to.
If you watched that conference you might’ve noticed that they were very clear about Germany sticking to the ICC statutes and the rule of law, while completely avoiding talking about that might mean in concrete terms regarding Netanyahu. That means “Yes we’d arrest him if he’s stupid enough to come here which is the reason he won’t also please stop asking we don’t want any more of a diplomatic headache on a tightrope”.
What about “Germany considers ICC rulings binding” did you not understand. They said it loud and clear. Contrast that to, say, the US, where Biden is on record saying that the ICC lost its marbles (or something to that effect).
That is not what they said. They have questioned the jurisdiction of the ICC, explivtly saying that they didnt make any comment towards acknowledging it since the ruling in 2021.
There is also no procedural problem that would have to be solved. If he is on German soil police arrests him and he gets extradited to the Netherlands. There is well established procedures in regards to international arrest warrents for normal criminals. It is a farce.
Saying they are among the greatest supporter of the court doesnt mean shit, if they cannot directly say that they will uphold a specific ruling.
And the specific ruling is extraordinarily clear. If Netanyahu, Gallant or Deif (if he is still alive) are within German jurisdictiom they have to be arrested and handed over to the ICC.
There is no hypotheticals or ambiguity. Saying there is any and denying to explicitly state upholding this ruling by executing the warrants is denial of it.
And it is a very strong oppositiom to the court, contrary to what the spokespeople claim.
They have questioned the jurisdiction of the ICC, explivtly saying that they didnt make any comment towards acknowledging it since the ruling in 2021
Yes because to comment on it they would first have to examine it. Which they didn’t do yet because if they did then the journalists would’ve asked about the results and waffling would have become harder.
Saying they are among the greatest supporter of the court doesnt mean shit, if they cannot directly say that they will uphold a specific ruling.
That’s not how Germany works. Germany ratified the ICC treaty, and the government is bound by law. There’s no legal wiggle room, it is literally not up to the government whether Netanyahu gets arrested should he set foot on German soil, it’s a decision of the courts, which will follow the law.
The government spokespeople made it abundantly, repeatedly, clear, that Germany sticks to the ICC treaty and the rule of law. The rest they don’t want to talk about because it’s a) hypothetical, Netanyahu won’t visit Germany and b) a diplomatic headache.
It is not a matter of a German court to do the arrest. It is a matter of the Police, which is part of the executive branch and hence under the government.
First off, most police in Germany isn’t federal. Secondly, guess who decides on matters of arrest and extradition. It isn’t the police, or executive in general.
I mean they can play games with e.g. the federal prosecutor (a political civil servant) not wanting to prosecute which will then invariably lead to someone opening a case against him for obstruction of punishment (being a political appointee doesn’t mean you don’t need to follow law) which if nothing else will lead to a court deciding on the merits of Netanyahu’s arrest but that’s all a clown show. It won’t happen because the foreign service will tell the Israelis, in no unclear terms, that Netanyahu is well-advised to not step foot on German soil.
You seriously think Bibi would gamble getting extradited to the ICC over a political play? For what fucking ends. Even if what you allege is true and the government would do everything in its power to prevent that, for which it really has no reason (nor political backing from the people) the ambiguity of the situation will keep him from risking it.
Here a less sensationalist headline and more nuanced article:
Would Benjamin Netanyahu be arrested in Germany?
DW is run by the German government to further the image of Germany abroad.
The mere fact that the government refuses to acknowledge the ICCs competence to issue the warrant and the obligation to enforce it as a member state, instead saying it needs to examine first, is an attack on the court.
When pressed on the matter in todays press conference they said the ICCs jurisdiction to be " not uncontested" despite the ICC having ruled this in 2021. And stating Germanys historical responsibility and calling arrests “hypothetical” and “difficult to imagine” show a warped understanding of what courts and laws are.
There is no exception. There is no individual alteration by a state. The orders of the court are to be respected and enforced if possible.
This is an “only yes means yes” kind of situation.
Be that as it may, the headline with its convenient won’t is clickbait. Not only is the current German government on its way out, there is also no planned Netanyahu visit, and the answer given was as muddied as possible.
You’re reading that “examinate” in a very specific way. Baerbock says:
She didn’t say “we’ll examine whether we’re bound to arrest him”, in fact she implicitly said the opposite (“we abide by law”) but “we are examining what it means for us”. As in: They’re looking into how to tell the Israelis that nope, Netanyahu better not come over because the government can’t give him diplomatic immunity when the courts would rather have him arrested. If Netanyahu wants to he could make a scene out of that and how to deal with that kind of situation is, well, what diplomats get paid for. What’s for sure is that Germany won’t spring a trap on him, saying he can come but then arresting him.
Ideally, Israel will extradite him once he’s out of office, or just plainly try him themselves. How to tell the Israelis that that’s indeed the best move they could make (not the left they would happily string up Bibi themselves but people like Gantz) is another thing worth examination.
Diring the press conference yesterday the government speaker Hebestreit said that an “examination” is necessary as the jurisdiction of the ICC would be “not uncontested” despite this having been discussed and ruled by the court in 2021. When asked what Germany did in those three years he said they havent declared to recognise that ruling hence now they have to examine…
Here is the conference to watch. The arrest warrants come up at around minute 4
https://youtube.com/watch?v=NRl3X5nN4R4
Yes. They have to examine exactly how that intersects with German law and what procedure will have to be adhered to.
If you watched that conference you might’ve noticed that they were very clear about Germany sticking to the ICC statutes and the rule of law, while completely avoiding talking about that might mean in concrete terms regarding Netanyahu. That means “Yes we’d arrest him if he’s stupid enough to come here which is the reason he won’t also please stop asking we don’t want any more of a diplomatic headache on a tightrope”.
What about “Germany considers ICC rulings binding” did you not understand. They said it loud and clear. Contrast that to, say, the US, where Biden is on record saying that the ICC lost its marbles (or something to that effect).
That is not what they said. They have questioned the jurisdiction of the ICC, explivtly saying that they didnt make any comment towards acknowledging it since the ruling in 2021.
There is also no procedural problem that would have to be solved. If he is on German soil police arrests him and he gets extradited to the Netherlands. There is well established procedures in regards to international arrest warrents for normal criminals. It is a farce.
Saying they are among the greatest supporter of the court doesnt mean shit, if they cannot directly say that they will uphold a specific ruling.
And the specific ruling is extraordinarily clear. If Netanyahu, Gallant or Deif (if he is still alive) are within German jurisdictiom they have to be arrested and handed over to the ICC.
There is no hypotheticals or ambiguity. Saying there is any and denying to explicitly state upholding this ruling by executing the warrants is denial of it.
And it is a very strong oppositiom to the court, contrary to what the spokespeople claim.
Yes because to comment on it they would first have to examine it. Which they didn’t do yet because if they did then the journalists would’ve asked about the results and waffling would have become harder.
That’s not how Germany works. Germany ratified the ICC treaty, and the government is bound by law. There’s no legal wiggle room, it is literally not up to the government whether Netanyahu gets arrested should he set foot on German soil, it’s a decision of the courts, which will follow the law.
The government spokespeople made it abundantly, repeatedly, clear, that Germany sticks to the ICC treaty and the rule of law. The rest they don’t want to talk about because it’s a) hypothetical, Netanyahu won’t visit Germany and b) a diplomatic headache.
It is not a matter of a German court to do the arrest. It is a matter of the Police, which is part of the executive branch and hence under the government.
First off, most police in Germany isn’t federal. Secondly, guess who decides on matters of arrest and extradition. It isn’t the police, or executive in general.
I mean they can play games with e.g. the federal prosecutor (a political civil servant) not wanting to prosecute which will then invariably lead to someone opening a case against him for obstruction of punishment (being a political appointee doesn’t mean you don’t need to follow law) which if nothing else will lead to a court deciding on the merits of Netanyahu’s arrest but that’s all a clown show. It won’t happen because the foreign service will tell the Israelis, in no unclear terms, that Netanyahu is well-advised to not step foot on German soil.
You seriously think Bibi would gamble getting extradited to the ICC over a political play? For what fucking ends. Even if what you allege is true and the government would do everything in its power to prevent that, for which it really has no reason (nor political backing from the people) the ambiguity of the situation will keep him from risking it.
Removed by mod
Wanting to uphold international law and clearly supporting the institutions of international law is terrorism now?
Wanting war crimes to be prevented and punished is terrorism now?
Not wanting millions of people to be starved, ethnically cleansed or murdered is terrorism now?
So a nice way of saying that Germany is not going to arrest him.
A Murdoch owned paper, I cringe everytime people share the telegraph