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- cross-posted to:
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“He’s doing a good job,” Trump saidabout the Israeli leader. “Biden is trying to hold him back, just so you understand, Biden is more superior to the VP. He’s trying to hold him back, and he probably should be doing the opposite, actually. I’m glad that Netanyahu decided to do what he had to do, but it’s moving along pretty good.”
This is ignorant as fuck. First of all, there is no more reliable group of voters in the country than progressives. Not even MAGA members have shown up at polls as reliably for Republicans as the left has for Democrats. Still, the Democratic establishment whines about leftists staying home to excuse their pathetic losses, and morons eat it up.
Also, even if there were any kind of truth to this narrative, trying to win an election by shaming voters is dumb as fuck. No voter who is as fickle as you think the left is, is going to decide to show up because you shouted insults at them. This isn’t a strategy to win elections, it’s a strategy to excuse losing them.
It’s not “left” voters saying they will stay home, not in significant numbers. It’s Muslim voters or, more precisely, it’s voters who know the names of the people being systematically slaughtered with US weapons. While I agree that voting Democrat is the best bad option for Palestinians, I can’t get behind shaming someone for not voting to elect someone unrepentantly responsible for blowing up their loved ones. If they can’t stomach voting for Harris, I don’t blame them.
There are a bunch of “leftists” on lemmy arguing till the cows come home that leftists mustn’t vote for the Democrats on the grounds that Kamala Harris is personally responsible for genocide in Gaza, who are able to both-sides any and every criticism of the Republicans. They advocate not voting and voting third parties, anything, really, as long as anyone with a conscience over Gaza excludes themselves from affecting whether Kamala Harris or Donald Trump becomes president. They argue that losing to the right wingers will push them left, but I think it’ll drag them to the right where the votes are, and that if you withhold your vote when the alternative is someone who promised to be dictator on day one (and more recently says he’ll send the military to deal with “the enemy within”, which is apparently left wing folk), your vote isn’t winnable anyway and you’ve excluded yourself from the very effect on voting you claim to be having, but none of that makes any difference to the people calling themselves leftists who want trump to win.
I think you nailed it with “leftists”. The comment I responded to didn’t bother with the quotes.
The whole point of this obvious right wing psy-op is to drive a wedge between liberals and leftists. When liberals don’t distinguish between “leftists” and leftists, it plays right into their hands.
These operatives are running a two pronged attack. They aren’t just impersonating leftists, they also imitate liberals preaching from their high horses like Hillary Clinton on steroids. Liberals should take care not to do that work for them.
I advocate firmly for my friends and family to vote for Harris. But I can’t support genocide, so my ballot will not include a vote for president.
So you’re happy to let Donald “finish them” “best king of Israel” “Biden shouldn’t try to hold Netanyahu back, he should do the opposite” Trump lead the western world?!? I think you really need to reexamine the effect of your actions.
I suppose if that is the only two options then whatever, I’m not voting for the lesser of two genocides, but I’m also truly sorry if that offends you. There are many other ballot options for me to consider
I hope Kamala wins, but it is her own fault if she loses against trump
The democrats can recruits millions from the current generation if they just change their policy in one or two simple ways look at the numbers
“I hope the cancer doesn’t kill me, but I won’t do any of the things my doctor recommends to help fight it.”
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If you’re leaving your ballot blank you’re not the base.
And yes, Trump and Harris are the only two choices with any chance of winning. And nobody is going to think you’re clever for not voting when Project 2025 is being enacted.
Too bad I guess. I vote for politicians who listen to their constituents when making policy decisions.
Sounds to me like you don’t know much about the democratic base
When the election is over, what will you call people who don’t want the US to support genocide when you can’t call them all trumpers?
The logical error implicit in your question is that allowing Donald “finish them” Trump to win is obviously worse for Gaza, so I don’t believe for a minute that anyone calling for folks to exclude themselves from affecting whether the country gets Trump or Harris in the White House actually cares about Gaza at all, even a little bit.
I’m still voting for Harris, and have never advocated for not voting, voting third party, or voting for trump. You’ve ignored this multiple times because it’s contrary to your “anti-genocide = pro-trump” narrative.
Where did you find yourself in what I said?
Guess I was wrong about you being able to admit mistakes as well.
I genuinely think I didn’t say anything about you, except when I mistakenly thought you claimed you pretended to advocate for third parties. It’s the advocating for throwing away your vote that I always object to.
So I’m asking where I said something where you felt criticised as secretly pro trump, because unless you advocated that principled folk throw away their vote, I don’t think I did.
Anti-Harris = Pro-Trump
Anti-genocide != anti-Harris, but every genocide supporter interprets it so because they don’t want the genocide to stop until it’s complete.
That’s not my narrative AT ALL. My narrative is that the people who argue that caring about Gaza or caring about left wing issues means you should exclude yourself from deciding between Kamala Harris and Donald “best King of Israel” Trump aren’t really left wing or pro Gaza people at all, they’re trumpers trying to suppress left wing votes. Tindiril seemed not to realise they exist, but the rest of the thread has them out in spades. I’ve never taken issue with people hating what’s going on in Gaza and spreading to Lebanon, I just keep pointing out that allowing Trump back in the White House will be worse for Gaza and worse for anything left wing.
You know I’m not one of those people. And yet, since you can’t abide anyone being unhappy about genocide, you keep pretending I am.
Well, if you pretend to support Trump winning, maybe don’t take offence when people criticise you for advocating for Trump.
Edit: I misread “you keep pretending” as “I keep pretending”, which completely changed the meaning!
I never did that. Not once. Why do you keep lying about anyone who doesn’t support genocide?
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The only thing you consider good faith is support for the wholesale murder of every last Palestinian.
Won’t matter, we all know that most of you won’t be around then.
Why is that? What are you implying?
Make your bullshit accusation overtly.
So you can report me? Not on your life. I know your game, bud.
So you just admitted that you’re calling me something that breaks the community rules.
Nope. I just implied that you’re clearly fishing to report because it’s pretty well known that you do exactly that.
The topic is gone man. You’ve managed to successfully derail yet another discussion without even having explain your broken reasoning. Well played, but… I’m going to go ahead and take the high road out.
You have a fantastic evening for yourself!
Enjoy the genocide, not that you need encouragement.
Yeah, super ignorant take that purported lefties on Lemmy are playing spoiler under the guise of condemning genocide.
The post was for astroturfing fucks on Lemmy. Way to miss the point.
Read your comment that I responded to. There is no indication whatsoever that you aren’t among the large contingency that actually thinks these freaks are leftists. When you mimic idiotic Democratic establishment talking points, you will get treated like a Democratic establishment idiot.
Way to fail to make the point.
Thanks for telling me what my point was, dipshit.
Dude, it was you who claimed I “missed the point” and explained what your point was. Had you not originally buried your point in sarcasm that was indistinguishable from Democratic establishment douchebagery this might have been a very different conversation.
Right wing operatives are trying to drive wedges and your playing right into their strategy. Most of the “undecided” rhetoric comes from or is amplified by right wing bots, as does the worst of the establishment scolding. I’m all for calling out the trolls, as long as your not doing their work by not making it clear who your attacking.
We want the same thing in November, but I don’t think your attitude is helping us get there.
To be clear - the “leftists” I mentioned above aren’t really leftists. Next time I’ll add the /s next to it to be clear. The whole point of the post was to call out bad faith actors.
Then you came in missing the point.
Now as I understand it, you’re suggesting I word my posts better so you catch the sarcasm?
Nah, fam. Thanks though.
You decline, but at least putting “leftists” in quotes is an improvement.
If you can’t be distinguished from the bad faith posts other bots make purporting to be liberals, I guess you’ll just save them the trouble of doing it themselves.
Agree to disagree then. Thanks for the exchange.
Democrats are losing to a multiple convicted felon con man who can’t form complete sentences
But they refuse to change anything in their campaign while they attack their own base and try to shame them into voting dem. It’s really pathetic.
Oh, I agree. Every time Hillary pops her head up this is what she does, and Obama is only better because he knows how to be subtle.
On the other hand, right wing trolls are also driving this message, and being even more obnoxious than Hillary.
The pattern through all of modern history is one of liberals failing to address rising fascism because socialism is what scares them more. Then the fascists win, the system implodes because fascists are incompetent, maybe a few million people die, then the liberals return to start the cycle over. It’s pathetic that liberals can’t stop repeating this tragedy over and over again.